[Report] Canucks have made offers to UFAs Alex Edler and Travis Hamonic

[grandmaster]

4 hours ago, aGENT said:

And when they give up the puck? Get caught in their own end?

Dougie Hamilton is defensively sound. Check his metrics throughout his career and watch him play. Opinions like this is so bloody ignorant. 

[oldnews]

5 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

Edler was an absolute best in the bubble as well.  Looked like he'd turned the clock back five years.

yep - 7 points in those playoffs - all at even strength and +5, playing 23 minutes a game...the team's clear #1.  all of a sudden one covid season and the guy is done - people proposing to offer him less than a million, or let him retire....facepalm.

[RWJC]

Apparently showing up to camp overweight a couple times now and not ready to play up to level and earn his spot.

The current personal life situation.

The pressure imposed by everyone else upon him because of his draft position and being a local boy.

 

Too much spotlight too early. Some can handle it and some can't.

He hasn't shown the professionalism requisite of an NHL player despite given every, every opportunity to do so.

 

Only caveat to all this is that when he did get going on the ice, Green would then limit his ice time.  Never understood that but perhaps it was to try and motivate further.  

I think Jake has a sense of entitlement about him that management was trying to ween out.

 

[GB5]

11 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Meh. I disagree. He's earned his money by playing fairly well, but what exactly has he done to earn the right to retire a Canuck? Shouldn't Bieksa have earned that same right? Burrows? They bled blue and green and wore it on their sleeves more so than Edler. 

Good points. 

 

No one is entitled to an NHL job and it is very hard to shelter a sluggish defender with poor decision making skills.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 14, 2021 by GarthButcher5

[ChuckNORRIS4Cup]

16 minutes ago, oldnews said:

yawn.  cool story. 

And Eriksson's 'advanced stats' are not his problem and never have been - it's producing here that has been LE's problem.  Btw - LE was not the guy I wanted in that free agent class - but literally none of them turned out regardless.

 

Using him as a 'comparable' to Edler is just laughable though.  I'll take his actual outcomes over the countless one-liners in here, every time.

I have zero problem with 'defending' Edler - he's one of the best defensemen in franchise history - and it's the usual suspects fishbowling in here.

I'd love to see what Edler takes in free agency if this team were to pass on signing him.

 

 

Yawn exactly it's the same thing coming from you again to defend a player who's just not as good as you think anymore.

 

Okay you didn't want him, but you spent countless hours arguing with posters on here trying to defend him as a good player for the Canucks, when you clearly just had to watch the game and see he was useless, but no you continued to ignore this and argue with advanced stats and how good he was defensively for this team.

 

Again you're doing the exact same thing again with Edler instead of watching the games and seeing his decline on the ice, you relying on advanced stats to keep him, the same thing you did with Eriksson, but now people are supposed to take you serious and trust you... I don't think so anymore, hence why I said good luck with that, you can think what you want and try and convince posters your right all you want, Im not going to stop you, but good luck 

 

Oh and I see you seem sad with all those emjois your giving me all of a sudden so you must be sad here have a hug.

 

Edited July 14, 2021 by ChuckNORRIS4Cup

[PhillipBlunt]

Just now, GarthButcher5 said:

Good points. 

 

No one is entitled to an NHL job.

 

Exactly. Edler earned his money without a doubt. He played the minutes, laid the players out he needed to, scored the timely goals, and supported plenty of younger up and coming players. That's proven. 

 

Just don't see how that automatically should guarantee him the right to retire a Canuck.

[oldnews]

4 minutes ago, grandmaster said:

Dougie Hamilton is defensively sound. Check his metrics throughout his career and watch him play. Opinions like this is so bloody ignorant. 

Meh - Hamilton has played with Norris quality partners - Chara, Giordano and Slavin - his entire career. His 'metrics' can't be separated from that fact.

 

I'm not going to debate how 'sound' he is / would be on his own or as the principal defender on a pairing - but I will say that pairing him with Hughes is not something I'd want to see.
 

If this team were looking at a Hamilton - he'd have to be paired with Edler!!  

[aGENT]

10 minutes ago, grandmaster said:

Dougie Hamilton is defensively sound. Check his metrics throughout his career and watch him play. Opinions like this is so bloody ignorant. 

I never said he's poor defensively. He's better than (21 year old) Hughes. Still doesn't make him stellar defensively, physically aggressive or a good fit here.

Edited July 14, 2021 by aGENT

[King Heffy]

2 minutes ago, ChuckNORRIS4Cup said:

Yawn exactly it's the same thing coming from you again to defend a player who's just not as good as you think anymore.

 

Okay you didn't want him, but you spent countless hours arguing with posters on here trying to defend him as a good player for the Canucks, when you clearly just had to watch the game and see he was useless, but no you continued to ignore this and argue with advanced stats and how good he was defensively for this team.

 

Again you're doing the exact same thing again with Edler instead of watching the games and seeing his decline on the ice, you relying on advanced stats to keep him, the same thing you did with Eriksson, but now people are supposed to take you serious and trust you... I don't think so anymore, hence why I said good luck with that, you can think what you want and try and convince posters your right all you want, Im not going to stop you, but good luck 

Points, minutes played, and +/-are advanced stats now?

[ChuckNORRIS4Cup]

21 hours ago, oldnews said:

Edler

the  teams leading penalty killer at 3:27/game

hardest minutes on the blueline

32.2% ozone starts

44.4% corsi

team leader in blocked shots = 118

lead the blueline with 80 hits.

(61.4% of his ice time with Schmidt).

 

 

 

 

6 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

Points, minutes played, and +/-are advanced stats now?

 

[RWJC]

4 minutes ago, Kragar said:

Interesting news on Sutter, if true.  Hope that means they have a 3C lined up who's decent in the dot, cuz we haven't done well when Sutter and Beagle were both out in recent years.  Overloading Bo's defensive minutes is not a good thing for the team, no matter how well he can take it.

Totally, and if JB does pursue a Tyler Johnson type, that means we can roll 3 solid scoring lines where guys can move around and still play their O game (eg. Pearson, Hogz, maybe Podz too?). It just provides so much more flexibility. Try and balance minutes more effectively between that and a legit shut down 4th line with energy (Motte, maybe Highmore, maybe Gadj, etc) that can establish chemistry and we are looking ok.  This team has upcoming major talent/firepower upfront who aren't even close to entering their prime. Change the current systems and let it loose with a little less demand on them for a two way game. Allow Shaw to figure out how to balance the back end to support it best. Our strength is in our offence right now. We should be using that better until the D can be improved. I hate seeing offensive minded guys being forced into playing a 2 way game and then overcompensating because of a coach's demand on them. It's not always effective and ruins confidence. Thankfully we have a captain and a character guy who accepted the change in his role and wore it on his sleeve. Doesn't mean everybody can do the same. Gotta play to strengths. Again just my opinion.

[Ajax-]

4 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Depends what you consider top 4?  Given his ability on the pk and playing hard mins, I'd bet he'd be a top 4 guy in TOI on Tampa.  He might not play top 4 mins 5v5, but at the end of the game I think you'd find Edler with top 4 mins overall.  He's slowed down, but he still plays a solid, rugged defensive game.

 

As another poster said, the Canucks need more of that, not less

 

This is what you wrote.  If he's not even in the lineup how is he getting top 4 minutes?  Also, in order for him to be on the PK he'd have to beat out Hedman, Sergachev, Cernak and Savard.

 

Listen, I like Edler and think he is a Canuck legend, but his past due date was a long time ago, he's much slower than he used to be and not as aggressive either.  He will be a good mentor for Juolevi and Rathbone and I have no problem with him rotating in and out of the lineup next year.  But if he is re-signed to a $3 million+ contract with the expectation that he will be in the top 4 again on a regular basis next year playing the hard minutes I will be very disappointed in Benning and Green.

If he were to resign, and if coach Green playes him in a top 4 regular role........ would that not be because he's better than the other defenceman Green has available?

 

I hope he resigns to a team friendly contract 

[King Heffy]

2 minutes ago, ChuckNORRIS4Cup said:

 

 

 

19 minutes ago, oldnews said:

yep - 7 points in those playoffs - all at even strength and +5, playing 23 minutes a game...the team's clear #1.  all of a sudden one covid season and the guy is done - people proposing to offer him less than a million, or let him retire....facepalm.

 

[oldnews]

2 minutes ago, ChuckNORRIS4Cup said:

Yawn exactly it's the same thing coming from you again to defend a player who's just not as good as you think anymore.

 

Okay you didn't want him, but you spent countless hours arguing with posters

get real.  I wasn't high on signing Eriksson - I simply pointed out - took me literally 60 seconds to do so - that he was a two way forward, multiple Selke candidate and 60pt 30/30+ player - the year this team signed him.  laughable revisionism to pretend this team signed a declined player - that was entirely post-arrival.

but carry on with your irrelevent necro nonsense where  you quote literally nothign - and evidently have no response to Edler's actual outcomes.

And again, making a comparable of him - to Edler - is absurd. 

Edler has been a hard minutes, work horse of a defenseman - this team's #1 right through to this past season - a season with a ton of mitigating circumstances where literally every veteran on the roster was gassed and looked completely spent. 

I have little doubt that Edler will have a better season under 'normal' circumstances - and I'd expect the entire team to - a team that literally had more than half a lineup of replacement, waiver, and AHL callups on the ice for a large portion of the season.  I'm going to go with the far larger samples and indicators than to fishbowl Edler.

I'd love to hear the alternative proposals though - from people that have no answers, simply premature sandbagging of one of the franchise's best of all time.

[Beefcake]

so if you let Edler and Hamonic leave who do you replace them with ??

[oldnews]

3 minutes ago, ChuckNORRIS4Cup said:

 

 

[Dekey Pete]

1 minute ago, oldnews said:

get real.  I wasn't high on signing Eriksson - I simply pointed out - took me literally 60 seconds to do so - that he was a two way forward, multiple Selke candidate and 60pt 30/30+ player - the year this team signed him.  laughable revisionism to pretend this team signed a declined player - that was entirely post-arrival.

but carry on with your irrelevent necro nonsense where  you quote literally nothign - and evidently have no response to Edler's actual outcomes.

And again, making a comparable of him - to Edler - is absurd. 

Edler has been a hard minutes, work horse of a defenseman - this team's #1 right through to this past season - a season with a ton of mitigating circumstances where literally every veteran on the roster was gassed and looked completely spent. 

I have little doubt that Edler will have a better season under 'normal' circumstances - and I'd expect the entire team to - a team that literally had more than half a lineup of replacement, waiver, and AHL callups on the ice for a large portion of the season.  I'm going to go with the far larger samples and indicators than to fishbowl Edler.

I'd love to hear the alternative proposals though - from people that have no answers, simply premature sandbagging of one of the franchise's best of all time.

Those same people sandbagging him will blow their lids when Jim goes out and spends $8+ mil plus assets on OEL to replace him.  Or any other UFA defenseman that is going to command top dollar.  Edler is on the downswing of his career, sure, but he's still a quality NHL defenseman if he's used right.  People have been crapping on him for as long as I can remember when he has a bad stretch, going back years.  Unfortunately when you are a bottom dwelling team your defense are gonna look bad...

[ChuckNORRIS4Cup]

1 minute ago, oldnews said:

get real.  I wasn't high on signing Eriksson - I simply pointed out - took me literally 60 seconds to do so - that he was a two way forward, multiple Selke candidate and 60pt 30/30+ player - the year this team signed him.  laughable revisionism to pretend this team signed a declined player - that was entirely post-arrival.

but carry on with your irrelevent necro nonsense where  you quote literally nothign - and evidently have no response to Edler's actual outcomes.

And again, making a comparable of him - to Edler - is absurd. 

Edler has been a hard minutes, work horse of a defenseman - this team's #1 right through to this past season - a season with a ton of mitigating circumstances where literally every veteran on the roster was gassed and looked completely spent. 

I have little doubt that Edler will have a better season under 'normal' circumstances - and I'd expect the entire team to - a team that literally had more than half a lineup of replacement, waiver, and AHL callups on the ice for a large portion of the season.  I'm going to go with the far larger samples and indicators than to fishbowl Edler.

I'd love to hear the alternative proposals though - from people that have no answers, simply premature sandbagging of one of the franchise's best of all time.

Get real maybe you should of got real instead of attacking posters for all those years defending him, how are you still trying to act like none of that happened get over yourself already,  admit you were wrong already for once, why is that so hard for you to accept?  

 

You can't rely on Edler for big minutes at all, but the way this team is formed you almost have to and that is why it's a mistake. He's going to be put into top 4 roles and relied on still when in reality he can't be, and to why he shouldn't be resigned in the first place to be even put in those roles anymore, go find some other players first then sign him after you find others for his role first.

[combover]

4 minutes ago, Beefcake said:

so if you let Edler and Hamonic leave who do you replace them with ??

Funny how guys continue to praise the drafting of our gm yet everyone seems to be terrified to go with the guys he’s drafted.

 

Better resign some more tired old slow vets on the tail end of their careers it’s worked so well for the past 7 seasons. 
aggressive offseason = resign same players hope for a better result. Aggressive lol. 
 

[King Heffy]

4 minutes ago, Dekey Pete said:

Those same people sandbagging him will blow their lids when Jim goes out and spends $8+ mil plus assets on OEL to replace him.  Or any other UFA defenseman that is going to command top dollar.  Edler is on the downswing of his career, sure, but he's still a quality NHL defenseman if he's used right.  People have been crapping on him for as long as I can remember when he has a bad stretch, going back years.  Unfortunately when you are a bottom dwelling team your defense are gonna look bad...

I'm pretty guilty of that myself during the Torts year, as well as the last year of AV.