[Trade] Canucks Trade for Dickinson from DAL for a 3rd.

[Convincing John]

26 minutes ago, The Lock said:

Except you don't know if you've watched the player more than anyone or not. It's these assumptions that make you sound like a pretend know-it-all rather than someone who actually knows something about the player.

 

Anyone can say anything. I could literally right now say I know more than you, but I would be no more in the right or wrong than you would if you said you knew more than me, so don't pretend if you want anyone to take you seriously.

Does this look like Texas? Cause that’s where I am and have no other games to watch when I’m at work but the Dallas Stars. Trust me when I tell you I’ve watched this guy a lot. 

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Convincing John said:

This is a perfect example of the over hype I’m talking about. He is barely a centre man. He is under contract for 1 year. I don’t understand how everyone just dismissed that detail. I don’t even care that much it’s just this overhype is nauseous. Seriously everyone, this isn’t “The 3rd line C” we’ve been looking for. We need a 3C that can take the defensive zone draws away from Horvat.

I’ll admit that you sure are entertaining.  Beagle is back, so he’s going to take pretty much every D zone draw, when most needed.  And Miller can take D zone draws too.  Dickinson will be a hard to play against bottom six guy, who shuts down the other teams’ top lines.  That is a huge piece to have.  

[Ghostsof1915]

2 minutes ago, Convincing John said:

This is a perfect example of the over hype I’m talking about. He is barely a centre man. He is under contract for 1 year. I don’t understand how everyone just dismissed that detail. I don’t even care that much it’s just this overhype is nauseous. Seriously everyone, this isn’t “The 3rd line C” we’ve been looking for. We need a 3C that can take the defensive zone draws away from Horvat.

How is saying he's a bottom 6 forward who can play #3 or 4 C hype? 

Hype is seeing the loss of a 3rd round pick as some type of cosmic disaster. 

You might want to read that article on the previous page which diagnoses him as a pretty good defensive forward. 

And that his f/o percentage is that he struggles against tougher more experienced face off specialists. 

Did you expect Vancouver to get Seth Jones for a 3rd? 

[Convincing John]

6 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

How is saying he's a bottom 6 forward who can play #3 or 4 C hype? 

Hype is seeing the loss of a 3rd round pick as some type of cosmic disaster. 

You might want to read that article on the previous page which diagnoses him as a pretty good defensive forward. 

And that his f/o percentage is that he struggles against tougher more experienced face off specialists. 

Did you expect Vancouver to get Seth Jones for a 3rd? 

Who knows? With JB’s drafting record, we could get Seth Jones. We are focusing on fixing something that can’t be addressed with our cap space. This organization needs to focus on replenishing our prospect pool so we have these guys to graduate when our time comes. We are trading away picks and prospects for quick fixes the last few seasons and it’s starting to reflect on our pool. Look at Hoglander and Rathbone. We are giving chances away for more players like this down the road when we are actually on the verge of contention. Jim is too good at drafting to be throwing picks around for immediate marginal improvement. 

[JM_]

15 hours ago, Convincing John said:

Like I said before, he is ok I guess but definitely nothing to be pumped up about and too little for a 3rd. Jim is good at drafting so that 3rd could end up being useful player when our real window opens and the new GM is making things happen to put us over the top. We spent a 3rd on a very 1 dimensional player under contract for a season. Why are you so excited? 

the chances of getting a good player in the 3rd round are pretty low, and usually takes 4-5 years to see something on the ice. We do need to shore up our defensive play and a guy like this seems to me like a good fit.

 

The guy does have some pretty interesting stats - but you seem to be saying he's not worth a 3rd so I guess thats the disconnect here. 

 

What I'd like to know from you watching him is, if he's 1 dimensional, how did he end up playing 15-16 minutes per night? 

 

Just looking at his line combo's it looks to me like he was a useful tool for them but I didn't watch Dallas for 1 minute this year (https://frozenpool.dobbersports.com/players/jason-dickinson). 

 

I agree he's likely not the full answer to the 3C problem, but he does seem like a useful piece, no?

[Convincing John]

3 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

the chances of getting a good player in the 3rd round are pretty low, and usually takes 4-5 years to see something on the ice. We do need to shore up our defensive play and a guy like this seems to me like a good fit.

 

The guy does have some pretty interesting stats - but you seem to be saying he's not worth a 3rd so I guess thats the disconnect here. 

 

What I'd like to know from you watching him is, if he's 1 dimensional, how did he end up playing 15-16 minutes per night? 

 

Just looking at his line combo's it looks to me like he was a useful tool for them but I didn't watch Dallas for 1 minute this year (https://frozenpool.dobbersports.com/players/jason-dickinson). 

 

I agree he's likely not the full answer to the 3C problem, but he does seem like a useful piece, no?

A useful piece for what? Getting knocked out of the first round? 

[Canucks Curse]

JB did mention that he has played wing a fair amount. a 3rd round pick is not a heavy price for this player, I think it is a really good deal actually. He is a bottom 6 player we need and if we cannot get a better 3C then he is worth a shot. The price for mason Appleton was rumoured to be a 2nd and a prospect- no thanks to that, happier with the 3rd for this player.

[JM_]

Just now, Convincing John said:

A useful piece for what? Getting knocked out of the first round? 

he was there the year before wasn't he?

 

I get your point about getting more picks and prospects in the pipeline for sure. But there's also some gaping holes in the bottom 6. I don't want to see Vesey or some other waiver pickup, I'd prefer to see a guy who can actually contribute to the team defence and it seems like Dickinson can do that. 

 

 

[Convincing John]

6 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

he was there the year before wasn't he?

 

I get your point about getting more picks and prospects in the pipeline for sure. But there's also some gaping holes in the bottom 6. I don't want to see Vesey or some other waiver pickup, I'd prefer to see a guy who can actually contribute to the team defence and it seems like Dickinson can do that. 

 

 

If we don’t address the pool this will be a constant cycle of giving up the future for now. We see it all the time. Especially with Canadian franchises cause of the pressure they have to win. I honestly think it’s a contributing factor to why a Canadian franchise hasn’t won since 93. We are too quick to jump out of the basement and we never end up with a mountain of prospects and futures. We are always trying to fill the holes on the fly. 

[Bertuzzipunch]

2 minutes ago, Convincing John said:

If we don’t address the pool this will be a constant cycle of giving up the future for now. We see it all the time. Especially with Canadian franchises cause of the pressure they have to win. I honestly think it’s a contributing factor to why a Canadian franchise hasn’t won since 93. We are too quick to jump out of the basement and we never end up with a mountain of prospects and futures. We are always trying to fill the holes on the fly. 

We have our 1st and 2nd were good

[WHL rocks]

7 minutes ago, Convincing John said:

If we don’t address the pool this will be a constant cycle of giving up the future for now. We see it all the time. Especially with Canadian franchises cause of the pressure they have to win. I honestly think it’s a contributing factor to why a Canadian franchise hasn’t won since 93. We are too quick to jump out of the basement and we never end up with a mountain of prospects and futures. We are always trying to fill the holes on the fly. 

Completely agree. 

[Convincing John]

14 minutes ago, Bertuzzipunch said:

We have our 1st and 2nd were good

We are not good. We need to be in the position where when our RFA’s get to the big contracts we have the option of keeping them, or letting them go and backfilling the hole with our prospect pool. Spending 3rds on players under contract for a season isn’t going to get us there.  

[Bertuzzipunch]

Just now, Convincing John said:

We are not good. We need to be in the position where when our RFA’s get to the big contracts we have the option of keeping them, or letting them go and backfilling the hole with our prospect pool. Spending 3rds on players under contract for a season isn’t going to get us there.  

Nah were good

[Gawdzukes]

34 minutes ago, Alflives said:

I’ll admit that you sure are entertaining.  Beagle is back, so he’s going to take pretty much every D zone draw, when most needed.  And Miller can take D zone draws too.  Dickinson will be a hard to play against bottom six guy, who shuts down the other teams’ top lines.  That is a huge piece to have.  

Also, Dickinson doesn't need to be deadly at face-offs, and I'm sure he'll improve if penciled in there with the directive to focus on that. Jim has said he'll have every opportunity to be the 3c. If so I bet you he gets close to 50% anyway. We have some of the best face-off people in the league to work with. He's the type of player that goes right after the other team and gets the puck back or out one way or another anyway. His face-off percentage while not great certainly hasn't been an obstacle.

 

Trolling John seems to think he's special because he has a tv in Dallas. Apparently he thinks he's the only one that watches Dickinson. We have this little thing in Canada called Center Ice that lets us watch every game. Every time I watch him I respect how hard he plays the game and how difficult he is to play against. My eyes lit up when I saw the trade. He's always stood out to me as someone I would rather have on my team than play against. There is a reason Dallas is a defensive juggernaut and he was definitely an important part of that. 

 

All we need to do now is pick up a nice offensive piece in free agency to balance our line-up out. Anyone that bothered to pay attention to the Canucks last year saw how shelled we were defensively. Picking up one of the better defensive players in the league, who is 26 is a no brainer great move. Unless you're a sniveling, whiny, bitch. of course.

[CaptKirk888]

17 hours ago, ChuckNORRIS4Cup said:

He is an unknown for many, especially for those people who don't follow those sisters over there 

Just as our bottom 6 are most likely unknown by other fan bases.

[JM_]

22 minutes ago, Convincing John said:

If we don’t address the pool this will be a constant cycle of giving up the future for now. We see it all the time. Especially with Canadian franchises cause of the pressure they have to win. I honestly think it’s a contributing factor to why a Canadian franchise hasn’t won since 93. We are too quick to jump out of the basement and we never end up with a mountain of prospects and futures. We are always trying to fill the holes on the fly. 

I don't disagree with that in principle. Sometimes it does make sense to move a pick tho as long as it isn't detrimental to the future. 

 

In this case, if Dickinson is say a cost effective piece for 4 or 5 years then I see it as a win. If Benning had done this for a 30+ year old guy I could see the outrage. I also see that the gap is one of our own making. 

 

All I really care about is: can this guy help us prevent giving up the most shots in the league? 

[lmm]

55 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Because you refuse to see the bigger picture in his game. He's here to be the #3 centre and replace Sutter. We're not bringing him in to win the Art Ross Trophy. 

Now if he's good enough to win the Selke Trophy that would be amazing. The Canucks need a shutdown centre. That is what Benning got. I just want a reliable defensive minded forward. If he scores some clutch assists or goals so much the better. If he get's 10-20 points and helps cut down Vancouver's shots and goals against then Benning has done his job. CDC is giving you the rope, you choose to hang your self with it, or just play tug o war. 

I think Convincing John is a little over the top, but really no different thatn Fannimex, just the other side of the coin.

personally I'll have a wait n see attitude on this trade

Jimmy Vesey and Travis Boyd are both .3ppg players, but were a combined .12 ppg in Vancouver

I think it would be amazing if Dickinson got one vote for the Selke

as Bergeron has the lowest ppg of any Selke winner in the last 6 years at .667 (2017, not career) , double Dickinson's rate.

further, Dickinson is about 6 months younger than Brandon Sutter was when he came to Vancouver

Sutter , Vesey and Boyd all stalled in Vancouver, we can only hope Jason Dickinson bucks the trend and progress'

but a Selke winner seems Pie in the Sky hopeful

[Bertuzzipunch]

Honestly tho when have that 20+ mill opening up next season with only having to re-sign brock, rathbone and motte theirs no reason we cant take in bad contracts for draft picks. Especially if we can fix our defense this year. 

[204CanucksFan]

39 minutes ago, Convincing John said:

This is a perfect example of the over hype I’m talking about. He is barely a centre man. He is under contract for 1 year. I don’t understand how everyone just dismissed that detail. I don’t even care that much it’s just this overhype is nauseous. Seriously everyone, this isn’t “The 3rd line C” we’ve been looking for. We need a 3C that can take the defensive zone draws away from Horvat.

The bold is just part of your glaring ignorance when it comes to this player. You claim to of 'watched him more than anyone else on here' and know more about him than other CDC users and yet you keep repeating that he is only 'under contract for 1 year' He is not under contract for 1 year... He is a RFA with arbitration rights. He is currently UNSIGNED and is in need of a new contract. 

 

Is he going to be the savior of the Canucks and carry the team to a Stanley Cup? No, and no one here is saying that he will. But you just seem to want to trash every move this team makes just for the sake of trashing the team. 

 

You want to keep bringing up that he is currently a 0.3 ppg career player but you don't want to mention that he spent most of last season on a line with an offensively struggling Benn and Gurianov, consistently matching up against and shutting down the other teams top two lines.

 

You also want to keep mentioning that he has a career faceoff percentage of 44.3% and that you want a 3C that 'can take defensive zone draws away from Horvat'. But you don't mention that Dickinson has gotten better at faceoffs every year for the last 3 years, almost as if players can improve with practice... to the point of being almost 47% at draws last season. And as for taking defensive draws Dickinson started over 60% of his shifts last season in the d zone and had the 2nd most shorthanded ice time of any Dallas forward. Clearly his last coach trusted him and his skills to use him in d zone faceoffs.

 

You can keep quoting off your surface level 5 second Google search stats but a little bit of in depth research shows very quickly how little you actually know about this player despite you claims of superior knowledge.

[awalk]

31 minutes ago, Convincing John said:

If we don’t address the pool this will be a constant cycle of giving up the future for now. We see it all the time. Especially with Canadian franchises cause of the pressure they have to win. I honestly think it’s a contributing factor to why a Canadian franchise hasn’t won since 93. We are too quick to jump out of the basement and we never end up with a mountain of prospects and futures. We are always trying to fill the holes on the fly. 

For some reason, no matter who is running the team, we always seem to be short on prospects, assets, and cap space. Might have something to do with attempting to fill holes on the fly for the past 3 decades