IBatch Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 29 minutes ago, FaninMex said: 1. Average means some GMs last more time and some last less than that 5 years. 7 years would be in line with the average that you indicate as other GMs are going to be less.. Evaluate progress? OK? 1. We started with an old and stale core. Though the Sedins' still had game. 2. People say that we need to build our team through the draft and we have Podz, Hogz, Bo, Boes, OJ, JV (I do not care what you think. He played how many seasons), Petey, Hughes, Rathbone, Mac, Gadj etc... 3. We have added through UFA, players that have helped the team not lose terribly, that has kept the team wanting to win to avoid becoming Buffalo or AZ 4. We have now added players that put us into a win now. The process has not always been pretty but we are here. The problem that you and many others that slam this deal is that you cry IF and we have not even played a game yet. If can work for your argument and against it for example, what if we add another player or 2 at FA and win the cup. So, my evaluation of JB. We are ready to compete. I like our core. I like the trade. We are progressing forward instead of an endless draft picks. We shall see what this season brings. Yep. Good post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 (edited) 14 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said: I'm talking about the trade only within the context of that specific trade. The McCann trade was an entirely separate trade. Yes it was a trade on its own and has merit. JB lost the first trade on the tree and corrected his mistake - overall it's a wash. Edit: One way you can look at it, is he's far surpassed the average late draft pick with the games Guddy and Pearson have played and will play. People overrate draft picks on the CDC all the time. A late first has the same odds (23 and on actually) as the entire second round of ever playing 200 nhl games. 50/50. Guddy is fine as a third pairing D, he's still in the league right? Maybe not a good one ... at 4.5 last year too. Intangibles. I'm sure we are way past those 200 nhl games, and McAan was also a good pick. Basically we used that first for Guddys games (wasn't great and i was dissappointed in his reluctance to stick up for things that happened on the ice) and Pearson (for sure got value and will keep getting value there). Edited July 25, 2021 by IBatch 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post spook007 Posted July 25, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted July 25, 2021 2 hours ago, alucard said: you said the only reason he is still there is his drafting then said among other things. the single biggest? anyway lets move on. but you did not answer my question about Benning next year did you? I answered you always my dear, Please elaborate, with respect what are you talking about? with all respect. My arguments is: THE AVERAGE LIFESPAN OF A GM IS 5 YEAR. BENNING HAS BEEN HERE FOR 7. OKAY? WHEN IS THE TIME TO EVALUATE HIM BY HIS PROGRESS? IF NEXT YEAR TEAM IS NOT GOOD WE STILL CHASE OUR TAIL? with all respect, dudes. Not getting involved in you spat, however average life span of a GM is really irrelevant to any discussion. Either owners are happy or they are not... I think most agree, that he has to show some progress now... But you can not get a manager in with zero except Horvat to work with, and expect him to turn the team into a contender within 5 min... especially when all your top line players drop over a cliff edge like the Sedins did... The man has drafted decently, now his team has to show it has the ability needed... if its the same mediocre result, then he will be in a hot seat like all managers, but in this day and age, where you an't buy your way out of trouble, a manager should be given the opportunity to carry through the rebuild.... 3 4 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post IBatch Posted July 25, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted July 25, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, spook007 said: Not getting involved in you spat, however average life span of a GM is really irrelevant to any discussion. Either owners are happy or they are not... I think most agree, that he has to show some progress now... But you can not get a manager in with zero except Horvat to work with, and expect him to turn the team into a contender within 5 min... especially when all your top line players drop over a cliff edge like the Sedins did... The man has drafted decently, now his team has to show it has the ability needed... if its the same mediocre result, then he will be in a hot seat like all managers, but in this day and age, where you an't buy your way out of trouble, a manager should be given the opportunity to carry through the rebuild.... You bet Spook! He's earned it, and put up with some angry fans too (including put his kids through it too). Really rooting for him, want to see what he can do now that he's finally in a position of some power, that is 100% entirely from his own creation, minus like you said, Horvat. Seen better expansion teams from the old rules (compared to our team as far as pools go - and because they could actually do things to help their cause) ... which take usually took a decade or longer to become relevant. I'm excited for them this year now. Edited July 25, 2021 by IBatch 1 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UFCanuck Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 46 minutes ago, Westcoastcanucks777 said: Not yet when he’s done the current contract we can resign him! A one day contract for Loui to retire a Canuck. Can't wait for his Jersey retirement! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 1 minute ago, IBatch said: You bet Spook! He's earned it, and put up with some angry fans too (including put his kids through it too). Really rooting for him, want to see what he can do now that he's finally in a position of some power, that is 100% entirely from his own creation, minus like you said, Horvat. Seen better expansion teams from the old rules ... which take usually took a decade or longer to become relevant. I'm excited for them this year now. 100% agree Ibatch... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post spook007 Posted July 25, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted July 25, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, IBatch said: I like that view as far as JB goes. People exaggerate his failures all the time, and others coming in to defend some of the hyperbole then could be construed as homers. In the end we are all pro Canucks (well all but the few rotten apples who are probably Flamer or Leaf fans). I'm sure most of us are inbetween the two spectrums. Can appreciate the good JB done and the bad. I'm patient enough to see what JB can do from a positions of strength, this draft move finally put himself into one. MG mess would have taken Stan Bowman, Holland, Yzerman or whomever 4 years min to claw out of. And a few more years to get things going after that. A team with no pool and past it's prime is screwed under the cap. Can't buy your way out anymore. I don't mind solidarity at the top all the way down, and for now it appears we have that. There is no rule a GM only gets five years. Look at Poile in NSH, the Poile/Trotz show went on for well over a decade. I'm hopeful the same is going to be the case with Vancouver. Like to see what JB can do with EP and QHs deals, and what he can do now in the trade front. No teams is ever built from the draft alone and BPA. Trades have to occur. The one JB just made is the most significant trade i've seen since Bertuzzi. And more need to come. The last three years JB has made three doozies really, Miller, Schmidt and now this 5 player, three pick, retention deal. Willing to see it through with JB, he's the second GM in history who's team is entirely his. Edit: I really wish i was a fly on the wall when ARI again tried to flog OEL. Last time it was a waste of JB time and it screwed with his plans for TT. So he said " fine they want to play ball - half market value on our end for each part of the deal and i want Garland to replace losing TT." Sent them a fax with instead of four first rounders, 2-3 unprotected - one first, a second a 7th and added an extra guy. LE, Beagle, AR retention lol.... each of those things on separate deals wouldn't be easy to do. This trade would have been shredded to bits if anyone dared make it on the this forum as a proposal. Lol... can just imagine the responses here... Go back to play your NHL 21 muppet... are you crazy etc.... The fact he pulled it off is genius in itself... He got a top 6 winger (hopefully) He got a top pairing D-man (hopefully) And he got rid of 3 dead weight contracts and doing so for the price of a 9th OA in draft, where nobody has much idea, who's good, great, or stinks up the joint... +a second... And all the garbage about it being another anchor contract, the boy can play on the 3rd D pairing if he eventually stinks, and even so Benning just showed that anchor contracts are movable. so in my book it an A for imagination and maybe a B for the players, but over all I'd give him an A for this. Just on a side note, I've been playing a little with combinations of our forward lines, and they look quite interesting in a positive way now. Even room for a few injuries... Defence still needs a player or two (depending on how far Woo is in his development, but we are getting close.... This team definitely is a playoffs team, with a bit of roughness on the back end. Wonder if Schmidt will be move to RD or shipped out entirely (if he stays as LD, 2 RD's will be needed....) I haven't been this excited in ages... Edited July 25, 2021 by spook007 1 2 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 4 minutes ago, spook007 said: Lol... can just imagine the responses here... Go back to play your NHL 21 muppet... are you crazy etc.... The fact he pulled it off is genius in itself... He got a top 6 winger (hopefully) He got a top pairing D-man (hopefully) And he got rid of 3 dead weight contracts while doing so for the price of a 9th OA in draft, where nobody has much idea, who's good, great, or stinks up the joint... +a second... And all the garbage about it being another anchor contract, the boy can play on the 3rd D pairing if he eventually stinks, and even sop Benning just showed that anchor contracts are movable. so in my book it an A for imagination and maybe a B for the players, but over all I'd give him an A for this. Just on a side note, I've been playing a little with combinations of our forward lines, and they look quite interesting in a positive way now. Even room for a few injuries... Defence still needs a player or two (depending on how far Woo is in his development, but we are getting close.... This team definitely is a playoffs team, with a bit of roughness on the back end. Wonder if Schmidt will be move to RD or shipped out entirely (if he stays as LD, 2 RD's will be needed....) I haven't been this excited in ages... Yes what a different looking team! TG must be grinning from ear to ear right now at the idea of three scoring lines. Who do other coaches send out to defend now? So many close losses the past two seasons. A lot of one goal games. A lot of those should become Ws now. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post spook007 Posted July 25, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted July 25, 2021 1 minute ago, IBatch said: Yes what a different looking team! TG must be grinning from ear to ear right now at the idea of three scoring lines. Who do other coaches send out to defend now? So many close losses the past two seasons. A lot of one goal games. A lot of those should become Ws now. Tenacity and ability on every line... Yeah TG hasn't stopped smiling for 48 hours.... me neither 2 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hateleafs Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 3 hours ago, Dazzle said: 1. Wrong. Schmidt/LV trade - 3rd round pick. Clear win. Easy for you to say something and just ignore evidence. 2. Drafting - Benning has revived this prospect pool. Demko, Hoglander - all regulars on this team. Gillis left him with ABSOLUTELY nothing with regards to prospects. Horvat was obtained from Gillis trading a goalie he didn't draft. In fact. Gillis never drafted a goalie in the system that could replace anyone! That's why we have the Luongo/Schneider mess. 3. Trading picks - Benning at least can draft the players, so he can move picks if it helps the team. Gillis burned all the picks he traded, and messed up the ones that he did draft, for the most part. I liked the Schmidt trade at the time but in hindsight I think Vegas did good here dumping his contract and getting a third round pick. Of course this hinges on if we get that pick back for Schmidt or if we lose value and if Schmidt has a good season coming up if we can’t trade him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post grandmaster Posted July 25, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted July 25, 2021 3 minutes ago, hateleafs said: I liked the Schmidt trade at the time but in hindsight I think Vegas did good here dumping his contract and getting a third round pick. Of course this hinges on if we get that pick back for Schmidt or if we lose value and if Schmidt has a good season coming up if we can’t trade him. You are undervaluing Schmidt in the fact that he is a top 4 defenceman. Worth well more than the 3rd round pick. He shouldn’t be traded. The guy was a steal. 1 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hateleafs Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 8 minutes ago, grandmaster said: You are undervaluing Schmidt in the fact that he is a top 4 defenceman. Worth well more than the 3rd round pick. He shouldn’t be traded. The guy was a steal. Schmidt looked good on a aggressive robust Vegas team but looked average last season maybe another season he looks better. If he plays with the Canucks this season it’ll tell us if this was a win trade. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post IBatch Posted July 25, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted July 25, 2021 17 minutes ago, hateleafs said: Schmidt looked good on a aggressive robust Vegas team but looked average last season maybe another season he looks better. If he plays with the Canucks this season it’ll tell us if this was a win trade. Schmidt could be our McDonagh if he dials it in. All this noise around Schmidt is media related and it's amped up in social media (this platform included) now that we've made the OEL trade. We are getting whiplash really. First no Edler back! Darn but that's ok we still have Schmidt. He can play his natural side and make it easier on QHs right!? Then the big trade! OEL for sure still is a top for NHL LHD....as is. And can manage a lot of Edlers SH TOI right? Sure he's not cheap - but he's earned every cent of his deal. Because of how he played in Vegas. Schmidt was an upgrade over Tanev on paper at the time of the trade and is more versatile, doesn't have the same injury history. And younger. For a 3rd! Cue his first season. Not his best lol. But he did settle down just like every other D except Myers and Edler who quietly did their thing all year and were absolutely fine. How old is Edler again? Too old to be used as a top four on a good team. OEL just turned 30. Schmidt. Myers. Hopefully Hamonic. I've said it so many times i feel like i'm getting blue in the face, blue chip D's, which all of these guys are for sure are, often play their best hockey 30-34. Not always but often. We pay more then RFAs doing the same job because they've put in their time and for the most part extremely reliable. Edlers best 12 months ever was arguably when he won the world championship. Not his fault he didn't have any help on the blue line with the Canucks back then and it was just him and Tanev holding the fort down. Wish Eagle the very best, and have to say i'm proud of him for wanting to go to a contender. After this trade he might want to circle back even. Wouldn't that be fantastic! But i'm excited about Rathbone. Kids built like a truck. Has some chance of being our Juice. OJ ... well we will see. TG played Rathbone close to 20 minutes and i didn't hear Myers or anyone screaming at him where to go (OJ - Myers was solid though pre covid). JB so far is getting an A+ given his ED prep as well. Man what a trade! Turned us into a team to watch out for. Flexibility right now is mana, and JB finally, after seven long years, has some. Doesn't have to go after the best UFA goalie (without Miller no re-tool period)..and the best UFA winger (went after Iginla and got the second best in Vrbata)....he's finally close to being in the catbird seat and just made a ton of reparations for contracts he made thinking (and reasonably so) that the core would take at least a year longer to emerge. Don't be shocked to see JB a finalist for GM of the year next season. I won't be. 3 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaninMex Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 1 hour ago, hateleafs said: I liked the Schmidt trade at the time but in hindsight I think Vegas did good here dumping his contract and getting a third round pick. Of course this hinges on if we get that pick back for Schmidt or if we lose value and if Schmidt has a good season coming up if we can’t trade him. If the whole team looked terrible, how can you single out one player as being bad and deserving to be traded? I see that the whole team collapsed and this year will be a better gauge and you do not give up on a player after such circumstances. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, spook007 said: Tenacity and ability on every line... Yeah TG hasn't stopped smiling for 48 hours.... me neither There's a guy smiling over here in Aus to. Petey healthy,2 great additions that bring more than just playing ability to our team, experience and determination. Hopefully Quinn develops more through the season. Hopefully we may have a additional player or 2 still coming. Happy days..... Edited July 25, 2021 by Ilunga 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 1 minute ago, Ilunga said: There's a guy smiling over here in Aus to. Petey healthy,2 great additions that bring more than just playing ability to our team, experience and determination. Hopefully Quinn develops more through the season. Hopefully we may have a additional player or 2 still coming. Happy days..... Spot on, just the fact QH doesn't have to play 22+min a night should help him lots... Yes happy days Down under 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinatcc Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 1 hour ago, hateleafs said: Schmidt looked good on a aggressive robust Vegas team but looked average last season maybe another season he looks better. If he plays with the Canucks this season it’ll tell us if this was a win trade. I am also thinking maybe Schmidt is the kind of player that doesn't really rise to the occasion if the team isn't any good. He's supposed to be a locker room guy based on reports on him on Vegas but I didn't hear any of that while he was a Canuck. And now he wants out (allegedly) Maybe he's just the type of player that can build off by piggy backing on a good team rather than someone that can help do the piggy backing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johngould21 Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 38 minutes ago, Ilunga said: There's a guy smiling over here in Aus to. Petey healthy,2 great additions that bring more than just playing ability to our team, experience and determination. Hopefully Quinn develops more through the season. Hopefully we may have a additional player or 2 still coming. Happy days..... Those Aussie girls can swim too, what a 4 x 100 free relay clinic they put on. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putgolzin Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 4 hours ago, playboi19 said: A rejuvenated Loui probably puts up 10 points all empty netters. And way more than half of them into the oppositions goal 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 4 minutes ago, nzan said: And way more than half of them into the oppositions goal Two wake-ups and it’s still unbelievable that Jimbo dumperooed Loui, Beagle, and Rouselle in this deal. We get out top pairing D, and top six forward, and dump three toxic contracts. The cost? Geunther and a 2022 second. That’s a friggin’ kick ass win for Jimmy! Geunther looks like such a putz too. Klimlovich is better!!! Happy Alfer!!! 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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