Nucker 67 Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 I'm sure Benning will bring in a Dman or two, but who? Jones? Parayko? Cernak? Nahh... Benning has a tendency to trade for non-star players who are on the decline or about to. That's why VAN has Roussel, Beagle, Holtby, Eriksson, Ferland, etc. Miller and Hamonic might be exceptions. So, if you want to know who Jim will be bringing in, just take a look at the league D stats and see who's had their best years already. That's our guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-DLC- Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 5 hours ago, wai_lai416 said: how dare Gillis's team finish top 8 in the league every year how dare he only have late 1st round pick every year that most teams in the league would whiff on. how dare he doesn't have any top 6 picks every year to fill the prospect pool. news flash most team that's been sitting near the top of the league standing have pretty bare prospect pools. so what did benning do? whiffs on his 2 top 6 picks traded away mccann for a pylon that he felt the need to re-sign right away. then started tossing away draft picks and prospect and gotten no return out of it.. it's actually pretty pathetic how little top end or or above average prospect we have during benning's tenure so far that's even still with the team considering we have like the 3rd or 5th worse record in the league since benning took over. woo lind rathbone lockwood gadjovich etc are nothing really to get excited about. outside of the 1st round what does benning have to show for? demko and Hoglander.. batting only 60% on top 10 picks not including podz which is tbd. but probably in your eyes all our prospect are gonna be nhl impact player or something. our prospect pool is loaded etc etc etc. This honestly sounds like one big run on whine. Can you further elaborate on "tossing away draft picks?" because that seems exaggerated. Picks in the second to 7th round aren't really too much to get worried about unless you hit a winner, which is tough to do. So I'd like you to list the picks that were thrown away that concern you. Most "prospects" aren't anything to get too excited about out of the gates....the cream of the crop are in the top tier of the draft and go quickly. We've had some nice surprises at later picks and I don't think you understand that this is more of a crapshoot than a matter of going and picking out shining stars from the shining star aisle at the draft. If you don't get a top pick it's anyone's guess for all draft picks. The jump to the NHL can weed out players with potential who just don't make the jump as seamlessly as some may expect. It's a roll of the dice. Just because a pick is traded, doesn't it mean an impact player was....it's an unknown. Draft picks have come to represent "gold" to some but they're more of a lottery ticket. You may or may not win something. Yes, good teams build through the draft but some teams have been terrible and get a lot of high picks. I don't know that our fanbase can suffer through us being that terrible for long durations...they'd cry. I think you totally overlook the fact that prospects don't always slide in with impact...they can take time to develop (properly). And some never do. Yet a guy like Brock is a gem that we got at 23(?). A lot of teams overlooked him but... I'm not crying over McCann as a huge "impact player". I feel like some stay stuck on things that prove their point but completely ignore other things that don't support the narrative they're sold on. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Blankenship Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, NUCKER67 said: I'm sure Benning will bring in a Dman or two, but who? Jones? Parayko? Cernak? Nahh... Benning has a tendency to trade for non-star players who are on the decline or about to. That's why VAN has Roussel, Beagle, Holtby, Eriksson, Ferland, etc. Miller and Hamonic might be exceptions. So, if you want to know who Jim will be bringing in, just take a look at the league D stats and see who's had their best years already. That's our guy. Every name that you listed there, with the exception of Miller, was a free agent signing. And Miller has been our best player since he got here. Edited July 7, 2021 by Kenny Blankenship 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-DLC- Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 41 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said: I'm sure Benning will bring in a Dman or two, but who? Jones? Parayko? Cernak? Nahh... Benning has a tendency to trade for non-star players who are on the decline or about to. That's why VAN has Roussel, Beagle, Holtby, Eriksson, Ferland, etc. Miller and Hamonic might be exceptions. So, if you want to know who Jim will be bringing in, just take a look at the league D stats and see who's had their best years already. That's our guy. Thing is, they're hard to come by. Teams aren't giving up top D men and it can be slim pickings unless you pay a king's ransom in bidding wars when they do become available. Can get burned that way and I'm happy to see them tread carefully. There's a balance to be struck that's really difficult to achieve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 1 hour ago, NUCKER67 said: I'm sure Benning will bring in a Dman or two, but who? Jones? Parayko? Cernak? Nahh... Benning has a tendency to trade for non-star players who are on the decline or about to. That's why VAN has Roussel, Beagle, Holtby, Eriksson, Ferland, etc. Miller and Hamonic might be exceptions. So, if you want to know who Jim will be bringing in, just take a look at the league D stats and see who's had their best years already. That's our guy. Hey be thankful we aren’t the Loser Leafs and their terrible contracts. Look at how horrid their 11 million dollar contacts are looking! Couldn’t even give those guys away. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertuzzipunch Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 1 minute ago, Alflives said: Hey be thankful we aren’t the Loser Leafs and their terrible contracts. Look at how horrid their 11 million dollar contacts are looking! Couldn’t even give those guys away. Well id take mathews but thats it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertuzzipunch Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 23 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said: Thing is, they're hard to come by. Teams aren't giving up top D men and it can be slim pickings unless you pay a king's ransom in bidding wars when they do become available. Can get burned that way and I'm happy to see them tread carefully. There's a balance to be struck that's really difficult to achieve. Thats why i think we should load up with D in this draft. Especially RHD use our first 3 picks even for it(maybe lol 2 for sure). Next year is turning out to be a strong draft where even if we make playoffs there might be a boeser type guy in the later part of the first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Glensky Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 On 7/5/2021 at 10:14 AM, knucklehead91 said: I think at this point in the rebuild, its good to avoid the big names. And when it comes to prospects and assets, I feel like its the opposite, we have quite a few prospects who have been doing very well in their respective leagues. Maybe the reason why it looks like we dont have many prospects is because the ones we are drafting are making the team and making an impact so they go from draft picks/prospects to NHLers overnight. If we were to go after the big names now, its going to cost us a roster player, prospect and a pick or more. Thats a lot to move out only to get 1 player in return. We should be going after the big guys when we are competing/heading into playoffs. Let the team play it out for a bit and then identify the guy we need. We dont need to just go after a guy everytime because he is available, we need the right fit. Someone who will do well in our systems and work well off their dpartner/linemates Pettersson, Boeser, Horvat, Demko, Hughes, Hoglander, Rathbone, Podkolzin, Juolevi are all guys that are/were prospects that are about to or instantly became NHLers. I would also even mention Virtanen and McCann, both are in the NHL, for now…. Virtanen’s career/future is in question We have guys like DiPietro, Karlsson, McDonough, Kunz, Lockwood, Lind, Gadjovich, Woo, Focht, Malone who are all doing pretty decently where they are right now. JB’s drafting has produced 1801 NHL games in 7 years…..thats almost more than Gillis’s drafting and Gillis’s drafting had a 6 year head start on playing in the NHL. Gillis’ drafting has produced 1969 NHL games. Next season, Benning will surpass that in less than 20 games. I dont think the future for Vancouver could be any brighter. As long as we can continue to draft and produce NHL players through our own organization, we will be a very good team for a very long time. All we have to do is land a few guys here and there at the through trade and or free agency and we will be a contending team for many years Look at Tampa, the large majority of their team was allllll drafted by Tampa, they developed in the system and they took a handful of years to get where they are now. Vancouver is drafting, developing and icing a team that is largely becoming more and more of Vancouvers own draft picks and they are making an impact. Be patient my friend. The good times are right around the corner Lemme know when we draft a Kucherov or a Hedman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 6 minutes ago, Wayne Glensky said: Lemme know when we draft a Kucherov or a Hedman. Already have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmm Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 9 hours ago, knucklehead91 said: okay, soooo like what part of mr NMC-Gillis pretty much failing entirely at drafting and having zero prospects in the pipeline do you not understand.....? Gillis had 1 legitimate prospect out of all his drafting..... Bo Horvat 2013 Entry Draft Num. Round Player Pos Drafted From GP G A Pts PIM 2013 Entry 9 1 Bo Horvat C London Knights [OHL] 502 139 175 314 148 2013 Entry 24 1 Hunter Shinkaruk L Medicine Hat Tigers [WHL] 15 2 2 4 4 2013 Entry 85 3 Cole Cassels C Oshawa Generals [OHL] 2013 Entry 115 4 Jordan Subban D Belleville Bulls [OHL] 2013 Entry 145 5 Anton Cederholm D Rogle Jrs. (Sweden) 2013 Entry 175 6 Mike Williamson D Spruce Grove Saints [AJHL] 2013 Entry 205 7 Miles Liberati D London Knights [OHL] 2012 Entry Draft Num. Round Player Pos Drafted From GP G A Pts PIM 2012 Entry 26 1 Brendan Gaunce C Belleville Bulls [OHL] 118 6 10 16 47 2012 Entry 57 2 Alexandre Mallet C Rimouski Oceanic [QMJHL] 2012 Entry 147 5 Ben Hutton D Nepean Raiders [CCHL] 379 16 75 91 136 2012 Entry 177 6 Wesley Myron F Victoria Grizzlies [BCHL] 2012 Entry 207 7 Matthew Beattie R Exeter [N.H. H.S.] 2011 Entry Draft Num. Round Player Pos Drafted From GP G A Pts PIM 2011 Entry 29 1 Nicklas Jensen R Oshawa Generals [OHL] 31 3 3 6 10 2011 Entry 71 3 David Honzik G Victoriaville Tigres [QMJHL] 2011 Entry 90 3 Alexandre Grenier R Quebec Remparts [QMJHL] 9 0 0 0 2 2011 Entry 101 4 Joseph LaBate L Holy Angels Academy (Minn.) 13 0 0 0 21 2011 Entry 120 4 Ludwig Blomstrand L Djurgarden Jrs. (Sweden) 2011 Entry 150 5 Frankie Corrado D Sudbury Wolves [OHL] 76 3 5 8 40 2011 Entry 180 6 Pathrik Westerholm L Malmo Redhawks [Swe-1] 2011 Entry 210 7 Henrik Tommernes D Frolunda HC [SEL] 2010 Entry Draft Num. Round Player Pos Drafted From GP G A Pts PIM 2010 Entry 115 4 Patrick McNally D Milton Academy [Mass.] 2010 Entry 145 5 Adam Polasek D Prince Edward Island Rocket [QMJHL] 2010 Entry 172 6 Alex Friesen C Niagara IceDogs [OHL] 1 0 0 0 0 2010 Entry 175 6 Jonathan Iilahti G Blues Jrs (Finland) 2010 Entry 205 7 Sawyer Hannay D Halifax Mooseheads [QMJHL] 2009 Entry Draft Num. Round Player Pos Drafted From GP G A Pts PIM 2009 Entry 22 1 Jordan Schroeder L U. of Minnesota [WCHA] 165 18 24 42 14 2009 Entry 53 2 Anton Rodin R Brynas Jrs. (Sweden) 3 0 1 1 0 2009 Entry 83 3 Kevin Connauton D Western Michigan University [CCHA] 321 27 50 77 184 2009 Entry 113 4 Jeremy Price D Nepean Raiders [CJHL] 2009 Entry 143 5 Peter Andersson D Frolunda Jrs. (Sweden) 2009 Entry 173 6 Joe Cannata G Merrimack College [H-East] 2009 Entry 187 7 Steven Anthony L Saint John Sea Dogs [QMJHL] 2008 Entry Draft Num. Round Player Pos Drafted From GP G A Pts PIM 2008 Entry 10 1 Cody Hodgson C Brampton Battalion [OHL] 328 64 78 142 68 2008 Entry 41 2 Yann Sauve D Saint John Sea Dogs [QMJHL] 8 0 0 0 0 2008 Entry 131 5 Prabh Rai C Seattle Thunderbirds [WHL] 2008 Entry 161 6 Mats Josten-Froshaug C Linkoping Jr. [Sweden] 2008 Entry 191 7 Morgan Clark G Red Deer Rebels [WHL] GEE THANKS GILLIS FOR DOING SUCH A GREAT JOB OF DRAFTING, BENNING SUUUUURE CAN USE THOSE PROSPECTS TO HIS ADVANTAGE. AND THANKS FOR ALL THE NMC'S WE ARE SO GLAD THESE GUYS DONT EVER WANT TO LEAVE AND HAVE THE CHOICE OF EXACTLY WHERE THEY WANT TO GO!!! YAYYYYY LOOOOOOOOOOL PSYCHE!!! How do you assemble a f***ing cup winning team without any actual assets to move to get great value in return? Jim Benning went bargain shopping he searched for the best value he could get with the pile of wet dogsh*t that Gillis left behind. Tell me HOW.....HOW is a GM with zero prospects, a bunch of deadweight, declining and completely aged core, supposed to get excellent value in any trade or signing? i'll do it again, this time for you owners want revenue revenue = playoffs playoffs = 2014-15 2014-15 = hope hope = held onto held onto = too long too long = sedins retired sedins retired = rebuild rebuild = cant hide cant hide = ownership must accept ownership must accept = support support = Benning in charge Benning in charge = shot caller shot caller = sees the plan sees the plan = noticed good young core good young core = add a guy add a guy = JT Miller JT Miller = playoff hopes once again Playoff hopes = add more add more = Toffoli Toffoli = playoffs playoffs = happy fans happy fans = yay yay = revenue revenue = happy owners Happy owners = more support more support = buyouts buyouts = bye bye LE bye bye LE = Yay Yay = playoff revenue playoff revenue = playoffs playoffs = happy fans and happy owner happy fans and happy owner = yay again happy now? Oh... as for the Sedins being "done" in 2012... did you mean this 2012? 33 Henrik Sedin C 82 14 67 81 52 23 5 2 3 5 4 Sweden: Ornskoldsvik 30 22 Daniel Sedin L 72 30 37 67 40 14 2 0 2 2 0 Sweden: Ornskoldsvik 30 Henrik 8th in league scoring Daniel 29th Fun fact 2011-2012 Loui Eriksson 20th in league scoring.. Or was it this 2012? 33 Henrik Sedin C 48 11 34 45 24 19 4 0 3 3 4 Sweden: Ornskoldsvik 31 22 Daniel Sedin L 47 12 28 40 18 12 4 0 3 3 14 Sweden: Ornskoldsvik 31 Henrik 20th in league scoring Daniel 31st Or was it this 2012? 22 Daniel Sedin L 82 20 56 76 18 5 6 2 2 4 0 Sweden: Ornskoldsvik 33 33 Henrik Sedin C 82 18 55 73 22 11 6 1 3 4 2 Sweden: Ornskoldsvik 33 Daniel 9th in league scoring Henrik 10th Im really confused as to which 2012 it was that they were done.... I coulda sworn it was 2018 they retired?? Totals 186 316 502 803 22 Daniel Sedin L 82 28 33 61 36 7 -- -- -- -- -- Sweden: Ornskoldsvik 34 33 Henrik Sedin C 74 11 44 55 24 0 -- -- -- -- -- Sweden: Ornskoldsvik 34 53 Bo Horvat C 82 16 24 40 18 -30 -- -- -- -- -- ONT: London 20 36 Jannik Hansen R 67 22 16 38 32 16 -- -- -- -- -- Denmark: Rodovre 29 47 Sven Baertschi L 69 15 13 28 14 -14 -- -- -- -- -- Switzerland: Bern 22 17 Radim Vrbata R 63 13 14 27 12 -30 -- -- -- -- -- Czech Rep.: Mlada Boleslav 34 27 Ben Hutton D 75 1 24 25 14 -21 -- -- -- -- -- ONT: Brockville 22 14 Alexandre Burrows R 79 9 13 22 49 -13 -- -- -- -- -- PQ: Pincourt 34 23 Alexander Edler D 52 6 14 20 46 -8 -- -- -- -- -- Sweden: Ostersund 29 91 Jared McCann C 69 9 9 18 32 -6 -- -- -- -- -- ONT: Stratford 19 44 Matt Bartkowski D 80 6 12 18 50 -19 -- -- -- -- -- PA: Pittsburgh 27 8 Christopher Tanev D 69 4 14 18 8 -8 -- -- -- -- -- ONT: Toronto 25 15 Derek Dorsett R 71 5 11 16 177 -13 -- -- -- -- -- SASK: Kindersley 28 7 Linden Vey R 41 4 11 15 6 -14 -- -- -- -- -- SASK: Wakaw 24 18 Jake Virtanen R 55 7 6 13 45 -7 -- -- -- -- -- BC: Langley 19 2 Dan Hamhuis D 58 3 10 13 28 -2 -- -- -- -- -- BC: Smithers 32 26 Emerson Etem 1 R 39 7 5 12 9 -8 -- -- -- -- -- CA: Long Beach 23 24 Adam Cracknell 2 R 44 5 5 10 14 1 -- -- -- -- -- SASK: Prince Albert 30 21 Brandon Sutter C 20 5 4 9 2 3 -- -- -- -- -- NY: Huntington 26 5 Luca Sbisa D 41 2 6 8 26 5 -- -- -- -- -- Italy: Ozieri 25 9 Brandon Prust L 35 1 6 7 59 -3 -- -- -- -- -- ONT: London 31 6 Yannick Weber D 45 0 7 7 24 -17 -- -- -- -- -- Switzerland: Morges 26 55 Alex Biega D 51 0 7 7 22 -11 -- -- -- -- -- PQ: Montreal 27 20 Chris Higgins L 33 3 1 4 4 -14 -- -- -- -- -- NY: Smithtown 32 60 Markus Granlund 3 C 16 2 1 3 6 -3 -- -- -- -- -- Finland: Oulu 22 88 Nikita Tryamkin D 13 1 1 2 10 -3 -- -- -- -- -- Russia: Yekaterinburg 21 25 Jacob Markstrom G 33 0 2 2 4 0 -- -- -- -- -- Sweden: Gavle 25 50 Brendan Gaunce C 20 1 0 1 2 -9 -- -- -- -- -- ONT: Sudbury 21 58 Taylor Fedun D 1 0 1 1 0 1 -- -- -- -- -- ALTA: Edmonton 27 40 Mike Zalewski L 3 0 1 1 2 1 -- -- -- -- -- NY: New Hartford 23 30 Ryan Miller G 51 0 1 1 2 0 -- -- -- -- -- MI: East Lansing 35 48 Hunter Shinkaruk 4 L 1 0 0 0 0 0 -- -- -- -- -- ALTA: Calgary 20 32 Richard Bachman G 1 0 0 0 0 0 -- -- -- -- -- UT: Salt Lake City 28 56 Alex Friesen C 1 0 0 0 0 -2 -- -- -- -- -- ONT: St.Catharines 24 65 Alexandre Grenier R 6 0 0 0 2 -4 -- -- -- -- -- PQ: Laval 23 41 Ronalds Kenins L 8 0 0 0 6 -1 -- -- -- -- -- Latvia: Riga 24 29 Andrey Pedan D 13 0 0 0 18 -3 -- -- -- -- -- Lithuania: Kaunas 22 Hmm weird... Looks to me like in 2015-16 they were still the teams top 2 scorers WAIT I FOUND IT 53 Bo Horvat C 81 20 32 52 27 -7 -- -- -- -- -- ONT: London 21 33 Henrik Sedin C 82 15 35 50 28 -27 -- -- -- -- -- Sweden: Ornskoldsvik 35 22 Daniel Sedin L 82 15 29 44 32 -16 -- -- -- -- -- Sweden: Ornskoldsvik 35 47 Sven Baertschi L 68 18 17 35 8 -6 -- -- -- -- -- Switzerland: Bern 23 20 21 Brandon Sutter C 81 17 17 34 12 -20 -- -- -- -- -- NY: Huntington 27 60 Markus Granlund C 69 19 13 32 14 -19 -- -- -- -- -- Finland: Oulu 23 21 Loui Eriksson L 65 11 13 24 8 -9 -- -- -- -- -- Sweden: Gothenburg 31 51 Troy Stecher D 71 3 21 24 25 -16 -- -- -- -- -- BC: Richmond 22 23 Alexander Edler D 68 6 15 21 36 -20 -- -- -- -- -- Sweden: Ostersund 30 14 Alexandre Burrows 1 R 55 9 11 20 53 -3 -- -- -- -- -- PQ: Pincourt 35 27 Ben Hutton D 71 5 14 19 31 -22 -- -- -- -- -- ONT: Brockville 23 36 Jannik Hansen 2 R 28 6 7 13 27 2 -- -- -- -- -- Denmark: Rodovre 30 5 Luca Sbisa D 82 2 11 13 40 -1 -- -- -- -- -- Italy: Ozieri 26 8 Christopher Tanev D 53 2 8 10 14 3 -- -- -- -- -- ONT: Toronto 26 8 9 Jack Skille R 55 5 4 9 12 0 -- -- -- -- -- WI: Madison 29 39 45 Michael Chaput C 68 4 5 9 29 -12 -- -- -- -- -- PQ: Ile-Bizard 24 88 Nikita Tryamkin D 66 2 7 9 64 -7 -- -- -- -- -- Russia: Yekaterinburg 22 46 Jayson Megna C 58 4 4 8 6 -4 -- -- -- -- -- FL: Fort Lauderdale 26 15 24 Reid Boucher 3 L 27 5 2 7 6 -7 -- -- -- -- -- MI: Grand Ledge 22 63 Philip Larsen D 26 1 5 6 4 -8 -- -- -- -- -- Denmark: Esbjerg 26 44 Erik Gudbranson D 30 1 5 6 18 -14 -- -- -- -- -- ONT: Ottawa 24 6 Brock Boeser R 9 4 1 5 0 0 -- -- -- -- -- MN: Burnsville 19 50 Brendan Gaunce C 57 0 5 5 33 -2 -- -- -- -- -- ONT: Sudbury 22 15 Derek Dorsett R 14 1 3 4 33 -6 -- -- -- -- -- SASK: Kindersley 29 82 Nikolay Goldobin 4 R 12 3 0 3 0 1 -- -- -- -- -- Russia: Moscow 20 55 Alex Biega D 36 0 3 3 18 -4 -- -- -- -- -- PQ: Montreal 28 42 Drew Shore C 14 0 2 2 4 -3 -- -- -- -- -- CO: Denver 25 17 Anton Rodin R 3 0 1 1 0 1 -- -- -- -- -- Sweden: Stockholm 25 18 Jake Virtanen R 10 0 1 1 2 1 -- -- -- -- -- BC: Langley 20 30 Ryan Miller G 54 0 1 1 22 0 -- -- -- -- -- MI: East Lansing 36 71 Borna Rendulic R 1 0 0 0 0 0 -- -- -- -- -- Croatia: Zagreb 24 61 Evan McEneny D 1 0 0 0 0 -1 -- -- -- -- -- ONT: Hamilton 22 40 Mike Zalewski L 1 0 0 0 0 -1 -- -- -- -- -- NY: New Hartford 24 65 Alexandre Grenier R 3 0 0 0 0 -1 -- -- -- -- -- PQ: Laval 24 32 Richard Bachman G 5 0 0 0 0 0 -- -- -- -- -- UT: Salt Lake City 29 13 Griffen Molino F 5 0 0 0 0 -2 -- -- -- -- -- MI: Trenton 22 26 74 Joseph Cramarossa 5 C 10 0 0 0 9 -1 -- -- -- -- -- ONT: Toronto 23 62 Joseph LaBate L 13 0 0 0 21 -2 -- -- -- -- -- MN: Eagan 23 25 Jacob Markstrom G 26 0 0 0 2 0 -- -- -- -- -- Sweden: Gavle 26 There's the year you are talking about!! The one with all of Mike Gillis's great draft pick!!!!...... Get it... Draft pick, not picks, because Gillis couldnt draft to save his life. Jeez they only finished 2nd and 3rd in team scoring?? Maybe it was actually this 2012 year? Not the 2012 year they won the Presidents Trophy like in 2011-12 but this 2012 season 6 Brock Boeser R 62 29 26 55 16 -5 -- -- -- -- -- MN: Burnsville 20 22 Daniel Sedin L 81 23 32 55 40 -21 -- -- -- -- -- Sweden: Ornskoldsvik 36 33 Henrik Sedin C 82 3 47 50 30 -22 -- -- -- -- -- Sweden: Ornskoldsvik 36 53 Bo Horvat C 64 22 22 44 10 -1 ONT: London 22 26 Thomas Vanek 1 L 61 17 24 41 28 -12 -- -- -- -- -- Austria: Vienna 33 23 Alexander Edler D 70 6 28 34 68 -18 -- -- -- -- -- Sweden: Ostersund 31 89 Sam Gagner C 74 10 21 31 35 -18 -- -- -- -- -- ONT: London 28 47 Sven Baertschi L 53 14 15 29 20 3 -- -- -- -- -- Switzerland: Bern 24 20 Brandon Sutter C 61 11 15 26 8 8 -- -- -- -- -- NY: Huntington 28 21 Loui Eriksson L 50 10 13 23 4 0 -- -- -- -- -- Sweden: Gothenburg 32 4 Michael Del Zotto D 82 6 16 22 48 -8 ONT: Stouffville 27 5 Derrick Pouliot D 71 3 19 22 39 -22 -- -- -- -- -- SASK: Estevan 23 18 Jake Virtanen R 75 10 10 20 46 -11 -- -- -- -- -- BC: Langley 21 77 Nikolay Goldobin R 38 8 6 14 6 -14 -- -- -- -- -- Russia: Moscow 21 60 Markus Granlund C 53 8 4 12 8 -10 -- -- -- -- -- Finland: Oulu 24 8 Christopher Tanev D 42 2 9 11 8 7 -- -- -- -- -- ONT: Toronto 27 51 Troy Stecher D 68 1 10 11 35 -7 BC: Richmond 23 36 Jussi Jokinen 2 L 14 4 6 10 2 7 -- -- -- -- -- Finland: Kalajoki 34 15 Derek Dorsett R 20 7 2 9 74 -1 -- -- -- -- -- SASK: Kindersley 30 49 Darren Archibald R 27 4 5 9 14 -1 -- -- -- -- -- ONT: Newmarket 27 9 Brendan Leipsic 3 L 14 3 6 9 10 -3 -- -- -- -- -- MAN: Winnipeg 23 55 Alex Biega D 44 1 8 9 32 3 PQ: Montreal 29 50 Brendan Gaunce C 37 4 2 6 10 0 ONT: Sudbury 23 42 Alexander Burmistrov C 24 2 4 6 12 -5 -- -- -- -- -- Russia: Kazan 25 27 Ben Hutton D 61 0 6 6 23 -9 -- -- -- -- -- ONT: Brockville 24 24 Reid Boucher L 20 3 2 5 0 -12 -- -- -- -- -- MI: Grand Ledge 23 44 Erik Gudbranson D 52 2 3 5 35 -7 ONT: Ottawa 25 17 Nic Dowd 4 C 40 3 0 3 16 -7 AL: Huntsville 27 25 Jacob Markstrom G 60 0 3 3 4 0 -- -- -- -- -- Sweden: Gavle 27 64 Tyler Motte 2 C 15 2 0 2 4 -1 MI: St. Clair 22 59 Ashton Sautner D 5 0 2 2 2 4 -- -- -- -- -- MAN: Flin Flon 23 31 Anders Nilsson G 27 0 1 1 0 0 -- -- -- -- -- Sweden: Lulea 27 29 Philip Holm D 1 0 0 0 0 -2 -- -- -- -- -- Sweden: Stockholm 25 35 Thatcher Demko G 1 0 0 0 0 0 -- -- -- -- -- CA: San Diego 21 7 Jayson Megna C 1 0 0 0 0 0 -- -- -- -- -- FL: Fort Lauderdale 27 88 Adam Gaudette C 5 0 0 0 0 2 -- -- -- -- -- MA: Braintree 20 45 Michael Chaput C 9 0 0 0 5 -4 PQ: Ile-Bizard 25 hmm.... Thats really disappointing... Daniel only tied Boeser for 1st and Henrik was behind them.... WEIRD.... They really were washed up NHL Possession Metrics Henrik Sedin Corsi (All) Fenwick (All) PDO (All) Zone Starts (All) Season Age Team Lg GP TOI CF CA CF% CF% rel FF FA FF% FF% rel oiGF oiSH% oiGA oiSV% PDO oZS% dZS% Career NHL 848 16034.8 17959 11550 60.9 15.3 13426 9030 59.8 14.4 1026 10.6 590 91.2 101.8 68.7 31. 2007-08 27 VAN NHL 82 1596.9 1679 1111 60.2 14.9 1308 858 60.4 14.3 104 11.0 56 90.7 101.7 59.9 40.1 2008-09 28 VAN NHL 82 1583.6 1786 1162 60.6 15.8 1351 923 59.4 14.5 107 11.0 53 92.3 103.3 59.2 40.8 2009-10 29 VAN NHL 82 1612.6 1867 1209 60.7 13.5 1410 966 59.3 11.8 134 13.6 67 90.7 104.3 63.3 36.7 2010-11 30 VAN NHL 82 1579.3 1960 1122 63.6 16.2 1453 886 62.1 15.1 132 12.5 52 92.0 104.5 77.2 22.8 2011-12 31 VAN NHL 82 1565.2 1980 1027 65.8 17.2 1461 817 64.1 16.3 108 10.5 46 92.7 103.2 84.6 15.4 2012-13 32 VAN NHL 48 928.7 1075 548 66.2 20.2 776 432 64.2 19.4 57 10.5 23 93.3 103.8 70.3 29.7 2013-14 33 VAN NHL 70 1447.1 1687 1026 62.2 13.9 1239 773 61.6 12.2 69 7.9 49 91.0 98.9 68.0 32.0 2014-15 34 VAN NHL 82 1525.1 1604 1125 58.8 13.7 1208 841 59.0 12.8 103 11.6 57 90.2 101.8 61.3 38.7 2015-16 35 VAN NHL 74 1360.0 1398 1053 57.0 13.5 1061 823 56.3 13.7 73 9.7 48 92.2 101.9 66.3 33.7 2016-17 36 VAN NHL 82 1561.3 1513 1185 56.1 11.4 1106 940 54.1 10.3 65 8.0 76 89.2 97.3 66.8 33.2 2017-18 37 VAN NHL 82 1275.0 1410 982 58.9 14.5 1053 771 57.7 13.1 74 9.5 63 88.9 98.4 79.6 20.4 NHL Possession Metrics Daniel Sedin Corsi (All) Fenwick (All) PDO (All) Zone Starts (All) Season Age Team Lg GP TOI CF CA CF% CF% rel FF FA FF% FF% rel oiGF oiSH% oiGA oiSV% PDO oZS% dZS% Career NHL 828 15313.2 17303 10734 61.7 16.4 12955 8400 60.7 15.5 969 10.4 527 91.5 101.9 71.3 28.7 2007-08 27 VAN NHL 82 1558.9 1693 1008 62.7 18.2 1320 766 63.3 18.1 96 10.1 48 91.1 101.3 66.1 33.9 2008-09 28 VAN NHL 82 1524.1 1736 1056 62.2 17.7 1321 852 60.8 16.2 106 11.1 43 93.2 104.3 65.7 34.3 2009-10 29 VAN NHL 63 1203.8 1445 869 62.4 16.4 1095 689 61.4 15.4 108 13.8 47 90.7 104.5 70.2 29.8 2010-11 30 VAN NHL 82 1521.4 1917 1041 64.8 17.6 1414 830 63.0 15.9 130 12.8 44 92.9 105.7 80.7 19.3 2011-12 31 VAN NHL 72 1354.7 1740 860 66.9 18.5 1279 687 65.1 17.7 92 10.3 41 92.3 102.6 86.0 14.0 2012-13 32 VAN NHL 47 894.0 1055 509 67.5 22.0 751 402 65.1 20.6 53 10.2 24 92.7 102.8 73.4 26.6 2013-14 33 VAN NHL 73 1504.2 1749 1041 62.7 13.8 1306 779 62.6 13.7 69 7.4 48 91.2 98.6 68.0 32.0 2014-15 34 VAN NHL 82 1504.3 1556 1098 58.6 13.3 1178 833 58.6 12.2 97 11.1 57 90.2 101.3 61.8 38.2 2015-16 35 VAN NHL 82 1503.4 1514 1149 56.9 13.4 1152 910 55.9 13.1 82 9.8 50 92.6 102.4 66.5 33.5 2016-17 36 VAN NHL 82 1507.6 1487 1159 56.2 11.5 1083 912 54.3 10.6 65 8.3 65 90.7 98.9 67.9 32.1 2017-18 37 VAN NHL 81 1236.9 1411 944 59.9 15.8 1056 740 58.8 14.6 71 9.2 60 89.1 98.3 79.4 20.6 Those Tables are there entire season 5v5 and 5v4 included into their corsi and fenwick Heres just the 5v5 CF% rel -- Relative Corsi For % at Even Strength CF% - CFoff% On-Ice Corsi For % - Off-Ice Corsi For % FF% -- Fenwick For % in All Situations FF / (FF + FA) Above 50% means the team was controlling the puck more often than not with this player on the ice in this situation. So above 50% Corsi and Fenwick = team possessed the puck more than the opponent when player 'X' positive CF% rel = Canucks controlled the puck more when player 'X' is on the ice. NHL Possession Metrics Daniel Sedin Corsi (EV) Fenwick (EV) PDO (EV) Zone Starts (EV) Season Age Team Lg GP TOI CF CA CF% CF% rel FF FA FF% FF% rel oiGF oiSH% oiGA oiSV% PDO oZS% dZS% Career NHL 828 12129.1 12028 9845 55.0 7.2 9007 7656 54.1 6.5 601 9.2 474 91.6 100.7 64.0 36.0 2007-08 27 VAN NHL 82 1167.7 1114 915 54.9 7.6 874 691 55.8 8.4 51 8.2 43 91.1 99.3 57.6 42.4 2008-09 28 VAN NHL 82 1158.9 1134 961 54.1 7.4 859 776 52.5 5.5 67 10.5 39 93.3 103.7 54.0 46.0 2009-10 29 VAN NHL 63 955.0 1059 809 56.7 8.8 797 640 55.5 7.7 81 13.9 45 90.4 104.4 62.5 37.5 2010-11 30 VAN NHL 82 1212.1 1278 984 56.5 4.8 951 778 55.0 2.9 74 10.7 42 92.8 103.5 74.1 25.9 2011-12 31 VAN NHL 72 1096.6 1206 811 59.8 8.6 885 645 57.8 8.2 55 8.7 38 92.3 101.0 80.8 19.2 2012-13 32 VAN NHL 47 718.0 773 479 61.7 14.1 555 374 59.7 12.9 35 8.9 21 93.0 101.9 66.1 33.9 2013-14 33 VAN NHL 73 1175.4 1213 907 57.2 7.0 902 674 57.2 7.0 43 6.7 40 91.6 98.3 61.0 39.0 2014-15 34 VAN NHL 82 1187.3 1099 985 52.7 4.9 832 740 52.9 4.0 58 9.3 52 89.8 99.0 54.3 45.7 2015-16 35 VAN NHL 82 1198.3 1043 1038 50.1 3.9 793 817 49.3 3.7 53 9.1 43 92.8 101.9 59.9 40.1 2016-17 36 VAN NHL 82 1259.3 1121 1095 50.6 3.4 812 855 48.7 2.5 46 7.7 58 91.0 98.7 60.9 39.1 2017-18 37 VAN NHL 81 1000.6 988 861 53.4 7.3 747 666 52.9 6.8 38 6.8 53 89.1 96.0 74.1 25.9 NHL Possession Metrics Henrik Sedin Corsi (EV) Fenwick (EV) PDO (EV) Zone Starts (EV) Season Age Team Lg GP TOI CF CA CF% CF% rel FF FA FF% FF% rel oiGF oiSH% oiGA oiSV% PDO oZS% dZS% Career NHL 848 12670.4 12530 10460 54.5 6.6 9374 8131 53.6 5.7 645 9.5 523 91.2 100.7 62.8 37.2 2007-08 27 VAN NHL 82 1188.1 1098 989 52.6 4.4 856 756 53.1 4.7 57 9.3 50 90.4 99.7 54.7 45.3 2008-09 28 VAN NHL 82 1188.3 1181 1009 53.9 7.5 887 805 52.4 5.7 69 10.5 43 92.9 103.4 51.5 48.5 2009-10 29 VAN NHL 82 1261.5 1363 1077 55.9 7.1 1029 861 54.4 5.4 96 13.2 60 90.7 103.9 58.5 41.5 2010-11 30 VAN NHL 82 1266.7 1323 1061 55.5 3.6 991 833 54.3 2.3 76 10.4 49 92.0 102.4 71.1 28.9 2011-12 31 VAN NHL 82 1256.8 1368 977 58.3 7.0 1011 772 56.7 6.5 68 9.3 43 92.7 102.1 79.4 20.6 2012-13 32 VAN NHL 48 749.6 801 511 61.1 13.2 586 399 59.5 12.7 39 9.4 20 93.7 103.0 64.1 35.9 2013-14 33 VAN NHL 70 1136.1 1160 897 56.4 6.5 846 675 55.6 4.9 44 7.4 39 91.8 99.2 61.3 38.7 2014-15 34 VAN NHL 82 1203.1 1146 988 53.7 6.3 865 728 54.3 5.9 64 9.9 52 89.7 99.6 54.2 45.8 2015-16 35 VAN NHL 74 1081.5 966 931 50.9 4.7 733 720 50.4 5.0 45 8.6 41 92.3 100.9 60.6 39.4 2016-17 36 VAN NHL 82 1303.8 1140 1118 50.5 3.2 829 882 48.5 2.1 46 7.5 69 89.4 96.9 60.3 39.7 2017-18 37 VAN NHL 82 1035.1 984 902 52.2 5.6 741 700 51.4 4.8 41 7.3 57 88.8 96.1 74.0 26.0 1 The Sedin's lacked a decent supporting cast as their careers went on. They had a decent supporting cast in 2014-15 and they had very a successful season, the team was top 10 in the league (8th) and made the post season. 2. Even as their careers came winding down to an end they were still the top 2 relied upon guys, meaning..... Gillis's failed drafting let them down later in their careers because no one was there to take over the reigns or help the team win. 3. They still possessed the puck quite a lot. 4. +CF% rel means when the Sedins were on the ice, Vancouver possessed the puck quite a bit more than when any other combination of players were on the ice. 5. Once again, the Sedins meant possession. They were far from done. They lacked support. Team corsi in 2015-16 was 47.2 Daniel had 50.1 and Henrik had 50.9 Team corsi in 2016-17 was 47.9 Daniel had 50.6 and Henrik had 50.5 Team corsi in 2017-18 was 47.7 Daniel had 53.4 and Henrik had 52.2 the Sedins scored 20 + 22 points in the 2011 playoffs they combined foir 21 playoff points the rest of their careers you stated earlier that Jim spent the final years of the Sedin's careers trying to get them a cup (and so it was not a rebuild) but above you say they didn't have the supporting cast I asked earlier if the 2017 team was a cup contender (you did not answer) and now you are saying they didn't have a supporting cast so which is it? Cup team or no supporting cast? I infer that Jim was building a Cup contender with 2 aging stars and no supporting cast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grouse747 Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 cliff notes: you can't get something for nothing..... we can make a big trade. but at least one of the core 6 players or the 9th overall pick has to go. probably 2 of these assets if neither is QH or EP i don't understand many of the comments in here, 1) how many big name/top player trades are there in the NHL? most teams want to keep these players. and to me, it makes sense that they are most valuable to the teams where they are already playing very well. who knows with another team/city/coach/teammates? 2) how many teams are mentioned in these trades?... i also think players want to live/play in USA. players seem to stay down there when they retire. and i don't think the reverse is true 3) we have the assets to trade for a star (seth jones?).... trade EP or QH and maybe something moderate... or trade 2 of BB, BH, Demko, Miller, 9th pick overall (maybe have to add in 3rd moderate asset too)........ people don't want to trade players when they are playing well. and then their value is negatively impacted once they are injury-prone and/or don't play as well....... to get max value, you need to trade player at peak. but then people don't want to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Convincing John Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 On 7/5/2021 at 11:42 AM, NUCKER67 said: Cupboard is pretty bare, because Benning's good prospects are all being brought into the team. Last year's Draft was a wash, no 1st or 2nd. Benning needed to acquire as many higher round picks as he could over the last 5+ years. He didn't do that. Jim Benning is afraid of cap space and the future. Both go hand and hand in his present day debauchery. Judging from his alarming press conference, we are in for a Benning special with an order of Caesar salad on the side. The only asset he has is his 1st Pick. But we are so screwed that he probably won’t be able to free enough cap to receive a player equal to the price of acquiring that pick. Lol. You’re not going to receive a good player on a ELC Jim, lol. He is so bad that he actually prevents himself from making even bigger mistakes. He is so bad, that his failure at building a “Winning culture” allowed him to draft Hughes and EP while concurrently being unable to lock them up long term cause he has no cap space. The Best he has finished in 7 years is 17th OA yet we are maxed out in cap space with a ghetto prospect pool. Then people actually get mad when you question any of this. Patience is what they say. Ya, the very thing that got us all these horrible contracts so we could be competitive NOW. ….patience, Gillis, Gillis, Gillis, bare cupboards, NTC, Gillis, winning culture, Ownership’s fault, COVID, Luongo, flat cap. Gillis. Paper bags, huggy bears, wah! Gillis, look at Buffalo, go cheer for Toronto, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 6 minutes ago, Convincing John said: The only asset he has is his 1st Pick Statements like this are just silly, and completely factually incorrect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thundernuts Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 I'm sure every GM is involved in the majority of conversations involving "big names". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grouse747 Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 2 minutes ago, gurn said: Statements like this are just silly, and completely factually incorrect. i agree totally..... of course, hughes, demko etc. are great trade assets. i think people think you need to get something for nothing...... it's marginally ok only to trade something (the 9th pick) that isn't contributing to team now or in near future. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewbieCanuckFan Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 On 7/5/2021 at 12:02 PM, 24K PureCool said: Am I the only one thinking chasing these big names are just dumb? These big names get moved for a reason. Big names also tend to have some form of NTC (excluding UFAs). They tend to want to go to playoff teams or big US market teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Convincing John Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 10 minutes ago, gurn said: Statements like this are just silly, and completely factually incorrect. Ok, what mountain do we have in this organization that can be used to backfill the holes? To be substantially better we need: A 3rd line centre A top pairing RHD At least 1 top 6 forward Is Hammer and Edler coming back? What do we have to replace them? What space to we have to retain them? He is going to do whatever it takes to make the team better, tell me how he is going to do that without surrendering his 1st? Podz? Seriously, the other team wants to win the trade too, how is any of this possible? I’ll tell you how it’s possible, major, permanent damage to our team 5 years from now, that’s how. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alt kilgore Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 13 minutes ago, lmm said: the Sedins scored 20 + 22 points in the 2011 playoffs they combined foir 21 playoff points the rest of their careers you stated earlier that Jim spent the final years of the Sedin's careers trying to get them a cup (and so it was not a rebuild) but above you say they didn't have the supporting cast I asked earlier if the 2017 team was a cup contender (you did not answer) and now you are saying they didn't have a supporting cast so which is it? Cup team or no supporting cast? I infer that Jim was building a Cup contender with 2 aging stars and no supporting cast Bingo! Must be nice to be able to "win" an argument by just kicking the ball into whatever net is closest. If Excuse #1 is Jim was catering to the Sedins because they were still productive, by trading a second for Vey, and signing LE, and Gagner, and.... we all know the list through the years.......as support players to take us over the top...that was a failure too! There's no participation trophy for GMs. And by going all in every year with the "quick turnaround", "day to day" managing style in those first 4 seasons, it crippled and stalled the rebuild from within method. The alternative was "wasting" the Sedin's final years by not only keeping your draft picks and prospects you are entitled to, you actually add more! . (like Rangers, Ottawa, LA) instead of ending up with less than you are even allotted. And yes, the more the merrier. Even later round picks. Not just because down the road its better to develop your own players for a lot of reasons...first dibs, friendly cap hits, loyalty, familiarity with systems, even if they only end up on the third or fourth line. (Burrows ended up moving up nicely), but also to have enough you can package superfluous picks up when a great opportunity comes along. Starting the rebuild after we went out in the first round in 2015 would have been ideal. But I can see how that taste of playoffs would entice the owner, GM to delay the rebuild another season. And hindsight 20/20. But after dumping McCann and two more draft picks (a 2nd and 4th with one 5th back) for Gudbranson to go for it again in 2016, and failing spectacularly, THAT summer should have been the come to Jesus moment IMO. By then the Sedins would have been already gifted FOUR more seasons after 2011 to go for the Cup. But JB doubled down, and went for the brass ring again....enter Loui stage left. then Gagner, then... Then when this second "quick turnaround" didn't pan out.......Lets try it again! with a new round of foundational vets for even more picks out the door. And I gave JB the benefit of the doubt back then. I was a glass half full on JB. But its just a accumulation of bad deals, depleted cupboards, empty promises, and just dumb, simple mistakes like no communication with players who are anxiously looking to sign their next contract. Finally reached a boiling point last fall. Losing not only Toffoli, but Madden and a second as well. And a value RH d like Stecher. If you look at Value as a commodity, this team has been bleeding it for years. And its catching up at the exact wrong time. Wait til next summer when it will all come together! I hope all those that still are high on Jim are right about that. I truly do. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 12 minutes ago, Convincing John said: Ok, what mountain do we have in this organization that can be used to backfill the holes? To be substantially better we need: A 3rd line centre A top pairing RHD At least 1 top 6 forward Is Hammer and Edler coming back? What do we have to replace them? What space to we have to retain them? He is going to do whatever it takes to make the team better, tell me how he is going to do that without surrendering his 1st? Podz? Seriously, the other team wants to win the trade too, how is any of this possible? I’ll tell you how it’s possible, major, permanent damage to our team 5 years from now, that’s how. You said he had no assetts. Now you move the goal posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Convincing John Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 11 minutes ago, gurn said: You said he had no assetts. Now you move the goal posts. I added Podz. Is that what you’d like? Can we afford to trade Podz and a 1st to be a little better now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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