(Discussion) What would we have to give up to get the 2022 and 2023 1st round picks from Buffalo?

[eeeeergh]

7 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Ok calm down guys/gals, let's keep it civil.   This is an out of the box proposal, who cares if the value is off, that's a pretty different idea.  

 

Problem with anything regarding Buffalo is Eichel and Skinner.   One needs surgery or a long re-hab ala Gary Roberts style, and few people on the planet including pro athletes can do what he did.    Skinner absolutely needs to at least provide 5-6 million value or they are hooped.   Might as well keep their picks and start over IMO.   A tough thing given that means another 5-7 years for the team.   But the right thing is rarely the easy thing, case in point what JB did last off season. 

Yeah its a good point about Skinner. I think someone will take a chance on Eichel, but Skinner.. nah. 
And if they are screwed for the next 5 years, you're right - they may as well keep their chances of landing 2 generational talents. 

[IBatch]

1 minute ago, eeeeergh said:

Yeah its a good point about Skinner. I think someone will take a chance on Eichel, but Skinner.. nah. 
And if they are screwed for the next 5 years, you're right - they may as well keep their chances of landing 2 generational talents. 

We had too.  Skinner is a massive disappointment for their fans im sure but i'm not sure he's going the way of LE or not.  Teams really need to be careful with contracts over 5 years with UFAs.    One of the reason i hate the b!thing about Myers is first off he's not nearly as bad as some think he is,  WAR can go shove it, no way Alex freaking Steen was better then Crosby in his peak prime but they tried to spin it like he was lol.  Myers has three whole years left.   Too bad he wasn't 25 and we didn't have him until he was 33.    Our D is whack.   

 

Buffalo could surprise out of the blue if things start clicking.    Skinner must be feeling pretty darn embarrassed at this point.   LE should be too.   Total shame.   Kind of sucks part of the cap era.   If there was zero cap no one would complain about anyone.    The players win in the end though.   Salary disclosure changed the entire game.  

[IBatch]

55 minutes ago, Rick Blight said:

You would have to give up Hughes AND Petterson just to get Buffalo to enter into negotiations.

I'm not so sure about that.   First off Buffalo couldn't afford them.   Heck we can barely do that.   I've said it a dozen or so times now, the team could turn the corner and start competing now if we made two hard trades.   Our 9th overall for Reinhardt is fair value for one guaranteed year.   Maybe add a little if he re-signs (which for sure he will).  Then trade QHs.   Instead of spending the next couple of years trying to make it work with him,  trade him now.   This is about opening the window now.  Ekblad is at the top of the list, then maybe Chychrun, then maybe .... Dobson  plus. Make an offer.    If our R side is weak and our L side is strong then go for it.    Sure Chychrun is  LHD so he'd be at the bottom.     If Rathbone can do 80% of what QHs does .... then utilize it. 

 

 

Edit:   BTW it's not really my first choice but i like the idea a lot.    First choice is to sign both EP and QHs to bridge deals.     Then see how next year goes.   We might need to re-.set around both these guys, Hogs and Podz can't be ignored either, same as OJ, Woo, Rathbone, MD, even Gads and Lind.

 

My preference is to just sign both EP and QHs to bridges...one year apart.   See how it goes and then decide what to do next off season.  Keep it simple this year.   Just like last year.   Let the cap shed.   Find out what we have left in the pool (If Podz is the best of the bunch we are sorted for the forward group!).   And then choose if we should re-set like COL did.   Move 2 of Miller, Horvat, BB.    

Edited July 3, 2021 by IBatch

[eeeeergh]

2 minutes ago, IBatch said:

We had too.  Skinner is a massive disappointment for their fans im sure but i'm not sure he's going the way of LE or not.  Teams really need to be careful with contracts over 5 years with UFAs.    One of the reason i hate the b!thing about Myers is first off he's not nearly as bad as some think he is,  WAR can go shove it, no way Alex freaking Steen was better then Crosby in his peak prime but they tried to spin it like he was lol.  Myers has three whole years left.   Too bad he wasn't 25 and we didn't have him until he was 33.    Our D is whack.   

 

Buffalo could surprise out of the blue if things start clicking.    Skinner must be feeling pretty darn embarrassed at this point.   LE should be too.   Total shame.   Kind of sucks part of the cap era.   If there was zero cap no one would complain about anyone.    The players win in the end though.   Salary disclosure changed the entire game.  

Yeah haha I really don't mind Myers. The contract was long, but he's a pretty unique commodity. He's big + can put up points, not easy to find that. Scary slapshot too.
Would really like to see what he can do with a partner that's a bit more defensive minded. Preferably another 9 foot tall behemoth like Oleksiak. 

[the grinder]

24 minutes ago, eeeeergh said:

There ya go - discussion points! I like it. That was the whole point of the topic.

1. Yes - this is accurate! That's why my point was "they've probably got the best chances of picking 1st in 2022 and 2023". We'd have no chance of trading for the 1OA once the spot has been confirmed in either of those two drafts - Wright and Beard being generational talents, it just wouldn't make any sense to trade once the spot has solidified. But.. I wanted some thoughts from folks on a. the odds of Buffalo picking 1st in either of those two drafts, and b. the desire Buffalo may have for stars that can play now, rather than entering yet another rebuild.

2. Sedins?- Nope I'm wrong - we got the #2 and #3 overall, and made a deal so we could get the Sedins

I didn't make this post with a specific trade in mind - rather, in what circumstances might it make sense to acquire the 1st rounders from the team that's most likely to pick 1st in two drafts that will have generational talents. 

i believe during all the wheeling and dealing for the sedins we did acquire the 1st overall pick and traded down

[the grinder]

26 minutes ago, eeeeergh said:

There ya go - discussion points! I like it. That was the whole point of the topic.

1. Yes - this is accurate! That's why my point was "they've probably got the best chances of picking 1st in 2022 and 2023". We'd have no chance of trading for the 1OA once the spot has been confirmed in either of those two drafts - Wright and Beard being generational talents, it just wouldn't make any sense to trade once the spot has solidified. But.. I wanted some thoughts from folks on a. the odds of Buffalo picking 1st in either of those two drafts, and b. the desire Buffalo may have for stars that can play now, rather than entering yet another rebuild.

2. Sedins?- Nope I'm wrong - we got the #2 and #3 overall, and made a deal so we could get the Sedins

I didn't make this post with a specific trade in mind - rather, in what circumstances might it make sense to acquire the 1st rounders from the team that's most likely to pick 1st in two drafts that will have generational talents. 

i believe during all the wheeling and dealing for the sedins we did acquire the 1st overall pick and traded down

[Rick Blight]

2 minutes ago, IBatch said:

I'm not so sure about that.   First off Buffalo couldn't afford them.   Heck we can barely do that.   I've said it a dozen or so times now, the team could turn the corner and start competing now if we made two hard trades.   Our 9th overall for Reinhardt is fair value for one guaranteed year.   Maybe add a little if he re-signs (which for sure he will).  Then trade QHs.   Instead of spending the next couple of years trying to make it work with him,  trade him now.   This is about opening the window now.  Ekblad is at the top of the list, then maybe Chychrun, then maybe .... Dobson  plus. Make an offer.    If our R side is weak and our L side is strong then go for it.    Sure Chychrun is  LHD so he'd be at the bottom.     If Rathbone can do 80% of what QHs does .... then utilize it. 

I am not suggesting that we actually pursue a trade to get Buffalo's two 1st round picks but I really believe they would actually start negotiations with that demand. The problem going this route is that Buffalo becomes a stronger team and we get no shot at Wright or Bedard anyway.

 

As for trading QH, I am not totally against trading him as the return should be very high. I really want to see what he does this year though before committing to that strategy.

[eeeeergh]

7 minutes ago, IBatch said:

I'm not so sure about that.   First off Buffalo couldn't afford them.   Heck we can barely do that.   I've said it a dozen or so times now, the team could turn the corner and start competing now if we made two hard trades.   Our 9th overall for Reinhardt is fair value for one guaranteed year.   Maybe add a little if he re-signs (which for sure he will).  Then trade QHs.   Instead of spending the next couple of years trying to make it work with him,  trade him now.   This is about opening the window now.  Ekblad is at the top of the list, then maybe Chychrun, then maybe .... Dobson  plus. Make an offer.    If our R side is weak and our L side is strong then go for it.    Sure Chychrun is  LHD so he'd be at the bottom.     If Rathbone can do 80% of what QHs does .... then utilize it. 

 

 

Edit:   BTW it's not really my first choice but i like the idea a lot.    First choice is to sign both EP and QHs to bridge deals.     Then see how next year goes.   We might need to re-.set around both these guys, Hogs and Podz can't be ignored either, same as OJ, Woo, Rathbone, MD, even Gads and Lind.

 

My preference is to just sign both EP and QHs to bridges...one year apart.   See how it goes and then decide what to do next off season.  Keep it simple this year.   Just like last year.   Let the cap shed.   Find out what we have left in the pool (If Podz is the best of the bunch we are sorted for the forward group!).   And then choose if we should re-set like COL did.   Move 2 of Miller, Horvat, BB.    

Yeah I tend to agree. I rly don't want to see us give away a ton of assets just to shed cap, when all we need to do is be patient for 1 year. I do think the ED gives us a window of opportunity to poach some cost controlled assets from teams likely to lose someone good to Seattle - like Greenway and Mayfield, for a pretty good deal. 

I'm with you though - I don't think we're THAT far from competing. 1 top 6 winger (shame we couldn't afford to keep Toffoli at the time - this would already be taken care of), 1 point-producing 3rd line winger, and 1-2 big, gritty defensive d-men, and we're a very different looking team. 

2 hard trades would do it. 

[eeeeergh]

1 minute ago, Rick Blight said:

I am not suggesting that we actually pursue a trade to get Buffalo's two 1st round picks but I really believe they would actually start negotiations with that demand. The problem going this route is that Buffalo becomes a stronger team and we get no shot at Wright or Bedard anyway.

 

As for trading QH, I am not totally against trading him as the return should be very high. I really want to see what he does this year though before committing to that strategy.

You're right about another year for QH - give him really big and defensively responsible partner, and he'll have an unbelievable year. If we want to trade him, that'd be the time. 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

4 minutes ago, the grinder said:

i believe during all the wheeling and dealing for the sedins we did acquire the 1st overall pick and traded down

Burke made an agreeement with the Thrashers not to pick either Sedin.  He actually wanted the Thrashers pick as well (so he'd have the top three picks!) but the Thrashers being an expansion club wanted the "PR" of marketing "we have the number one overall pick".  But either Sedin was the 1st & 2nd ranked prospect at the time.

[Gurn]

54 minutes ago, eeeeergh said:

personal attacks are really not welcome, nor do they make you look smart. So sit down and mind your manners, child. 

 

58 minutes ago, eeeeergh said:

Mind your manners child

[JustABandwagoner]

1 hour ago, eeeeergh said:

Okay here's my thinking - Buffalo is a tragedy. Everyone wants out, and they've also spent so long "rebuilding", I doubt they can afford to do another full rebuild through the draft. 
We know they're still gonna stink for a couple years no matter what - its going to take time to right the ship, and so they've probably got the best chances of picking 1st in 2022 and 2023.. When Shane Wright and Connor Bedard will be draft eligible respectively.

 

What would we have to give up to get those two picks?

Would you part with one of our stars (Hughes or Petey) for both picks + Reinhart? 

Imagine if we got both Wright AND Bedard.... We'd be the new Pittsburgh w Crosby and Malkin. 

You are NOT playing NHL 21 here.... 

[eeeeergh]

6 minutes ago, gurn said:

 

Hey he was rude so it was fair game!
Its done with now though. 

[BlastPast]

It is an absolute boom season for terrible fan proposals right now; the best and brightest are in fine form. To answer the op's question though: It's not happening. But how about Lind, Roussel, and the Canucks' next 30 7th rounders for McAvoy? How could they say no ?

[Rick Blight]

21 minutes ago, the grinder said:

i believe during all the wheeling and dealing for the sedins we did acquire the 1st overall pick and traded down

These are the actual trades made that day.

Vancouver Canucks acquire	Date	Tampa Bay Lightning acquire
1999 1st round pick (#1-Patrik Stefan)	June 26, 1999	1999 1st round pick (#4-Pavel Brendl) 1999 3rd round pick (#75-Brett Scheffelmaier) 1999 3rd round pick (#88-Jimmie Olvestad)

 

Vancouver Canucks acquire	Date	Chicago Blackhawks acquire
1999 1st round pick (#4-Pavel Brendl)	June 25, 1999	Bryan McCabe 2000 or 2001 1st round pick (2000 #11-Pavel Vorobiev)

Vancouver Canucks acquire	Date	Atlanta Thrashers acquire
1999 1st round pick (#2-Daniel Sedin) 2000 conditional 3rd round pick (#67-Max Birbraer)	June 25, 1999	1999 1st round pick (#1-Patrik Stefan)

[Bad_BOI_pete]

34 minutes ago, IBatch said:

I'm not so sure about that.   First off Buffalo couldn't afford them.   Heck we can barely do that.   I've said it a dozen or so times now, the team could turn the corner and start competing now if we made two hard trades.   Our 9th overall for Reinhardt is fair value for one guaranteed year.   Maybe add a little if he re-signs (which for sure he will).  Then trade QHs.   Instead of spending the next couple of years trying to make it work with him,  trade him now.   This is about opening the window now.  Ekblad is at the top of the list, then maybe Chychrun, then maybe .... Dobson  plus. Make an offer.    If our R side is weak and our L side is strong then go for it.    Sure Chychrun is  LHD so he'd be at the bottom.     If Rathbone can do 80% of what QHs does .... then utilize it. 

 

 

Edit:   BTW it's not really my first choice but i like the idea a lot.    First choice is to sign both EP and QHs to bridge deals.     Then see how next year goes.   We might need to re-.set around both these guys, Hogs and Podz can't be ignored either, same as OJ, Woo, Rathbone, MD, even Gads and Lind.

 

My preference is to just sign both EP and QHs to bridges...one year apart.   See how it goes and then decide what to do next off season.  Keep it simple this year.   Just like last year.   Let the cap shed.   Find out what we have left in the pool (If Podz is the best of the bunch we are sorted for the forward group!).   And then choose if we should re-set like COL did.   Move 2 of Miller, Horvat, BB.    

not many can see the value in trading hughes, so get prepared to get bag faced. But I do and thank you.

[eeeeergh]

 

Just now, Petey_BOI said:

not many can see the value in trading hughes, so get prepared to get bag faced. But I do and thank you.

Hey if the price is really worth it.. If he has a stellar year next year, + if Rathbone ends up becoming what we think he's gonna be.. why not?

We'd get an absolutely insane return for him. 

[Warhippy]

Why Buffalo?  They wouldn't.

 

If you REALLY wanna try though.

 

I'd actually target Jersey.  There's just nowhere near enough on that team to make them competitive.

 

Send them Hughes for this years 2nd next years 2nd and a 2023 1st round pick non protected.  

 

No scoring from the backend means were' another top 10 pick for at least 2 more years.  Jersey won't improve enough so 2 lottery chances at bedard and the omg we need to suck and tank group get what they want.  More oiler level futility in hopes we can draft a guy that Montreal is most likely going to end up with because they will Ottawa their next 2 seasons.

[eeeeergh]

14 minutes ago, BlastPast said:

It is an absolute boom season for terrible fan proposals right now; the best and brightest are in fine form. To answer the op's question though: It's not happening. But how about Lind, Roussel, and the Canucks' next 30 7th rounders for McAvoy? How could they say no ?

Curious why you think the value is so far off - 

Buffalo's asking price for Eichel is the equivalent of 4 1st overall picks. 
I don't think Petey is worth much if any less than that.

Reinhart wants to leave, and is therefore a distressed asset so his value takes a bit of a hit (probably less than 2 1st overall picks).

So if Petey is worth 3-4 1sts, and we're trading for 2 1sts + a player that's got a value of 1-2 1sts, why is it so unrealistic?

If I'm not seeing something, please enlighten me. Not flaming you, just curious. 
 

[BlastPast]

1 minute ago, eeeeergh said:

Curious why you think the value is so far off - 

Buffalo's asking price for Eichel is the equivalent of 4 1st overall picks. 
I don't think Petey is worth much if any less than that.

Reinhart wants to leave, and is therefore a distressed asset so his value takes a bit of a hit (probably less than 2 1st overall picks).

So if Petey is worth 3-4 1sts, and we're trading for 2 1sts + a player that's got a value of 1-2 1sts, why is it so unrealistic?

If I'm not seeing something, please enlighten me. Not flaming you, just curious. 
 

OK, I'll give this a quick shot. I haven't seen anything that indicates the Sabres' price for JE is equiv. to 4 first overall picks. EP is worth 3-4 firsts? Is that 1st overall or 32nd? Big difference there. Just because SR wants out doesn't necessarily reduce his value because he can't control the situation - beyond refusing to sign a long term extension with the team that acquires him. If there are multiple teams in on him it makes it less relevant. 

Those next two Buffalo 1st rounders are their golden tickets to get out of $&!#tsville and recapture their fanbase, and I would be blown away if they entertained any offer for them at this point. EP is a great player but I doubt he alone can take that team to a point where they can confidently get out of bottom ten - especially after trading some of their established veterans like JE, SR, etc.. Would have to think that the fallout for dealing a pick that turned into Bedard, etc. would be too much to warrant the risk.