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Why we are never in the conversation for big name trades in the Benning era?

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8 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

I think it's a nasty rumour made up by media members who want to "stir up" controversies to sell stories.

 

One of the biggest defenders of the media @wallstreetamigo said so himself that it would be "extremely boring" if they only reported 100 percent verifiable info. :picard: I haven't seen someone like him who went to bat for someone else (the media) just give up completely on defending them.

 

According to Benning, he claims to not have any trade requests. Of course, we don't know if this is true or not because he still has to maintain his leverage. So we can only 'know' what we have publicly heard.

Anyone can make up "rumours" in the journalism industry and pose it like it's a fact. The media does it all the time. I bring up the Hughes on IV story a lot because this was a story that never should've been run, at all. 

 

Funny how wallstreetamigo still doesn't address that aspect, even after being asked to do so many, many times.

Why do you constantly misrepresent what I actually say? 

 

1. Just because Benning denies something doesnt mean it is 100% for sure true or not true. In a situation like the Schmidt rumor, he has every reason to lie about it if it is true. I wouldnt want a GM who would kneecap himself by acknowledging something like that when the player has not already forced his hand publicly. 

 

2. Just because the media reports something doesnt mean it is 100% for sure true or not true. Most of the media are actually pretty clear when they are speculating based on something they have heard. Thats actually their job. They speculate. They create buzz around the team. They report what they hear.  

 

Both have jobs to do and sometimes that involves crafting a narrative that straddles the line of verifiable truth.

 

The Hughes IV story I have addressed several times actually. I dont think it was true. But my point remains that it still could have been true. Just because Hughes denied it doesnt mean it has to be false. It could easily mean it wasnt a story the Canucks and Hughes wanted to be front and center especially during the season. Again, I have never said it was true. Just that regular people dont always know the truth, they just know what they are told.

 

Thats why it blows me away that people get so butthurt about the media. They are just doing their job. And I guarantee you if they did things your way and never speculated or stirred up controversy, the first ones complaining would be the Canucks themselves. The team benefits from being talked about. Whether its supportive or critical is irrelevent to them. The only thing that would bother them is to be ignored in the media. We are actually lucky in Van that they dont compete with other major sports. 

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On 7/5/2021 at 9:14 AM, Canuckfanforlife82 said:

It’s a little frustrating to see where this franchise is at and all the pieces it is still missing and then realize we don’t have the assets to make impact trades. This franchise should at least have assets to make deals for players like a Seth Jones, yet this team isn’t even mentioned. That happens at every free agency and trade deadline. It’s just another example of how this franchise has not been set up to get better or to improve. There is very little in the prospect cupboard as of right now which is alarming at this point. It would just be nice to at least be in that conversation. Hearing Schmidt wants out just goes to show there is something wrong with this organization.

I think it's a mix of our top prospects coming directly to the team rather then spending time developing at lower levels and a lot of high end players who are in win now mode.

A lot of the time, it's veterans with nice that become available. Most of them don't want to come to a team that isn't ready to truly compete for a cup.

In the case of Jones, he's stated a desire to test free agency. I know that if I were gm, trading for a player with an uncertain future would not be something I'd be willing to do.

Of course if agreed to a new deal, I'd be more inclined to do a trade but rumor has it, he has certain destinations in mind and Canada isn't among them.

Also, some players don't like high pressure markets. Vancouver is said to be second in that category, behind only Montreal.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Why do you constantly misrepresent what I actually say? 

 

1. Just because Benning denies something doesnt mean it is 100% for sure true or not true. In a situation like the Schmidt rumor, he has every reason to lie about it if it is true. I wouldnt want a GM who would kneecap himself by acknowledging something like that when the player has not already forced his hand publicly. 

 

2. Just because the media reports something doesnt mean it is 100% for sure true or not true. Most of the media are actually pretty clear when they are speculating based on something they have heard. Thats actually their job. They speculate. They create buzz around the team. They report what they hear.  

 

Both have jobs to do and sometimes that involves crafting a narrative that straddles the line of verifiable truth.

 

The Hughes IV story I have addressed several times actually. I dont think it was true. But my point remains that it still could have been true. Just because Hughes denied it doesnt mean it has to be false. It could easily mean it wasnt a story the Canucks and Hughes wanted to be front and center especially during the season. Again, I have never said it was true. Just that regular people dont always know the truth, they just know what they are told.

 

Thats why it blows me away that people get so butthurt about the media. They are just doing their job. And I guarantee you if they did things your way and never speculated or stirred up controversy, the first ones complaining would be the Canucks themselves. The team benefits from being talked about. Whether its supportive or critical is irrelevent to them. The only thing that would bother them is to be ignored in the media. We are actually lucky in Van that they dont compete with other major sports. 

I MISREPRESENTED YOU? :lol: Look at your own contradictions, dude. Saying you were misrepresented is absolutely a cop-out without having to explain yourself, @wallstreetamigo  (Source: https://forum.canucks.com/topic/397220-speculation-is-schmidt-on-the-move/page/43/)

My whole point was about media accountability. You're not only defending media's antics that go against accountability, you yourself are engaging in this campaign of misinformation.

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image.thumb.png.51e4ea6824109e8390f740dd0e2e85b1.png
 

Edited by Dazzle
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6 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

I MISREPRESENTED YOU? :lol: Look at your own contradictions, dude. (Source: https://forum.canucks.com/topic/397220-speculation-is-schmidt-on-the-move/page/43/)

 

image.thumb.png.432809ef85bc82e6bb018e68df632a4b.png

image.thumb.png.51e4ea6824109e8390f740dd0e2e85b1.png
 

Lol every one of those things is saying the same thing. You should learn to read.

 

The media reports what they hear. They speculate. Thats their job. 

 

The media you hate so much have exponentially more inside information, context, and sources than you do. People here who suggest they know more than them are delusional. Doesnt mean they always get things right but they dont always get things wrong just because it might paint an unflattering picture of Benning or the Canucks.

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Lol every one of those things is saying the same thing. You should learn to read.

 

The media reports what they hear. They speculate. Thats their job. 

 

The media you hate so much have exponentially more inside information, context, and sources than you do. People here who suggest they know more than them are delusional. Doesnt mean they always get things right but they dont always get things wrong just because it might paint an unflattering picture of Benning or the Canucks.

Really dude? This here is an example of a CONTRADICTION.

 

image.png.51a47fe1ae1234e84d566ad7a7d60dde.png

 

"They [Canucks/Benning] have their own reasons to craft a narrative too. More so than the media tbh"

 

and

 

"Sports reporting would be extremely boring if it was only 100% provable and verified news..."

 

Somehow you managed to contradict yourself several times over a span of 1 or 2 days. Not even 24 hrs for the first instance, I just looked. LOL.
 

 

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image.thumb.png.efa8e6da27721486f916a423cb14eb69.png

Edited by Dazzle
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Posted (edited)
56 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

Really dude? This here is an example of a CONTRADICTION.

 

image.png.51a47fe1ae1234e84d566ad7a7d60dde.png

 

"They [Canucks/Benning] have their own reasons to craft a narrative too. More so than the media tbh"

 

and

 

"Sports reporting would be extremely boring if it was only 100% provable and verified news..."

 

Somehow you managed to contradict yourself several times over a span of 1 or 2 days. Not even 24 hrs for the first instance, I just looked. LOL.
 

 

image.thumb.png.893be626bbed34a8fb996d471d044639.png

image.thumb.png.efa8e6da27721486f916a423cb14eb69.png

Clearly you dont know what either of those statements actually mean.

 

One is about Benning (and every GM/team) manipulating information to support the narrative they need. 

 

The other is about the media taking what they hear from sources to speculate on things that are happening around the team.

 

Since neither of those things are at all mutually exclusive or even related to any degree, its not really a contradiction. 

 

I know you feel the need to try to debunk anything I say with your hyperbolic black and white view but sorry bud you are really chasing your tail trying to tie these two statements together.

 

Benning spins, the media speculates. Its really not rocket science.

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I don't care about being in talks about big name trades, I wanna hear about Benning being in talks with his UFAs. Letting Stecher, Tanev and Toffoli go without doing any talking is pretty bad. Yes, I know we had cap issues. But still, it's distressing when these players are publically saying there was 0 contact with management about anything. At least kick some tires on them and see what's what.

 

Also, we were tied to OEL last summer. Soooooo, yeah. Vancouver will always be in the rumors about some big name. We're a market with rabid fans. Media is always tying us to someone for some clicks. Doesn't amount to squat. The vast majority of these rumors amount to nothing anyway, not sure why you care so much.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Clearly you dont know what either of those statements actually mean.

 

One is about Benning (and every GM/team) manipulating information to support the narrative they need. 

 

The other is about the media taking what they hear from sources to speculate on things that are happening around the team.

 

Since neither of those things are at all mutually exclusive or even related to any degree, its not really a contradiction. 

 

I know you feel the need to try to debunk anything I say with your hyperbolic black and white view but sorry bud you are really chasing your tail trying to tie these two statements together.

 

Benning spins, the media speculates. Its really not rocket science.

You are so dishonest. I actually liked your posts prior to you spewing this manipulation. I guess your true colours came through.

 

It's just really annoying when everyone else points out your contradictions, and you just make excuses, or try to outright lie about it.

 

I know you know you got caught in a hole. You just don't want to admit it. How a media can be ethical and, and in your words, try to cook up a story to sell papers.  It is a contradiction. It means they have motives, equal to what a GM might have too. So don't say a media has less of a role in lying. That is total horsecrap.

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OEL is a bottom 5 contract in the sport and isn't a big fish at this point. 

 

Arizona is smart for attempting to get out of this. Acquiring him for any price would be an absolute nightmare -- I hope we stay out.

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Posted (edited)
47 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said:

 

Before watching this, I was expecting this guy to be Ronaldo, or Messi in disguise. I was definitely wrong. 

 

In hindsight, I should have looked at the tag.

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9 hours ago, Dazzle said:

You are so dishonest. I actually liked your posts prior to you spewing this manipulation. I guess your true colours came through.

 

It's just really annoying when everyone else points out your contradictions, and you just make excuses, or try to outright lie about it.

 

I know you know you got caught in a hole. You just don't want to admit it. How a media can be ethical and, and in your words, try to cook up a story to sell papers.  It is a contradiction. It means they have motives, equal to what a GM might have too. So don't say a media has less of a role in lying. That is total horsecrap.

First of all, you dont seem to actually understand what contradiction means despite posting a definition of it. 

 

I am not dishonest at all. Everything I have posted about this is simply fact. The media has a job to do and they do it. So does a GM. If you find yourself thinking that one is 100% truthful and the other is 100% not truthful, that just means you are incapable of rational, balanced, and context-based reasoning.

 

Not sure what hole I got caught in. A GM can lie and a media person can speculate and extrapolate from info they get at the same time. Those things are not mutually exclusive. To be a contradiction they would have to be.

 

I never said they "cook up a story" to sell papers. Thats a naive view by people who simply have to believe that Benning is always honest. I said they report and speculate based on information they hear, which is not always 100% of the story. If you dont understand the difference, let me explain it to you.

 

You are implying they make up stories based on nothing at all. Thats not what really happens, at least not with the reporters you whine the most about. They have actual sources and they get told information. They use that information (which can also be faulty or manipulated by others to create a narrative or get info out that they want out) to then speculate what might be going on.

 

The media doesnt generally lie with an agenda to harm the team. It doesnt help them at all to do so. They lose sources and access to the team quickly if they do. Why would they risk that? If anything, they more often shield the team from context to protect their own access.

 

GM's, on the other hand, have every reason to lie, mislead, and craft the narrative they want. And they do it all the time. Thats not nefarious, its just reality of being in a job that is based on both performance and perception. I wouldnt want a GM who didnt understand that.

 

There is a difference between the media speculating and the media lying. Speculating is their job, lying isnt. And its pretty rare to see an established media person outright make up a story out of nothing. 

 

I know you struggle to follow my arguments because they are not at the extremes, arent black and white, and dont blame one party over another 100% of the time. Context and nuance arent your thing, I get it.

 

 

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On 7/5/2021 at 1:11 PM, ChuckNORRIS4Cup said:

I'll give credit for Miller but Schmidt..... He underperformed big time imo, I was expecting more out of him and that didn't happen. And hearing rumors now that he wants to be traded out, not really an excellent move there.

I saw more brain cramps in his play than Meyers by a long shot. 

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On 7/5/2021 at 9:42 AM, NUCKER67 said:

Cupboard is pretty bare, because Benning's good prospects are all being brought into the team. Last year's Draft was a wash, no 1st or 2nd. 

 

Benning needed to acquire as many higher round picks as he could over the last 5+ years. He didn't do that. 

 

You hit the nail on the head. Benning is a scout by nature, that's  his strength and always has been. Its obvious that his trades and signings haven't panned out as well as everyone has hoped. In other words, he tends to gain value for the team by doing great draft day only for him to subsequently lose value in trades and signings. This pattern causes us to stagnate as a team.

Instead, why not make trades that allows Benning to play on the field that he's a master at and acquire picks? That way, he can eventually increase the teams value over time. 

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3 hours ago, EBataleon said:

Before watching this, I was expecting this guy to be Ronaldo, or Messi in disguise. I was definitely wrong. 

 

In hindsight, I should have looked at the tag.

Even in disguise as an old man Ronaldo has much better moves than that guy. 
 

 

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1 hour ago, Boudrias said:

I saw more brain cramps in his play than Meyers by a long shot. 

Definitely early on in the season, he played horrible, fumbling the puck on his stick many times, couldn't make a pass, he did improve as the season went on, but it wasn't enough for me to go :frantic:, he definitely didn't impress me enough this season, so if he wants out I don't care he didn't impress me enough. 

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18 hours ago, Dazzle said:

I think it's a nasty rumour made up by media members who want to "stir up" controversies to sell stories.

 

You are certainly welcome to have that opinion. IMO there are few media members above reproach, the Bobfather is one of them. His void has yet to be filled so we are in that transition period where we are still looking for his successor. 

 

I do have some healthy level of skepticism when Drance is the first to report it, then Taj but then it moves its way up the chain with Sportsnet then Elliott Friedman is talking about it, I can at least confidently conclude that there's smoke, so the possibility a fire exists is a non-zero chance. I'll take Elliott's approach here, there is something there, but the extent of it can be debated and it is still possible Schmidt starts with us next season. 

 

 

Side tangent:

 

I don't recall who made the argument in the closed Schmidt thread, but the argument that some posters here work for the Canucks or have connections to the staff and their take on things can be trusted more than the media. I think the opposite. When you work for your boss and you are posting on a site monitored by your bosses, you tend to post what your boss wants the market to hear, which isn't necessarily truth.

 

I also don't expect the Canucks to hire people who are also fans of the team. Quite the opposite, you want individuals who can separate their fandom and being a professional. I just don't see it where people with inside knowledge of the Canucks would spend their time here posting facts or debunking myths based on their knowledge of the inner workings, it would definitely violate a non-disclosure agreement they'd have to sign to work with the team.

 

 

 

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