Thousands dead in unmarked graves from Canadian Residential Schools

[MeanSeanBean]

14 minutes ago, Alflives said:

 

What was the government’s purpose for having these residential schools?  Sure appears the purpose was to eliminate the Indian way of life.  They forced the Indian children out of their community and into a place where they were taught how not to be Indian.  

Assimilation. The entire propose of the schools was to eliminate the first Nations way and to assimilate indigenous youth into Canadian society. More then 150,000 kids were forced into this in attempt to erase First Nation culture.

[MeanSeanBean]

9 minutes ago, Alflives said:

We know the government attempted to ‘murder’ (through these schools) the Indian culture.  Do we know if these burial sites were murdered persons?  Murder by neglect?  Murder by circumstance?  

All of the above likely. While the schools were active they reported over 3,200 deaths of kids in their care. Most of the deaths came from disease caused by poor living conditions and neglect. Those are the reported deaths. We have searched 7 of the 139 schools and found 1,500 more unreported deaths. The amount of kids that these schools killed is astronomical.

 

The amount of damage it did, and is still doing to the Indigenous community is overwhelming. There is a book by Mark Wolynn on inherited trauma that describes how traumatic experiences can live on for generations past the actual event. We still have a long way to go before we can start to overcome what happened to those kids. 

Edited July 2, 2021 by shayster007

[Alflives]

6 minutes ago, shayster007 said:

Assimilation. The entire propose of the schools was to eliminate the first Nations way and to assimilate indigenous youth into Canadian society. More then 150,000 kids were forced into this in attempt to erase First Nation culture.

Considering how Europeans have screwed up the natural balance of our environment, maybe it should have been all non aboriginal Canadians being educated in the Indian ways? 

[MeanSeanBean]

Just now, Alflives said:

Considering how Europeans have screwed up the natural balance of our environment, maybe it should have been all non aboriginal Canadians being educated in the Indian ways? 

While I see where your coming from, I can't agree with that either. No one should be forced into assimilation. In a perfect world we can all celebrate each other, and the different cultures that people bring to a community. I don't think we are anywhere close to that yet, but I would love to be alive when/if the world every reaches that point.

[spur1]

17 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

I read the Cranbrook school closed in the 1970's

When was the last school closed? I'm curious how recent these events may have happened. There are some that seem to comment as though it was in the distance past.

 

Doesn't seem that long ago to me. 

Seems like yesterday to me in some ways. I was in grade 8 when the native kids started coming to the “white” school from St Eugene. Needless to say they faced an unhealthy amount of racism. However there were many white kids who treated them as equals. 
I was however unaware of much of the abuse. Sexual abuse was not talked about at all. Even homosexuals were unheard of. What I was aware of is that the Nuns who worked at the school were  rather mean as us white catholic kids got them for 2 weeks for catholic indoctrination in the summer. 
I have considered myself a recovering catholic for many years. 

[RogersTowell]

11 minutes ago, Alflives said:

We know the government attempted to ‘murder’ (through these schools) the Indian culture.  Do we know if these burial sites were murdered persons?  Murder by neglect?  Murder by circumstance?  

There is information on the cause of death for many of the indigenous children.  A great many died from disease, but those deaths were dramatically increased by the neglect in terms of nutrition and health care.  The abuse led to many deaths as well, not just directly, but also in terms of inter-generational trauma.  It was a horrific period in Canadian history that we should all be ashamed of.

 

The Catholic church has hidden records relating to the circumstances surrounding many of these deaths and those responsible.  They have also reneged on an obligation to pay (was it) 28 million in reparations, claiming financial hardship.  In the meantime, one of their congregations has built religious edifices of a greater value.  Their behaviour has been more than deplorable.

 

While I don't agree with the burning of churches or statues, neither will I judge someone who's pain drove them to such desperate measures.  For sure the church could have done much in terms of reconciliation in order to avoid this anger.  Here's hoping that moving forward we will have fewer platitudes and more action to bring reconciliation and healing on a subject that should rightfully horrify any Canadian.

[MeanSeanBean]

2 minutes ago, RogersTowell said:

There is information on the cause of death for many of the indigenous children.  A great many died from disease, but those deaths were dramatically increased by the neglect in terms of nutrition and health care.  The abuse led to many deaths as well, not just directly, but also in terms of inter-generational trauma.  It was a horrific period in Canadian history that we should all be ashamed of.

 

The Catholic church has hidden records relating to the circumstances surrounding many of these deaths and those responsible.  They have also reneged on an obligation to pay (was it) 28 million in reparations, claiming financial hardship.  In the meantime, one of their congregations has built religious edifices of a greater value.  Their behaviour has been more than deplorable.

 

While I don't agree with the burning of churches or statues, neither will I judge someone who's pain drove them to such desperate measures.  For sure the church could have done much in terms of reconciliation in order to avoid this anger.  Here's hoping that moving forward we will have fewer platitudes and more action to bring reconciliation and healing on a subject that should rightfully horrify any Canadian.

Great post RT, I agree wholeheartedly.

[Dazzle]

40 minutes ago, ChuckNORRIS4Cup said:

So you and others who are questioning my opinion are going to try and say this was not a race motivated issue? Not a certain race is being targeted at all? Not like someone has ever done that before... but god forbid if you or anyone tries to compare to them now, you're just exaggerating and you're now allowed to think like that. Get out of here, you and others are not going to tell me how I can feel on the situation, especially when a race is being targeted similar to how other races have been targeted before in the past because of how they look. 

 

If anything what you people are doing is worse, by trying to ignore the similarities to almost not tarish the country or something, are you trying to make it not look as bad or something on purpose? Are you trying to make excuses for them now that it's not as bad or something? Just because they weren't labeled as bad for Canada, it's not as bad as what someone else did now? 

 

And just because they didn't use the same techniques as someone else, the motive is the exact same though, so I don't see why it would be different, it's race motivated.

What a joke. If you can't handle a contending opinion that challenges your own view, maybe you shouldn't hold the opinion in the first place, since your ego is so fragile.

 

Talking to me in this 'tone' shows me that you have no ability to comprehend concepts of scale.

 

First off, "race motivated" is a problematic term for many reasons. Indigenous people aren't a race. They are a collection of groups from different backgrounds that are all under the umbrella term 'indigenous'. Likewise, Jewish people are not a 'race'. We use these labels to help us understand things, but when you start introducing concepts of 'race', you ignore the shades in between.

 

Secondly, I never ignored the similarities. myself and others have challenged them. You're the one that isn't able to demonstrate any level of comprehension and rationality.

[King Heffy]

3 minutes ago, RogersTowell said:

There is information on the cause of death for many of the indigenous children.  A great many died from disease, but those deaths were dramatically increased by the neglect in terms of nutrition and health care.  The abuse led to many deaths as well, not just directly, but also in terms of inter-generational trauma.  It was a horrific period in Canadian history that we should all be ashamed of.

 

The Catholic church has hidden records relating to the circumstances surrounding many of these deaths and those responsible.  They have also reneged on an obligation to pay (was it) 28 million in reparations, claiming financial hardship.  In the meantime, one of their congregations has built religious edifices of a greater value.  Their behaviour has been more than deplorable.

 

While I don't agree with the burning of churches or statues, neither will I judge someone who's pain drove them to such desperate measures.  For sure the church could have done much in terms of reconciliation in order to avoid this anger.  Here's hoping that moving forward we will have fewer platitudes and more action to bring reconciliation and healing on a subject that should rightfully horrify any Canadian.

We can start by repealing the tax exemption for the church, and using those funds to help pay the debt.

[Dazzle]

52 minutes ago, ChuckNORRIS4Cup said:

There's a lot of questions that need to be addressed and looked at, this is something that's going to take some time unfortunately, and the more they uncover, the more questions that'll be asked. I'm really livid though at the people who murdered these people, just angers me.

For your information, maybe because I'm a history student, people like us already realized the effects of residential school system and/or colonialism on indigenous people. The real issue is that not everyone is being taught the same way, so people like you 'think' this is new news. It's really not.

 

The conditions within the residential school system are well-known to be poor. As I said, there was a whistleblower named Dr. Peter Bryce who was aware of the conditions.

 

The genocide aspect comes from how indigenous people have been treated. For instance, the destruction of their culture (i.e. forbidding the use of language at these schools, no dancing, etc) was a way for the Canadian governments/people to turn these 'barbaric people' (not my words, just how they were seen by racists back then) into people who were 'civilized' (also not my words). The result? Deaths due to maltreatment, including sexual assaults and death. There's also a bunch of kids that tried to run away from these schools.

 

Canada, as a whole, has not retold the history well, so not everyone is entitled to the same kind of realization that some of us do. It's really not so simple. You are going to find good and bad things in history. You cannot just cherrypick one event and compare it recklessly with another 'big' event from another country that was predicated on an entirely different platform (i.e. Hitler in Germany) That is how you distort events into something they are not.

 

More accurately, Canada's residential schools were social and political attempts to convert indigenous people into being 'Canadian'. This involved 'killing' their cultures. It failed badly. I don't understand how you can draw this comparison to Hitler. Sure there may be similarities, but the comparisons are not close enough to be worth mentioning.

Edited July 2, 2021 by Dazzle

[Gurn]

9 minutes ago, RogersTowell said:

  It was a horrific period in Canadian history that we should all be ashamed of.

Horrible things happened, those that did it should be tracked down and charged; but I feel no shame.

I did not do this.

I bear guilt  and shame only for  some of my own actions.

[CBH1926]

1 hour ago, DeNiro said:

The Catholic Church has been doing this for hundreds of years. This is as much of a black mark on them as any one country.

 

Yes Canada played its role but the church needs to accept the blame here too.

I don’t disagree with the first part of your statement but also most of it would not be possible without the “blessing” of Canada.

 

 

 

[Dazzle]

6 minutes ago, gurn said:

Horrible things happened, those that did it should be tracked down and charged; but I feel no shame.

I did not do this.

I bear guilt  and shame only for  some of my own actions.

Exactly. We, as Canadians, are horrified by the events, but this does not mean there is a 'white man guilt'. We have to be cognizant that this goes beyond 'race'. Indigenous groups are not a race.

People who say this is "race motivated" are oversimplifying history.

[RUPERTKBD]

2 hours ago, Kootenay Gold said:

I am 70 and had no inkling that this was happening till I was well into my 40`s and even then had no idea how extensive the abuse was.

When I was a kid, we had a cabin on Fraser Lake. We used to drive past Lejac all the time in the summer, but none of us had any idea what went on i there. As far as we knew, it was just a boarding school.

 

I was well into adulthood when I learned the truth....(I'm 60 now)

[RUPERTKBD]

2 hours ago, ChuckNORRIS4Cup said:

This is like Hitler stuff imo, taking a race and trying to eliminate them, it's bad very bad, and it's going to leave a mark on Canada for a very long time. 

Nah. It's more like The Borg....

[ChuckNORRIS4Cup]

From 4 years ago history....

 

 

[bishopshodan]

1 minute ago, RUPERTKBD said:

Nah. It's more like The Borg....

So, not the Daleks.

[Dazzle]

4 minutes ago, ChuckNORRIS4Cup said:

From 4 years ago history....

 

 

Great. Linking a 47 minute documentary without any opinions of your own on this. Not a single summary from you.

 

'This' type of information exchange is meaningless. If you don't understand what you're watching or reading, you are essentially regurgitating what you are told. That's not learning.

Edited July 2, 2021 by Dazzle

[ChuckNORRIS4Cup]

18 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

What a joke. If you can't handle a contending opinion that challenges your own view, maybe you shouldn't hold the opinion in the first place, since your ego is so fragile.

 

Talking to me in this 'tone' shows me that you have no ability to comprehend concepts of scale.

 

First off, "race motivated" is a problematic term for many reasons. Indigenous people aren't a race. They are a collection of groups from different backgrounds that are all under the umbrella term 'indigenous'. Likewise, Jewish people are not a 'race'. We use these labels to help us understand things, but when you start introducing concepts of 'race', you ignore the shades in between.

 

Secondly, I never ignored the similarities. myself and others have challenged them. You're the one that isn't able to demonstrate any level of comprehension and rationality.

What a joke is right, isn't that why you quoted me in the first place...

 

Talking in that tone.... Well when someone else talks in a tone trying to change someone else's opinion because it's not the same as theirs definitely calls for a tone, but I guess you're just used to trying to change and control people's opinions, go figure and can't handle them still not agreeing with your ideas.

 

Whatever you say bud 

[MeanSeanBean]

4 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

Great. Linking a 47 minute documentary without any opinions of your own on this. Not a single summary from you.

 

"This" type of information exchange is meaningless. If you don't understand what you're watching or reading, you are essentially regurgitating what you are told. Does that mean you understand the concepts and themes involved?

So far, I have seen no evidence of this from you.

Dude, he posted a documentary on the subject at hand. This seems like the exact type of discussion that I was trying to open up by starting this thread. I started a thread so people can share information on subject that many Canadians have not had enough exposure to. I for one will definitely be watching that video later when I have time.

Edited July 2, 2021 by shayster007