[Trade] Canucks trade Jay Beagle, Loui Eriksson, Antoine Roussel, 2021 1st-round pick, 2022 2nd-round pick, 2023 7th-round pick to Coyotes for Oliver Ekman-Larsson, Conor Garland

[appleboy]

People are still discussing this. It is done .

 

Now we wait and see how this works out. As fans we all hope the OEL comes in and becomes a top pairing guy for years to come. I will be happy if he is just OK and gives us 4 solid years. 

 

If this team is going to be competitive Jim needs to move out Schmidt and add a couple of defensive D men. OEL and Schmidt play a similar style. 

 

Hopefully he can move Schmidt and Holtby even if just for picks. It is the cap space that I think is the most valuable. The rest of the holes can be filled with UFA's.

[TheRussianRocket1994]

4 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

So did he redeem himself then? Or are you going to push an anti-Benning narrative here?

 

It's pretty obvious about the bias when any changes are viewed negatively for whatever reason.

 

In terms of cap dumps, Benning did a lot better than PHI and NYI. Of course, you'll never point that out because it'll hurt your opinion on it.

Benning can't win!! He didn't do / fix this. Boo! He did do / fix this. Boo! They can't have it both ways, but stupid is as stupid does! 

[stawns]

8 minutes ago, ba;;isticsports said:

The part i don't find masterful is that OEL stated he'd only wave for Boston or Vancouver (much like Kesler did to us), so we were dealing from strength

OEL on the downside for 2 years and knowing  he is making more than your young stars was the added strength that you had to counter with MORE than 12% retention

They knew how bad JB had wanted this player and he bought high again (with only 1 team to bid against)

JB was dealing from a point of strength, hence he was able to unload beagle, Roussel, LE, get Arizona to retain cap and get two players who are legitimately among the top players in their position.

 

And all he had to do was give up a first in a draft where he knew the players he wanted would be gone and a second that should t be hard to recoup.

 

To me, that seems like a GM who knew where he was dealing from

[NewbieCanuckFan]

9 minutes ago, stawns said:

JB was dealing from a point of strength, hence he was able to unload beagle, Roussel, LE, get Arizona to retain cap and get two players who are legitimately among the top players in their position.

 

And all he had to do was give up a first in a draft where he knew the players he wanted would be gone and a second that should t be hard to recoup.

 

To me, that seems like a GM who knew where he was dealing from

Only time he's been able to recoup a 2nd was unloading stuff leftover from the Gillis regime  (think we even got a 2nd round pick compensation for Torts - heh, not worth the aggravation he put the team thru that one year) unless I'm mistaken.

[Fanuck]

16 minutes ago, ba;;isticsports said:

The part i don't find masterful is that OEL stated he'd only wave for Boston or Vancouver (much like Kesler did to us), so we were dealing from strength

OEL on the downside for 2 years and knowing  he is making more than your young stars was the added strength that you had to counter with MORE than 12% retention

They knew how bad JB had wanted this player and he bought high again (with only 1 team to bid against)

I too thought JB could've squeezed for more retention on OEL.  I read AZ was desperate to get their first back and OEL was very specific on teams he'd waive for so...  I wonder if anyone has crunched the numbers on the exact totality of money out vs money in on all the players involved for the length of their existing contracts (yes I understand CG is RFA but his contract could be extrapolated).  Just curious on that.

 

One question nobody has been able to answer is whether or not JB voided OEL's clauses when the transaction took place as GM's can do that in certain cases.

[goblix]

1 minute ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Only time he's been able to recoup a 2nd was unloading stuff leftover from the Gillis regime  (think we even got a 2nd round pick compensation for Torts - heh, not worth the aggravation he put the team thru that one year) unless I'm mistaken.

Yeah it's clear we never had anything worthy of recouping picks... with a current top 9 depth like we have there will be some hard decisions coming up when Hogs gets out of ELC in 2 years and Boeser next year... I know we have cap space to resign him but we also have to look at the next contracts of Miller and Horvat who both are more of a cornerstone than Boeser is.

 

But hey if we can trade Boeser for picks and have players like Hogs or Podz earn their way up the lineup then we can fill up a 3rd line role far easier than a top 6 role

[NewbieCanuckFan]

3 minutes ago, Fanuck said:

I too thought JB could've squeezed for more retention on OEL.  I read AZ was desperate to get their first back and OEL was very specific on teams he'd waive for so...  I wonder if anyone has crunched the numbers on the exact totality of money out vs money in on all the players involved for the length of their existing contracts (yes I understand CG is RFA but his contract could be extrapolated).  Just curious on that.

 

One question nobody has been able to answer is whether or not JB voided OEL's clauses when the transaction took place as GM's can do that in certain cases.

Best not to start a relationship with a new major player with a move like that imho.  

[Fanuck]

1 minute ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Best not to start a relationship with a new major player with a move like that imho.  

It's just business.   I think OEL would understand that.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

1 minute ago, Fanuck said:

It's just business.   I think OEL would understand that.

Yeah but I still don't think you should treat a core player for years to come like that at the beginning.

[appleboy]

10 minutes ago, stawns said:

JB was dealing from a point of strength, hence he was able to unload beagle, Roussel, LE, get Arizona to retain cap and get two players who are legitimately among the top players in their position.

 

And all he had to do was give up a first in a draft where he knew the players he wanted would be gone and a second that should t be hard to recoup.

 

To me, that seems like a GM who knew where he was dealing from

I don't think either team was playing from a point of strength. The more I look at this trade the more I see it as a cap dump for us. If Jim had any hope of being aggressive he needed the cap space. I don't see this about landing OEL as much as it was about getting the cap space to make a push. They didn't want to wait until next year. Both teams got what they wanted.

Jim acquired OEL and unloaded 12 mil. Now he can move out Schmidt to clear another 6 mil. Without this deal there was no cap to do anything.

If Schmidt gets moved he will have added 4.7 mil dif between Schmidt and OEL. 2.5 with a Jake buyout . A Holtby trade will bring another 4.3 less a backup.

 

So they swapped Schmidt for OEL and gained an extra 11 mil to cover Garland , Dickinson , a backup and hopefully after signing Hughes and Petey there will be a little to add defensive depth. On the backend and for the forth line.

 

They really need to move Schmidt and Holtby.

[4petesake]

19 minutes ago, Fanuck said:

I too thought JB could've squeezed for more retention on OEL.  I read AZ was desperate to get their first back and OEL was very specific on teams he'd waive for so...  I wonder if anyone has crunched the numbers on the exact totality of money out vs money in on all the players involved for the length of their existing contracts (yes I understand CG is RFA but his contract could be extrapolated).  Just curious on that.

 

One question nobody has been able to answer is whether or not JB voided OEL's clauses when the transaction took place as GM's can do that in certain cases.

The two team thing (Boston & Vancouver) was last year. This year rather than asking OEL which teams he would waive for the Yotes opened it up to anyone and took the best offer and asked him to waive. I don’t know how many offers they may have received from other teams so exactly how much much leverage JB had is debatable since JB was also under pressure to make cap space.
 

And yes OEL’s NMC is still intact according to Capfriendly.

[goblix]

20 minutes ago, appleboy said:

I don't think either team was playing from a point of strength. The more I look at this trade the more I see it as a cap dump for us. If Jim had any hope of being aggressive he needed the cap space. I don't see this about landing OEL as much as it was about getting the cap space to make a push. They didn't want to wait until next year. Both teams got what they wanted.

Jim acquired OEL and unloaded 12 mil. Now he can move out Schmidt to clear another 6 mil. Without this deal there was no cap to do anything.

If Schmidt gets moved he will have added 4.7 mil dif between Schmidt and OEL. 2.5 with a Jake buyout . A Holtby trade will bring another 4.3 less a backup.

 

So they swapped Schmidt for OEL and gained an extra 11 mil to cover Garland , Dickinson , a backup and hopefully after signing Hughes and Petey there will be a little to add defensive depth. On the backend and for the forth line.

 

They really need to move Schmidt and Holtby.

Yeah the whole deal was about removing 3 contracts totaled at 12m that provided depth or minimal contributions... or in Louis case no contributions and swap them out for 2 impactful players that will equate to about the same costs

 

that 12m really handicapped the team, it definitely goes to show you how much contract term matters and in some aspects it matters more than actual cap value

 

Holtby definitely needs to go, the good thing is that if there is no actual trade outlet for him his buyout only hits us with 500k otherwise I'm still impartial on Schmidt mainly because I want to see if he looks better in a normal season and just my thoughts is that having an OEL and Schmidt pairing could be pretty good

Edited July 25, 2021 by goblix

[combover]

This is hilarious.

from what I’m reading it sounds like the most avid supporters are saying basically if we can get rid of all Jim ufa signing from the past three/four seasons and a few of his trades we’ll be in good shape but still think he’s doing a good job. Lol

thats classic. 
And it’s the same people that defended these pick ups    in the first place 

[appleboy]

11 minutes ago, goblix said:

Yeah the whole deal was about removing 3 contracts totaled at 12m that provided depth or minimal contributions... or in Louis case no contributions and swap them out for 2 impactful players that will equate to about the same costs

 

that 12m really handicapped the team, it definitely goes to show you how much contract term matters and in some aspects it matters more than actual cap value

 

Holtby definitely needs to go, the good thing is that if there is no actual trade outlet for him his buyout only hits us with 500k otherwise I'm still impartial on Schmidt mainly because I want to see if he looks better in a normal season and just my thoughts is that having an OEL and Schmidt pairing could be pretty good

Jim needs Schmidt's 6 mil. They need add at least one defensive D man. Plus sign Garland and Dickinson.

 

Holtby buyout hits us with $500k this year but over a mil next year. Loui's cap recapture comes off next year though. 

[bishopshodan]

3 minutes ago, combover said:

This is hilarious.

from what I’m reading it sounds like the most avid supporters are saying basically if we can get rid of all Jim ufa signing from the past three/four seasons and a few of his trades we’ll be in good shape but still think he’s doing a good job. Lol

thats classic. 
And it’s the same people that defended these pick ups    in the first place 

How we gonna make room for new pick ups without getting rid of some players and contracts?

 

I don't like all the trades and contracts Jim has done over his time. Still, this trade is great for our team at this time in our window to compete

[-DLC-]

16 minutes ago, combover said:

This is hilarious.

from what I’m reading it sounds like the most avid supporters are saying basically if we can get rid of all Jim ufa signing from the past three/four seasons and a few of his trades we’ll be in good shape but still think he’s doing a good job. Lol

thats classic. 
And it’s the same people that defended these pick ups    in the first place 

What I find funny is that people are dumbing it down to JIM = good/bad.  Wait in the wings to point out that the "avid supporters" are wrong when, really, there's a happy medium to be struck there.

 

Jim's made mistakes that have cost us, for sure.  But he's also done some great things (hence, why I'm exciting about the upcoming season and you should likely be too).  People who are stuck on things and can't look past them in a forest for the trees way celebrate the mistakes instead of accepting that all teams will make some at some point.  It's not exclusive to Jim Benning.  It's not static or a contest with an end date...it's a work in progress deal.  But to deny that this young core has great potential is a blind agenda.

 

Hockey rosters are always going to involve taking some chances - some of which pay off, others that don't.  

 

You don't like Petey?  Quinn?  Brock?  We defended those picks too.  So if you're going to bask in the glory of the mistakes, please take a dip in the positive moves pool because it's refreshing to do so.

 

We are in good shape...I've seen much worse teams of aging, slow veterans mailing it in.  It's ok to make mistakes and then move past them.  Therapy is based on that concept.  It's called growth and keeps people from getting stagnant.

 

But hey, gloat away.  For now.

[RUPERTKBD]

1 hour ago, Dazzle said:

Didn't like OELs body language?

 

You should be called Jack Reacher because you're reaching to find something to complain about it. I know you've probably got me on ignore lmfao.

Besides, everyone knows that Swedish body language doesn't translate well into English body language....

 

All those interviews where Petey looks like the love child of Tilda Swinton and Robocop? Inccorect body language interpretation. On the inside, he's as giddy as Burr after hearing that Stephane Auger "retired"....

[mll]

58 minutes ago, Fanuck said:

I too thought JB could've squeezed for more retention on OEL.  I read AZ was desperate to get their first back and OEL was very specific on teams he'd waive for so...  I wonder if anyone has crunched the numbers on the exact totality of money out vs money in on all the players involved for the length of their existing contracts (yes I understand CG is RFA but his contract could be extrapolated).  Just curious on that.

 

One question nobody has been able to answer is whether or not JB voided OEL's clauses when the transaction took place as GM's can do that in certain cases.

Clauses now automatically travel with the player even if they waive for a trade.   It was part of the changes to the CBA approved last summer.

 

OEL has a full NMC on all his remaining years per CapFriendly.  

 

[Dazzle]

16 minutes ago, combover said:

This is hilarious.

from what I’m reading it sounds like the most avid supporters are saying basically if we can get rid of all Jim ufa signing from the past three/four seasons and a few of his trades we’ll be in good shape but still think he’s doing a good job. Lol

thats classic. 
And it’s the same people that defended these pick ups    in the first place 

Everyone knows the UFA signings have been anchors at this stage. If the Luongo recapture penalty and the flat cap didn't happen, the team would still be fine cap wise. That being said, Benning got rid of his mistakes and improved his team than last year. Beagle isn't really that bad, but could've been maybe a little cheaper. Roussell got hurt and wasn't really the same. Eriksson was just a poor fit for our team, but maybe the pressure of losing money in his other business didn't help him at all.

 

When have you ever said something positive about the team, like you know, the prospects? Every single time it's always negativity from you. It's really hard to see how you're objective.

In a dire situation, there are positives.

 

[appleboy]

3 minutes ago, -DLC- said:

What I find funny is that people are dumbing it down to JIM = good/bad.  Wait in the wings to point out that the "avid supporters" are wrong when, really, there's a happy medium to be struck there.

 

Jim's made mistakes that have cost us, for sure.  But he's also done some great things (hence, why I'm exciting about the upcoming season and you should likely be too).

 

But hey, gloat away.  For now.

I think it is important to understand that this puts the club in a win now scenario. They now have a very short window before being back into a rebuilding mode. You can't trade away two first and seconds and thirds without depleting your system. Plus Miller and Horvat are UFA's in two seasons. ( which might be part of the rush)

You know what the owners have done before if the playoffs are even a tinny bit possible.  ( they refuse to trade players for assets at the trade deadline allowing them to walk for squat)

Of coarse Miller and Horvat might resign.