Chris12345 Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said: They also have a surplus of defencemen. Defencemen are valuable trade pieces. So I see logic in their picks. However I'm still curious about the statement that no side deals were done. Looking at some of the picks, that would surprise me a great deal. I think the no side deals is a stretch and there are deals coming. Either that or he took players he could waive. He knew some guys wouldn't make the team so he didn't want to get stuck with them. You can't start the year with 30 players and as much as we all like certain players some aren't movable. Edited July 22, 2021 by Chris12345 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 (edited) I am honestly not sure what people were expecting? He was going to have a choice of the 8th best forward from most teams (except the ones that went with 8 skaters)… so having a team with mostly 3rd liners is exactly what he was offered. He has a really good defence already with plenty of extra depth to trade as assets. He said publicly that cap space was the most valuable asset in the league right now and he picked accordingly by not taking on anyone’s bad contract headaches for free. He signed Larson and Oleksiak to pretty team friendly deals, almost certainly less than they would have gotten on the open market. He has effectively a full roster and is over $7 million below the floor. Now it will be the deals to take on the bad cap and the players on the Kraken roster are exactly the currency he needs to send back…. Cheap solid players. Teams who are dumping cap don’t want to take money back. There isn’t a player they don’t have the money for right now. Eichel, Hamilton, etc. The good news if there is any is that it is an extra team willing to absorb cap so the price for doing so might drop a little. Maybe suddenly Ottawa and Detroit aren’t completely in the driver’s seat on that front. As it stands, the Kraken have the most cap space going into free agency to beat any other bids… and they may even wait until they have secured the UFAs they want before giving cap relief to other teams who would want to be bidding against them in that market. Edited July 22, 2021 by Provost 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Googlie Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 (edited) Quote: I think the no side deals is a stretch and there are deals coming. Wasn't that clarified? No side deals as in "we'll give you Player A if you select Player B", but some deals as is rumored with Calgary - "pick Pitlick and well buy him from you for a 2nd" For all we know, Benning might have one of these in place for a D Plus, Francis has said that there are a few trades coming, but not as many as the Media might think Edited July 22, 2021 by Googlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 Krackheads seriously into analytics, and (apparently) a lot of their picks were numbers darlings. Worked great fir the Coyotes, so should work good for the Krackheads. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 Just now, Alflives said: Krackheads seriously into analytics, and (apparently) a lot of their picks were numbers darlings. Worked great fir the Coyotes, so should work good for the Krackheads. Worked well for Tampa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewbieCanuckFan Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 Just now, Alflives said: Krackheads seriously into analytics, and (apparently) a lot of their picks were numbers darlings. Worked great fir the Coyotes, so should work good for the Krackheads. Yotes can't spend money (there's a reason why they took on those LTIR contracts.......to hit the cap floor without paying for those salaries [insurance covers that] & the reason why Ferland has negative value as his contract isn't insured). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 3 minutes ago, mll said: Worked well for Tampa. Nice try. Drafting Headman, Stamkos, and Vasi worked well for Tampa. Krackheads will suckaroo! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Alflives said: Nice try. Drafting Headman, Stamkos, and Vasi worked well for Tampa. Krackheads will suckaroo! Stamkos was 9th in ice time among their Fs in the post-season. They still used analytics/tracking technology to identify their needs and build their roster. Probably also to scout opponents. Edited July 22, 2021 by mll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzle Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 1 hour ago, Googlie said: I dont get all this dissing of the picks. I see a team of Alex Tuchs coming full bore at us. What was he with the Wild? 6 NHL games, zero goals, zero assists. But 6'4" and 220 lbs. That's what Francis has done, filled his team with a bunch of Tuchs A lot of players at 6'4 don't end up being NHL players. It's pretty risky to be a 'size Queen' when your team has natural expectations to perform, and the game is not entirely about size anymore. Besides, Francis got a couple of 5'9 guys as well. It is a young team, but the reliance of analytics in doing these picks could backfire badly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzle Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 54 minutes ago, mll said: Worked well for Tampa. Let's be honest. Tampa didn't win because of superior analytics. They already had a good team regardless of the deep dive in numbers. Good teams have eye tests plus analytics. A team dedicated to analytics however has not been successful, as Alf snidely pointed out. Coyotes sucked. I found this article to be really fun to read. https://puckprose.com/2019/05/03/moneyball-type-analytics-will-never-work-professional-hockey/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 1 minute ago, Dazzle said: Let's be honest. Tampa didn't win because of superior analytics. They already had a good team regardless of the deep dive in numbers. Good teams have eye tests plus analytics. A team dedicated to analytics however has not been successful, as Alf snidely pointed out. Coyotes sucked. I found this article to be really fun to read. https://puckprose.com/2019/05/03/moneyball-type-analytics-will-never-work-professional-hockey/ Never said superior analytics. There's this antiquated idea that it's one or the other when most teams probably use a combination. It's a useful tool when used well. 1st step understand what they mean and their limitations. Brad Shaw is into numbers and even constructed his own metrics. CBJ also uses Sportlogiq like Tampa and many other teams. Fwiw Drance scoffs at the idea that Chayka was an analytics GM. Says he's an outlier in the analytics community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris12345 Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 1 hour ago, Googlie said: Quote: I think the no side deals is a stretch and there are deals coming. Wasn't that clarified? No side deals as in "we'll give you Player A if you select Player B", but some deals as is rumored with Calgary - "pick Pitlick and well buy him from you for a 2nd" For all we know, Benning might have one of these in place for a D Plus, Francis has said that there are a few trades coming, but not as many as the Media might think You are 100% correct I just don't always trust what I read. There could still be deals coming that were predetermined but not yet official? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 3 minutes ago, Chris12345 said: You are 100% correct I just don't always trust what I read. There could still be deals coming that were predetermined but not yet official? Francis confirmed there were no side deals for expansion. There are apparently a few trades for players picked though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patel Bure Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 14 hours ago, justathought said: Managing their budget really well. Bunch of hard working, heavy hitting guys...Going to be painful. Hate to admit it but you are 100% correct. They are playing this VERY smart. Even with one more major free agent add, they’ll still have TONS of space. Wouldn’t be surprised at all to see one of Danault or Hamilton go there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzle Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 10 minutes ago, mll said: Never said superior analytics. There's this antiquated idea that it's one or the other when most teams probably use a combination. It's a useful tool when used well. 1st step understand what they mean and their limitations. Brad Shaw is into numbers and even constructed his own metrics. CBJ also uses Sportlogiq like Tampa and many other teams. Fwiw Drance scoffs at the idea that Chayka was an analytics GM. Says he's an outlier in the analytics community. Drance also said that Lou Lam was an amazing GM who should be GM of the year for throwing away a 2nd round pick this year, a 2nd round pick next year and a 3rd round pick in 2023 - to clear 5.5 mill of dead cap. The premise was that he didn't have to use a 1st rounder to do it. Drance has these terrible takes that really make him a bit of a parrot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Kneel Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 3 hours ago, Chris12345 said: I might be the only one but I think their D is stacked. Gio Lauzon Oleksiak Larsson Soucy Dunn Fleury (2) That's an NHL lineup any day. Wonder what it would cost for one of these extra pieces Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKNuck96 Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 (edited) For me the only way some of the picks make sense is if they already have other moves lined up, most likely sending out cheap contracts to eat bigger ones back and getting other assets as well, one things for sure though this won’t be anywhere close to their final roster ie take a cheap player from a team to then trade said player back to them as potential cap relief on a big contract. we may see price still in Seattle but they trade a cheap player to the habs and the Habs pay in picks and prospects. if GMs were not going to bite upfront by doing it after allows them to trade the players back to the team for the same input but after the fact Edited July 22, 2021 by UKNuck96 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Kneel Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 1 hour ago, Patel Bure said: Hate to admit it but you are 100% correct. They are playing this VERY smart. Even with one more major free agent add, they’ll still have TONS of space. Wouldn’t be surprised at all to see one of Danault or Hamilton go there. I think they have enough D I think they are going after scoring forwards to balance them out. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKNuck96 Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 2 hours ago, Dazzle said: Let's be honest. Tampa didn't win because of superior analytics. They already had a good team regardless of the deep dive in numbers. Good teams have eye tests plus analytics. A team dedicated to analytics however has not been successful, as Alf snidely pointed out. Coyotes sucked. I found this article to be really fun to read. https://puckprose.com/2019/05/03/moneyball-type-analytics-will-never-work-professional-hockey/ In any environment analytics gives you the picture but not the answer. It gives you the information to help guide a decision but you should never rely on them alone. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patel Bure Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 3 minutes ago, Hairy Kneel said: I think they have enough D I think they are going after scoring forwards to balance them out. Agreed. In that case, Danault might be a target for them. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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