[Trade] Canucks trade Jay Beagle, Loui Eriksson, Antoine Roussel, 2021 1st-round pick, 2022 2nd-round pick, 2023 7th-round pick to Coyotes for Oliver Ekman-Larsson, Conor Garland

[coryberg]

15 minutes ago, Wolfgang Durst said:

when was the last time he put up 40+ points  ?

 

10 minutes ago, tas said:

the last time there was a full nhl season.

 

he was also on pace for it this past year, and on pace for 37 the year before. 

 

10 minutes ago, stawns said:

In 2018-19 he put up 44 in 81 games

In 2019-2020, 30 in 66 (37 point pace)

In 2020-21, 24 in 46 (43 point pace)

 

2 minutes ago, coryberg said:

Was on pace for 43 points over 82 last year.....

 

Oh you conveniently forgot it was a shorted season? Shocker!

[JM_]

2 minutes ago, stawns said:

As per usual a fancy stats page tabulated by someone who has likely never been on skates in his life.

 

Hockey isn't baseball, you can't pinpoint and individuals effectiveness in a team sport with stats.

 

 

Calgary would have liked to replace Gio with OEL given the chance. But I digress...

 

I just can't get whipped up over war charts one way or the other. I don't think the slide rule kids have good metrics for defensive play yet.

 

I do get a kick out of how polar opposite Benning is to these guys tho. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, drummerboy said:

3 seasons ago.  
Was well on pace the last couple years as well. 

It seems people aren’t taking into account the absolute dog $&!# team he has been playing on, or the coaching change that seemed to ruin a lot of their players. 
 

Is this trade going to suck in 3 years?

100%
But let’s not act like this guy sucks. 
He will probably be our best dman for a year or two until Quinn realizes there are two ends of the ice.  

Why is this trade going to suck in 3 years?  Garland will be 28, and OEL 33.  Both will still be playing great for us.  Remember that first was Geunther, who is craperolla.  Guy fell like a friggin’ rock in the draft for good reason.  

[rekker]

8 minutes ago, Wolfgang Durst said:

love this part the most, arguing is top notch as always.

Just watched the zoom call several Canucks hockey insiders and media had with OEL. Lot's of questions from Kuzma and Drance how OEL plans to turn his game around.

Didn't like OEL's body language and have serious doubts that he is the top pairing D-Man Jim spoke about in his press conference.

Love your posts.

Let's keep coming them.

Your right. In no way can I see a smooth skating, captain, character veteran who has wanted out of a black hole of a franchise with no fans, owned by the NHL, can improve his game. Garland raves about OEL's skill set. Oh, almost forgot about this sparkplug of a player that can slot in on all the lines and the second unit PP. Actually, both players will inject life into our second unit PP. Is there risk in this deal? Absolutely. Show me any UFA deal JB could make for a quality dman that doesn't involve some extra cash and term. Same goes for a top six sparkplug who grinds out goals. This trade makes so much sense and at a time when we needed a step forward and shot in the arm. To wait a year to lose the contracts and then move forward is like panning for gold. It may work but you've wasted another year of JT and Bo. Another year of our young players and goalie getting pounded on the scoreboard could end up with Oilers like wounds. I applaud JB for doing this trade and attempting a big step forward with what we have. To just sit back and hope for options that may or may not be there after next season is dumb if another quality option like this trade was available now. Love this trade and can appreciate ALL the factors surrounding it.

[Gurn]

28 minutes ago, Wolfgang Durst said:

Didn't like OEL's body language

Was he smiling?  Cause that's a thing around here,  for some people.

[Alflives]

59 minutes ago, nzan said:

I also find myself in the win for Jimmy column.

I just think you have to remember to include the potential of a toxic contract that we’ve taken on while rejoicing in the three that we shed.

I can get over the 9OA because of Garland.

Was Edler’s contract toxic?  OEL is a much better player than Edler was, when we signed him to his last contract.  And that 9OA turned out to be Geunther - a bustaroo bonsai.  

[stawns]

2 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

 

Calgary would have liked to replace Gio with OEL given the chance. But I digress...

 

I just can't get whipped up over war charts one way or the other. I don't think the slide rule kids have good metrics for defensive play yet.

 

I do get a kick out of how polar opposite Benning is to these guys tho. 

 

 

 

 

 

I do think there are advance stats that can be applied to show a general picture of a player.........things like toi, offensive/defensive zone starts etc are stats that show what types of situations players are put in.

 

However, it's a team game and the "slide rule kids" aren't able to moneyball hockey no matter how hard they might try 

[JM_]

3 minutes ago, rekker said:

Your right. In no way can I see a smooth skating, captain, character veteran who has wanted out of a black hole of a franchise with no fans, owned by the NHL, can improve his game. Garland raves about OEL's skill set. Oh, almost forgot about this sparkplug of a player that can slot in on all the lines and the second unit PP. Actually, both players will inject life into our second unit PP. Is there risk in this deal? Absolutely. Show me any UFA deal JB could make for a quality dman that doesn't involve some extra cash and term. Same goes for a top six sparkplug who grinds out goals. This trade makes so much sense and at a time when we needed a step forward and shot in the arm. To wait a year to lose the contracts and then move forward is like panning for gold. It may work but you've wasted another year of JT and Bo. Another year of our young players and goalie getting pounded on the scoreboard could end up with Oilers like wounds. I applaud JB for doing this trade and attempting a big step forward with what we have. To just sit back and hope for options that may or may not be there after next season is dumb if another quality option like this trade was available now. Love this trade and can appreciate ALL the factors surrounding it.

^ so much this. 

 

We are going to have 10-11 guys that we drafted and developed on our team as well. This is the young core we are running with for the next 4 years, surrounded by experienced vets like Miller, OEL, etc. 

 

There isn't a plan to keep tanking for two more years, the fancy stats kids need to wrap their heads around that. Its not in the cards. 

[TheRussianRocket1994]

33 minutes ago, stawns said:

In 2018-19 he put up 44 in 81 games

In 2019-2020, 30 in 66 (37 point pace)

In 2020-21, 24 in 46 (43 point pace)

I love how some of these people constantly argue / crap on Benning and put themselves on a pedestal, but they don't even have their facts straight. Just regurgitate manure to try and support their narrative. Funny thing, even when they're proven wrong (as you just did to them) over and over, they just keep going. 

Edited July 25, 2021 by IRR

[4petesake]

1 hour ago, iinatcc said:

I am also thinking maybe Schmidt is the kind of player that doesn't really rise to the occasion if the team isn't any good.

 

He's supposed to be a locker room guy based on reports on him on Vegas but I didn't hear any of that while he was a Canuck. And now he wants out (allegedly)

 

Maybe he's just the type of player that can build off by piggy backing on a good team rather than someone that can help do the piggy backing. 

I think that if you watch NS in the charity baseball game that someone posted in the NS thread you start to get a feeling for the difficulties of changing teams last year. It’s a beautiful night playing baseball with a bunch of your friends in front of a large crowd and having loads of fun. Here, because of Covid none of those things were able to happen. Imagine how hard it would be to come to a new team and have almost zero interaction away from the ice, no chance to bond and form new friendships. No chance to become part of the community for you or your partner/s.o.

 

Personally I’m hoping that he and the team decide to take a do-over and see if he can become part of the family and be a better fit this year under Shaw.

[Bruce Boudreau]

On 7/23/2021 at 2:24 PM, wallstreetamigo said:

If Benning had been replaced, no chance this deal happens. He essentially traded one year of cap issues for 6. Its a save his job trade clear as day. And probably also shows just how clearly the players and owners are getting sick of losing.

 

Having said that, this trade is not nealy as bad as I thought it would be. Losing the 9OA was what I always expected the price was going to be to move dead weight. To move 3 bad contracts out and get Garland back suggests to me it is worth it at this point.

 

My concern comes from the defense though. We do not have even on eguy who could be considered a true defensive dman. So another few moves need to be made.

 

One of Rathbone or Juolevi will likely be moved now. Hopefully we get full value. Still no one to play with Hughes though.

 

If this is the first of a chain reaction it will not be a bad deal overall. I am not a fan of Benning (or OEL tbh) but I am witholding judging this trade too harshly until we see how he rounds things out around it. 

Still processing this trade. Think it's a great move for Zona as they head to a rebuild and are stockpiling picks like the Kings have recently to super charge the rebuild.

 

Horvat not wanting to rebuild makes a ton of sense. He is no longer a young player. He is a veteran at 26 he has more than 5 years of experience. He has a family and a kid now too.

 

When your Captain publicly comments that he wouldn't be in favor of rebuilding Benning had to do something aggressive or desperate depending how you see it.

 

The OEL contract is not going to age well but Garland is at or close to his peak as a player.

 

Let's see if the Canucks can make any other trade or free agent signing but this looks the last big deal before Benning goes on vacation unless he can get any value for Virtanen and Schmidt in a package deal maybe.

 

Also don't see Rathbone being moved because Conar Garland and Rathbone are Boston Bros.

 

Hopefully they can dangle some combo of Juolevi, Schmidt and Virtanen to get a RHD defensive d man with size and who can skate and hit.

Edited July 25, 2021 by Chip Kelly

[Ghostsof1915]

13 minutes ago, gurn said:

Was he smiling?  Cause that's a thing around here,  for some people.

And the facial expressions.....

[Gurn]

40 minutes ago, Wolfgang Durst said:

when was the last time he put up 40+ points  ?

The last time the NHL had a full season of hockey.

[Putgolzin]

13 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Was Edler’s contract toxic?  OEL is a much better player than Edler was, when we signed him to his last contract.  And that 9OA turned out to be Geunther - a bustaroo bonsai.  

Agreed on the Edler comparison.

Which is a large part of why I’m optimistic about this trade.

 

You might want to let up on the Guenther tirade for two reasons - one, it’s possible you don’t know the future; two, it’s possible Benning wouldn’t have had a gun to his head forcing him to pick Guenther.

[rekker]

10 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

^ so much this. 

 

We are going to have 10-11 guys that we drafted and developed on our team as well. This is the young core we are running with for the next 4 years, surrounded by experienced vets like Miller, OEL, etc. 

 

There isn't a plan to keep tanking for two more years, the fancy stats kids need to wrap their heads around that. Its not in the cards. 

Exactly. The time is now to move forward. All these possible options we love to discuss, and it's fun, are just hypothetical. Reality is Jimbo pulled this deal out of magic hat as for as I'm concerned. I woke up to the news the other morning of Larsson signing that cheap deal in Seattle and was just pissed. That's just it. The options out there are so hypothetical. You can't compare what if's to what actually is. 

[D.B Cooper]

23 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Why is this trade going to suck in 3 years?  Garland will be 28, and OEL 33.  Both will still be playing great for us.  Remember that first was Geunther, who is craperolla.  Guy fell like a friggin’ rock in the draft for good reason.  

They will still be serviceable for sure.  

It is questionable OEL is worth his contract today. 
It’s not going to look any better are he continues to age and decline. 
He will still be a good player, there is no doubt there, but he won’t be close to worth what we are paying for him.  
 

(I’m going to ignore the part where you crapola a high end prospect that would instantly be 1 in our pool)

Edited July 25, 2021 by drummerboy

[BertaNuck]

[4petesake]

38 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said:

 

I see everyone saying this, that we compressed our window. But I would make that the argument the other way.

 

How many more years of Bo Horvats prime are you willing to waste? Horvat is a win now player. And Id argue Demko is too. 

 

Jim Benning is right when he says the team needs to take the next step. The core players are good right now, they have runway, but it's time to get them into the playoffs and growing.

 

And I think OEL will give us more than 2 years of good play. It's a risk in some ways but there's also a big upside to him.

Well said! This is the point that I had to grasp to get me off the fence on this trade. Many posters complained about the message sent to Bo, Petey, JT et al when the team didn’t re-sign Tanev and Marky. This trade sent the message in no uncertain terms that the team wants to compete now while these guys are entering their primes.

[ilduce39]

19 minutes ago, rekker said:

Your right. In no way can I see a smooth skating, captain, character veteran who has wanted out of a black hole of a franchise with no fans, owned by the NHL, can improve his game. Garland raves about OEL's skill set. Oh, almost forgot about this sparkplug of a player that can slot in on all the lines and the second unit PP. Actually, both players will inject life into our second unit PP. Is there risk in this deal? Absolutely. Show me any UFA deal JB could make for a quality dman that doesn't involve some extra cash and term. Same goes for a top six sparkplug who grinds out goals. This trade makes so much sense and at a time when we needed a step forward and shot in the arm. To wait a year to lose the contracts and then move forward is like panning for gold. It may work but you've wasted another year of JT and Bo. Another year of our young players and goalie getting pounded on the scoreboard could end up with Oilers like wounds. I applaud JB for doing this trade and attempting a big step forward with what we have. To just sit back and hope for options that may or may not be there after next season is dumb if another quality option like this trade was available now. Love this trade and can appreciate ALL the factors surrounding it.

This is true… it’s easy to sit back and criticize the OEL pickup but what were the alternatives to replacing (improving upon) Edler’s contributions that didn’t involve any contract risk down the line? 
 

There aren’t any - no decent UFA who isn’t in their career twilight mid-late 30s is signing 1 or 2 year deals.  Look at a a guy like Stralman who’s about to turn 35 signed a 3x5.5 at age 33.  Look what it cost to pick up (and sign) Jones or Risto.  Look at the rumoured ask for Dumba (Boeser).  
 

It’s so easy to sit back and say it’s a bad contract… (and even if that’s fair - and there’s some risk about his overall play) the alternatives all suck.  You can’t just trot out bargain bin war darlings when your core needs to win now.  Sometimes you need to take a chance.

[rekker]

11 minutes ago, Chip Kelly said:

Still processing this trade. Think it's a great move for Zona as they head to a rebuild and are stockpiling picks like the Kings have recently to super charge the rebuild.

 

Horvat not wanting to rebuild makes a ton of sense. He is no longer a young player. He is a veteran at 26 he has more than 5 years of experience. He has a family and a kid now too.

 

When your Captain publicly comments that he wouldn't be in favor of rebuilding Benning had to do something aggressive or desperate depending how you see it.

 

The OEL contract is not going to age well but Garland is at or close to his peak as a player.

 

Let's see if the Canucks can make any other trade or free agent signing but this looks the last big deal before Benning goes on vacation unless he can get any value for Virtanen and Schmidt in a package deal maybe.

 

Also don't see Rathbone being moved because Conar Garland and Rathbone are Boston Bros.

 

Hopefully they can dangle some combo of Juolevi, Schmidt and Virtanen to get a RHD defensive d man with size and who can skate and hit.

Yip. Another fringe benefit of the big trade. JB now has some hammer. He has options and is in no way desperate.