[Trade] Canucks trade Jay Beagle, Loui Eriksson, Antoine Roussel, 2021 1st-round pick, 2022 2nd-round pick, 2023 7th-round pick to Coyotes for Oliver Ekman-Larsson, Conor Garland

[Phat Fingers]

21 hours ago, Ray_Cathode said:

If Benning pulls off this debacle, it will just prove that he has learned nothing from the Eriksson, Beagle, and Roussel trades. There is only ONE year left on each of those awful deals, where he acquired players over or approaching thirty on multi year vastly over-priced deals for players that either have, or are teetering on, these players’ years of rapid decline.

 

Each of those players’ production declined sharply from the time they were acquired. Oh, and add Sutter to that same list. Ekman-Larson has been in decline from the time he got his EIGHT year contract, two years ago. As a re-inforcer, he just added Schmidt to that list of rapidly fading, superannuated, overpaid failures. Can’t blame the player... they just took the money. An NHL career, for the vast majority of players, is short, and theses players are no exception. Signing the vast majority of players approaching thirty, to high price, long term contracts, is absurdly stupid.

 

Benning appears to be doubling down on daft. This ridiculous trade would commit us to SIX more high priced years with Ekaman-Larsen, in order to get rid of one year each of Eriksson, Roussel, and Beagle. Arizona should be sending us the draft picks for getting rid of six years of Ekman-Larsen. We are rid of Eriksson et-al in a year. Benning is trading the crippling effect of  his prior bad trades for six years of Ekman-Larsen, and giving up a high first and a second for the privilege. If you think second picks have no value - Demko and Hoglander are second picks. 
 

If the owner’s weren’t asleep at the wheel, Benning would be down the road. Enough already. If they do this trade, I am done with them, and who exactly is going to populate that team in Abbotsford, with no draft picks of any worth to develop there, because we don’t draft hardly at all from Canadian Junior leagues - normally the players who need multi year development in the AHL. Most of our development now happens in Europe, so why the heck should I get season tickets in Abbotsford.

 

I live in Abbotsford, time to cultivate some support for the Kraken. It looks like they may have a team worth cheering for. What an immense disappointment are the Canucks.

Ray, 

 

 

you have been waiting a long time to cheer a local product and JV was just salt in the wound for many people.  
 

but the east coast moved west, Kinda hope the team gets named the Abbey Heat, or Fire, Or Inferno, but you have an AHl team.  
 

welcome to the Utica Blues.  Even if the 9th over all was kept, likely never see ice in Abbey any more than Podz.  
 

clearly JB was kept with a goal in mind by ownership to clean up his mess and start the restocking from there.  They know he can draft.  Had GMMG drafted, he would still be here.  
 

so giving up a pick, even a first is tough.  We did it fo Miller,1st and 3rd.  This is a 1st and 2nd and 7th. We were going to go out and sign say Dougie Hamilton.  What’s that going to cost?  How many teams moved Dougie Hamilton over his career?  Don’t leave out TO.  
 

OEL is giving the club a better Edler at 1m more per year for 6 more years.  At minimum.  
 

different player, largely better player in OEL, safe to say.  
 

so bye Hamonic?  Maybe or bye Schmidt.  It’s not like Schmidt isn’t being asked about, there is a lot of big pieces yet to fall into place, so the defence isn’t set, belying 1 and 2.   We have a legit 1 and 2 d man.  Like it or lump it, 6 million on a scoring winger that loses scoring touch is a lot different that 7 million on a minute eating, plays match ups and all situations defence man with a declining really great offensive game.  That declining game might improve if he slides into the RHD between Hughes and Petey.  Just a thought.  
 

Doubt Schmidt moves for a bit, maybe chooses to stay.  Miller drops down a bit and we have a Veteran per pairing if the club wants to keep the other defenders on the cheaper and rookie side of the ledger.  
 

having likely 28m in our top 4 is alot.  But it’s our top 4.  
 

and it’s just a shade bad of a legit top 4 which I think Miller if not counted on for PP and maybe looks to be more of a large decently mobile defender that needs to focus on the safe play to an outlet player more often than not.  Less pressure on him, he could be more effective. 
 

I know JV could be spending his next season, off season.  Another reason to be a little frustrated with JB, you may have a near daily reminder of his past errors, but making this deal isn’t one of the.  
 

Garland is an upgrade on JV, we are ahead but gain a bit of salary.  So what.  Podz and Hogs ride with Dickinson on third line.  What’s the budget on that line to last years Rousell Sutter and Virtannen?  
 

Garland skates with Pearson and Horvat.  No different than Tiffoli Pearson Horvat but an adjustment in cap.  
 

Our top line is the same and the second line is a lot better than last year.  Hogs was good, but not ready for that level of night in and out.  He will do better down a line. 

 

We save millions on our 3 rd line.  
 

How much is off the 4th line?  Beagle and Ericsson.  9 million.  Spend 2 million on a decent Center… Sutter does owe us, really.  Add Motte, and whole ever wins in camp, miss Linda but not that much and build a new pool with JB not having to send the talent straight to the NHL.  6 million less than last year.  
 

the money is back in the right positions and Holtby isn’t staying with his money.  That is a moveable deal or a buy out if need be. 
 

Mikey can come up and Silvos gets a veteran AHL to Shepard his AHL rookie season.  That saves Vancouver about another 2.5 million in cap.  
 

lots of time left and hope this Belarusian is a wicked player… lots of big names dropped.  
 

 

 

 

 

[IBatch]

5 hours ago, DeNiro said:

Thinking that people would pay to read articles in the athletic was probably an unmitigated disaster.

Yep.  Not me so far anyways. 

[stawns]

4 minutes ago, Phat Fingers said:

Ray, 

 

 

you have been waiting a long time to cheer a local product and JV was just salt in the wound for many people.  
 

but the east coast moved west, Kinda hope the team gets named the Abbey Heat, or Fire, Or Inferno, but you have an AHl team.  
 

welcome to the Utica Blues.  Even if the 9th over all was kept, likely never see ice in Abbey any more than Podz.  
 

clearly JB was kept with a goal in mind by ownership to clean up his mess and start the restocking from there.  They know he can draft.  Had GMMG drafted, he would still be here.  
 

so giving up a pick, even a first is tough.  We did it fo Miller,1st and 3rd.  This is a 1st and 2nd and 7th. We were going to go out and sign say Dougie Hamilton.  What’s that going to cost?  How many teams moved Dougie Hamilton over his career?  Don’t leave out TO.  
 

OEL is giving the club a better Edler at 1m more per year for 6 more years.  At minimum.  
 

different player, largely better player in OEL, safe to say.  
 

so bye Hamonic?  Maybe or bye Schmidt.  It’s not like Schmidt isn’t being asked about, there is a lot of big pieces yet to fall into place, so the defence isn’t set, belying 1 and 2.   We have a legit 1 and 2 d man.  Like it or lump it, 6 million on a scoring winger that loses scoring touch is a lot different that 7 million on a minute eating, plays match ups and all situations defence man with a declining really great offensive game.  That declining game might improve if he slides into the RHD between Hughes and Petey.  Just a thought.  
 

Doubt Schmidt moves for a bit, maybe chooses to stay.  Miller drops down a bit and we have a Veteran per pairing if the club wants to keep the other defenders on the cheaper and rookie side of the ledger.  
 

having likely 28m in our top 4 is alot.  But it’s our top 4.  
 

and it’s just a shade bad of a legit top 4 which I think Miller if not counted on for PP and maybe looks to be more of a large decently mobile defender that needs to focus on the safe play to an outlet player more often than not.  Less pressure on him, he could be more effective. 
 

I know JV could be spending his next season, off season.  Another reason to be a little frustrated with JB, you may have a near daily reminder of his past errors, but making this deal isn’t one of the.  
 

Garland is an upgrade on JV, we are ahead but gain a bit of salary.  So what.  Podz and Hogs ride with Dickinson on third line.  What’s the budget on that line to last years Rousell Sutter and Virtannen?  
 

Garland skates with Pearson and Horvat.  No different than Tiffoli Pearson Horvat but an adjustment in cap.  
 

Our top line is the same and the second line is a lot better than last year.  Hogs was good, but not ready for that level of night in and out.  He will do better down a line. 

 

We save millions on our 3 rd line.  
 

How much is off the 4th line?  Beagle and Ericsson.  9 million.  Spend 2 million on a decent Center… Sutter does owe us, really.  Add Motte, and whole ever wins in camp, miss Linda but not that much and build a new pool with JB not having to send the talent straight to the NHL.  6 million less than last year.  
 

the money is back in the right positions and Holtby isn’t staying with his money.  That is a moveable deal or a buy out if need be. 
 

Mikey can come up and Silvos gets a veteran AHL to Shepard his AHL rookie season.  That saves Vancouver about another 2.5 million in cap.  
 

lots of time left and hope this Belarusian is a wicked player… lots of big names dropped.  
 

 

 

 

 

placeholders were never a "mess".  

[Fred65]

26 minutes ago, FaninMex said:

Why was it Bennings fault that he left? What if there were 2 plans and the wanted to go with getting into the playoffs and that was Linden's plan and when it failed he bowed out.

What if.... in business there are a thousand things that can sour a relationship but you choose the it is Benning's fault because it suits you. 

There were clearly 2 plan as you have stated. One was to make the playoffs with the Sedins and when that failed. Linden quit and the Sedins' retired. There have not be many plans. Even with the contracts of Beagle and co coming off the books next year. If the cap was going up, Petey and Hughes get up'd this year with plenty of space add a piece and next year go for gold. It shows a plan. No wishy washy. He tried different players and traded some 2nds looking at players who might still have potential because as a rebuilding team you can give those kinda long shots a chance. A second making it to the league is a long shot so a player around Horvat's age that suddenly excels is gold. If not well you tried. No big deal. It is business. You take risks. However, this fan base is so enamored with shiny picks and status quo they go ballistic if anything changes. Even Shannon - Hockey guy - I had a great draft planned now JB ruined it by making the team better Boo Hoo. 132 pages of people crying about what if OEL becomes the next Eriksson.

 

He says we are 2 years away from contending then pulls this trade, really? Building a strong team this year then evaluating its needs and tweaking it next year would put us 2 years away. What are you talking about? Also, maybe dumb fans and media that fly banners and constantly make crap up can have the effect of causing plans to be pushed ahead before they are ready. It is call consequences of ones actions.

How far do your guys remember .....2 years away ?? ........... how about this comment  by Beenning in 2014

 

Quote

“I like this team - I like the core players. This is a team we can turn around in a hurry.” - Benning

— Vancouver Canucks (@VanCanucks) May 23, 2014

 

[IBatch]

Just now, Fred65 said:

How far do your guys remember .....2 years away ?? ........... how about this comment  by Beenning in 2014

 

 

Man yes!  Does this mean it's finally happening?!!

[FaninMex]

4 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

How far do your guys remember .....2 years away ?? ........... how about this comment  by Beenning in 2014

 

 

Cool. And... What does that prove? 

[Fred65]

Just now, FaninMex said:

Cool. And... What does that prove? 

His plan in 2014 failed 

[IBatch]

38 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

Tocchet is not a players coach.

Tocchet could probably play right now.   Score 20/20 and beat the tar out of every player in the league.  Would be fun to watch.   Maybe Berube could beat him up and get 2 goals and 5 assists.   

[Phat Fingers]

7 minutes ago, stawns said:

placeholders were never a "mess".  

Eriksson was a mess and yes JB cleaned up after himself.  I think he did well to, just by putting the money back into the right positions.  Happy to have a poor mans fourth line than the premium priced 4 th line.  
 

Trades happen.  JB can draft.  Garland is a proven young top six RW.  Guenter is an unproven hopeful top 6 RW.  
 

JB cleaned up on aisle 6.  Remember what the Isles paid to lose Ladd only a few days ago… 

 

 

 

[Maniwaki Canuck]

Interesting interview with OEL.  Both the burnout and the determination come through.  Looks like he needs a fresh start for sure.  As long as he can still pivot and not get beat wide he's good for top 4 minutes.  Wouldn't count on top pairing though.  A lot will depend on who he plays with. 

[Fred65]

2 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Tocchet could probably play right now.   Score 20/20 and beat the tar out of every player in the league.  Would be fun to watch.   Maybe Berube could beat him up and get 2 goals and 5 assists.   

That could bee the missing ingredient I hadn't considered. I recall Edleer problem with Tort

[FaninMex]

4 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

His plan in 2014 failed 

Sorry my memory goes back 2 years. Were the Sedins' and or Linden on the Team?

 

Define Hurry. Is this hurry as in I can get us to win a playoff round before the Leafs, hurry because we did that. Or was it a hurry so that people like you can scroll through their saved quotes to be used in a hurry? 

[stawns]

3 minutes ago, Phat Fingers said:

Eriksson was a mess and yes JB cleaned up after himself.  I think he did well to, just by putting the money back into the right positions.  Happy to have a poor mans fourth line than the premium priced 4 th line.  
 

Trades happen.  JB can draft.  Garland is a proven young top six RW.  Guenter is an unproven hopeful top 6 RW.  
 

JB cleaned up on aisle 6.  Remember what the Isles paid to lose Ladd only a few days ago… 

 

 

 

they were placeholders.  Inconsequential contracts that had no effect on the the core moving forward.

[RWMc1]

2 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

How far do your guys remember .....2 years away ?? ........... how about this comment  by Beenning in 2014

 

 

He said a lot more things before that. I think that part was in response to a leading question. As a new GM, what was he expected to say. This team sucks?

 

Also, I think he actually believed that. He also said that our travel schedule and how it fatigued our players was over stated. He went with 7 d and 14 forwards the first year. The second year he went with 8 d and 13 forwards. Reality hit. I think the same thing happened with our players trade-ability. He saw the value of our players but had a hard time finding trading partners willing to give fair value in return.The Hamhuis offer was a reflection of that. He had to refuse deals until he finally started getting better returns.

[ilduce39]

1 minute ago, Maniwaki Canuck said:

Interesting interview with OEL.  Both the burnout and the determination come through.  Looks like he needs a fresh start for sure.  As long as he can still pivot and not get beat wide he's good for top 4 minutes.  Wouldn't count on top pairing though.  A lot will depend on who he plays with. 

7.3 mil is a spicy cap hit but weighed against the new top guys like Makar (as an RFA!) and Jones I think it’s palatable if he can stabilize his game.  

 

I think they’ll improve in overall team D but this group is not built to be a rock solid defensive unit.. it’s built to out-sprint opponents and let Demko do his thing.  

[ilduce39]

4 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

That could bee the missing ingredient I hadn't considered. I recall Edleer problem with Tort

That’s actually another Canuck-relevant example… imagine Torts coaching Edler for 4 years. You bet his game would decline.

[ShawnAntoski]

1 hour ago, iinatcc said:

Yeah and to be honest the Twins vouching for OEL, if true, doesn't reassure me. How involved were the Twins when with Eriksson ?

I wasn't going to bring up the LE & twins connection but good chance, they were being consulted during that time cause they were a big reason why they had signed LE to that deal; and with hindsight, LE didn't earned the opportunity to play with the twins.

 

This deal -.risk wise - is so one sided cause a bad season is not really an option; and it seems the Canucks leadership fell in love with idea.  As a fan, I am just waiting for this aggressive offseason plan to complete before making a conclusion but this is not a good start cause there is alot of things that have to go right for this deal to be worth it - imo.

 

Yotes ownership & management trolled the Canucks so much and it worked 

Edited July 24, 2021 by ShawnAntoski

[Fred65]

4 minutes ago, RWMc1 said:

He said a lot more things before that. I think that part was in response to a leading question. As a new GM, what was he expected to say. This team sucks?

 

Also, I think he actually believed that. He also said that our travel schedule and how it fatigued our players was over stated. He went with 7 d and 14 forwards the first year. The second year he went with 8 d and 13 forwards. Reality hit. I think the same thing happened with our players trade-ability. He saw the value of our players but had a hard time finding trading partners willing to give fair value in return.The Hamhuis offer was a reflection of that. He had to refuse deals until he finally started getting better returns.

Yeah I'd agree with that, but it's taken him 6 years to try and find the solution and some might say he's still looking. Vcr is not the panacea that fans might believe Vcr is. Littlee chnace of a cup larger taxes on salary and of course the travel

Edited July 24, 2021 by Fred65

[Phat Fingers]

Just now, stawns said:

they were placeholders.  Inconsequential contracts that had no effect on the the core moving forward.

The contracts were very consequential, devastating IMO to this teams changes this year.  
 

let’s say we repeat last years finish in the playoffs with a decent jump in our division this upcoming season, which is not unlikely.

 

then I would call this deal a win.  Same as I view the Miller deal.

 

Garland is now were Guenter is in a few years.  So what is the immediate loss to the club?  
 

the salary makes the Quinn and Petey deal easy with JV’s contract being wiped and buying out Holtby.  
 

Mikey is ready, or get a less the 4.7 m cap hit goalie to back up Demko for now.  
 

 Next year, JB keeps the pick, and we draft at 23, isn’t that were Boeser was picked?  
 

not worried about JB’s ability to draft. But this is a Miller, JT Miller type deal and he did a good job IMO.  

[Maniwaki Canuck]

Just now, ilduce39 said:

7.3 mil is a spicy cap hit but weighed against the new top guys like Makar (as an RFA!) and Jones I think it’s palatable if he can stabilize his game.  

 

I think they’ll improve in overall team D but this group is not built to be a rock solid defensive unit.. it’s built to out-sprint opponents and let Demko do his thing.  

For sure.  Not going to say that OEL is value at that cap hit, but neither is Jones.  Makar is more justified.  But yeah, we aren't a solid defensive defense unit as currently constituted.  Maybe that will change a bit if they do move Schmidt, but it wouldn't shock me if Benning runs with what we've got for a little while.  With the forwards we're accumulating, we could be a run and gun team.  Not what I'd recommend, but it might happen.  Will be interesting to see what Shaw's influence on personnel will be going into free agency.