[Trade] Canucks trade Jay Beagle, Loui Eriksson, Antoine Roussel, 2021 1st-round pick, 2022 2nd-round pick, 2023 7th-round pick to Coyotes for Oliver Ekman-Larsson, Conor Garland

[Pears]

6 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

Another winger would allow us to keep Miller at center.

xxxx - Pettersson - Boeser

Garland - Horvat - Höglander 

Pearson - Miller - Podkolzin

Motte - Dickinson - MacEwen

 

I’m not sure I like not having a single right handed center, or if we plan on having Miller as the fulltime 3C, but just saying moving Schmidt/Holtby would give us enough room to give a certain Swedish free agent LW what he wants .

[babalu]

Heard on Garland Interview he plans to shave the stache.

Nooooooooooooooooo!!!! That stache is awesome. It's his secret weapon!

#thestachemuststay

[DeNiro]

3 minutes ago, Pears said:

xxxx - Pettersson - Boeser

Garland - Horvat - Höglander 

Pearson - Miller - Podkolzin

Motte - Dickinson - MacEwen

 

I’m not sure I like not having a single right handed center, or if we plan on having Miller as the fulltime 3C, but just saying moving Schmidt/Holtby would give us enough room to give a certain Swedish free agent LW what he wants .

Exactly.

 

If the Sedins call him up and he looks at the team Sweden we’ve got going here maybe he’s willing to sign, who knows?

 

Benning could definitely find a way to fit him in.

[oldnews]

7 hours ago, ba;;isticsports said:

You could have been talking about another 30 yr old we signed years ago (that i bolded),

 

You couldn't possibly have missed - or intentionally sidestepped the point - more thoroughly.

 

Find me a quote somewhere - anywhere - to the effect that Loui Eriksson was the worst contract in the NHL in the three years prior to Benning signing him...

 

The post you responded to refers to the bad takes that pretend / misrepresent OEL's past three seasons.   The 'er look at LE' thing - is irrelevent.

 

If you have a counterpoint - or some argument to qualify how 'bad' he's been the past three years, have at it.

 

But save the meaningless analogy - because it's just as easy to point out that Edler had some of the worst season's of his career heading up to the dreaded age of 30, followed by 3 of the better consecutive seasons of his career at 30+ -  easily worth the 6 million cap hit he was earning.

 

Neither of these tell us a thing about what will transpire with OEL.   He could decline - or he could re-uptick here. 

Garland could sign a deal for 3.5 or 4 million for that matter - and then never have a 5 goal season again.  It happens to mid 20s players as well as 30 year olds - people simply have a more general tendency to sandbag anyone approaching the dreaded 30.  There are countless exceptions to all these 'rules'.

 

Part of the real world business of being a GM is necessarily taking a lot of risks - and some of them don't turn out.

 

But to obsess over the LE experience and project it upon any/every subsequent player - isn't 'logic'.  Folks here don't seem to realize that there are more than one form of risk. One risk is doing something like this - counting on a player to sustain and not decline rapidly - while another risk is doing nothing, because you were once bitten, and now you're overcompensating with shyness as a result.  Some of the better moves GMs make are also the ones they don't make.  No one has a crystal ball - all they have are the player evaluations to the present.   All of that other talk (ie here's my negative sample - but, but, here's my positive example!) is mere distraction though - philosophy - which has little to do with player evaluation in the end.

 

What has OEL been the past three seasons?  (One of) The worst contract in the NHL?  Seriously, anyone making that claim needs to get real.

 

 

Edited July 26, 2021 by oldnews

[ChuckNORRIS4Cup]

40 minutes ago, RWMc1 said:

I don't make crap up. I have a memory. I'm not searching for the quote to mollify you though. He said what he said.

 

I never said he never said that, he probably did, but that's not what I'm addressing with you. You want to make a claim that he wasn't being shopped at all because Benning said so, and it was all fake news media creating a buzz, so why would a guy like Darren Dreger who's been around the league for a long time for credible rumors just decide oh today I'm going to just start making fake news rumors on Virtanen, with all the sources he has why would he just wake up and make a random rumor then? You can believe Benning all you want, but they also don't tell the truth all the time, but when a guy like Darren Dreger comes out with a rumor of something he heard I'm going to trust his judgment a bit more because I do believe he has a lot more inside credible sources than anyone on CDC.

 

Dreger on Insider Trading says some teams do have interest in Jake Virtanen and those teams are paying close attention to his TOI.#Canucks want a young forward in return. Dreger says keep this one on the watch list.

 

Oh but Benning said he wasn't shopping Virtanen, so this guy is just fake news then?

[babalu]

3 minutes ago, oldnews said:

You couldn't possibly have missed - or intentionally sidestepped the point - more thoroughly.

 

Find me a quote somewhere - anywhere - to the effect that Loui Eriksson was the worst contract in the NHL in the three years prior to Benning signing him...

 

The post you responded to refers to the bad takes that pretend / misrepresent OEL's past three seasons.   The 'er look at LE' thing - is irrelevent.

 

If you have a counterpoint - or some argument to qualify how 'bad' he's been the past three years, have at it.

 

But save the meaningless analogy - because it's just as easy to point out that Edler had some of the worst season's of his career heading up to the dreaded age of 30, followed by 3 of the better consecutive seasons of his career at 30+ -  easily worth the 6 million cap hit he was earning.

 

Neither of these tell us a thing about what will transpire with OEL.   He could decline - or he could re-uptick here. 

Garland could sign a deal for 3.5 or 4 million for that matter - and then never have a 5 goal season again.  It happens to mid 20s players as well as 30 year olds - people simply have a more general tendency to sandbag anyone approaching the dreaded 30.  There are countless exceptions to all these 'rules'.

 

Part of the real world business of being a GM and necessarily taking a lot of risks - some of them don't turn out.

 

But to obsess over the LE experience and project it upon any/every subsequent player - isn't 'logic'.  Folks here don't seem to realize that there are more than one form of risk. One risk is doing something like this - counting on a player to sustain and not decline rapidly - while another risk is doing nothing, because you were once bitten, and now you're overcompensating with shyness as a result.  Some of the better moves GMs make are also the ones they don't make.  No one has a crystal ball - all they have are the player evaluations to the present.   All of that other talk (ie here's my negative sample - but, but, here's my positive example!) is mere distraction though - philosophy - which has little to do with player evaluation in the end.

 

What has OEL been the past three seasons?  (One of) The worst contract in the NHL?  Seriously, anyone making that claim needs to get real.

 

 

He's only make 1.2 more than Schmidt who had 5 years on his deal when we traded for him.

I think OEL is going to be a better fit than Shmidt has been so far.

Edited July 26, 2021 by babalu

[oldnews]

1 minute ago, babalu said:

He's only make 1.2 more than Schmidt who had 5 years on his deal when we traded for him.

I think OEL is going to be a better fit than Shmidt has been so far.

I like them both.

I don't expect either of them to win a Norris - but at the same time, they're both undisputably top 4 defensemen - and they're both relatively versatile.

 

The reality for this team - is that it had a large gap - between the Edler generation - and the next.

Yeah - we have some good young prospects/good young roster defensemen - Hughes, Juolevi, possibly Rathbone and Woo - but there was and is no way around filling out the rest of our blueline with acquired/signed assets.   Both these guys came with term - signing UFAs - if you want top 4 D - requires term....

Anyhow - I'm fine with the prices the team paid in both these instances - I think the quality of both these players considerably outweighs the asset costs - and in every single circumstance, every team takes a risk when there is term involved - it's unavoidable.   Teams take comparable risks giving term to young players - arguably an equivalent risk, because while there's a decline risk with older players, there's an 'unproven'/smaller sample one-off risk with young players that get paid, often prematurely. 

I'm ok with the risk we took on OEL - because we did not pay market value for a proven top 4 defenseman imo.  What the Coyotes were rumoured to want last summer for him - needed to be walked away from imo.

This time around the negotiation obviously went/ended differently....

 

 

[rekker]

26 minutes ago, Pears said:

xxxx - Pettersson - Boeser

Garland - Horvat - Höglander 

Pearson - Miller - Podkolzin

Motte - Dickinson - MacEwen

 

I’m not sure I like not having a single right handed center, or if we plan on having Miller as the fulltime 3C, but just saying moving Schmidt/Holtby would give us enough room to give a certain Swedish free agent LW what he wants .

I think Miller should be kept with EP on the first line. Too much chemistry there. 

[Pears]

18 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

Exactly.

 

If the Sedins call him up and he looks at the team Sweden we’ve got going here maybe he’s willing to sign, who knows?

 

Benning could definitely find a way to fit him in.

Looks pretty doable to me

[babalu]

4 minutes ago, oldnews said:

I like them both.

I don't expect either of them to win a Norris - but at the same time, they're both undisputably top 4 defensemen - and they're both relatively versatile.

 

The reality for this team - is that it had a large gap - between the Edler generation - and the next.

Yeah - we have some good young prospects/good young roster defensemen - Hughes, Juolevi, possibly Rathbone and Woo - but there was and is no way around filling out the rest of our blueline with acquired/signed assets.   Both these guys came with term - signing UFAs - if you want top 4 D - requires term....

Anyhow - I'm fine with the prices the team paid in both these instances - I think the quality of both these players considerably outweighs the asset costs - and in every single circumstance, every team takes a risk when there is term involved - it's unavoidable.   Teams take comparable risks giving term to young players - arguably an equivalent risk, because while there's a decline risk with older players, there's an 'unproven'/smaller sample one-off risk with young players that get paid, often prematurely. 

I'm ok with the risk we took on OEL - because we did not pay market value for a proven top 4 defenseman imo.  What the Coyotes were rumoured to want last summer for him - needed to be walked away from imo.

This time around the negotiation obviously went/ended differently....

 

 

You also have to consider that we dumped 12m in cap this year and they retained 12% of OEL's contract. This in itself has value. Other recent deals the yotes just made for cap dumps were 2 2nds and a 3rd for 2 years of Ladd at 5.5 and a 2nd and 7th to take Gostisbehere who is a guy who can still play in their line up. 6m of the cap they took from us was Loui F'ing Eriksson. We also got a skilled forward with a high compete level in Garland.

[RWMc1]

28 minutes ago, ChuckNORRIS4Cup said:

 

I never said he never said that, he probably did, but that's not what I'm addressing with you. You want to make a claim that he wasn't being shopped at all because Benning said so, and it was all fake news media creating a buzz, so why would a guy like Darren Dreger who's been around the league for a long time for credible rumors just decide oh today I'm going to just start making fake news rumors on Virtanen, with all the sources he has why would he just wake up and make a random rumor then? You can believe Benning all you want, but they also don't tell the truth all the time, but when a guy like Darren Dreger comes out with a rumor of something he heard I'm going to trust his judgment a bit more because I do believe he has a lot more inside credible sources than anyone on CDC.

 

Dreger on Insider Trading says some teams do have interest in Jake Virtanen and those teams are paying close attention to his TOI.#Canucks want a young forward in return. Dreger says keep this one on the watch list.

 

Oh but Benning said he wasn't shopping Virtanen, so this guy is just fake news then?

This is the quote that everyone twisted into Benning is shopping Jake.

 

“I thought he worked and competed hard in the playoffs. He scored that big goal for us in Game 6. To be perfectly honest with you, though, I was expecting more from Jake in the playoffs,” Benning said on Sportsnet 650 on Tuesday afternoon. “He can skate, he’s strong. He can get to the net. He’s a guy we’re going to have to talk about here going forward. We’ve been patient with him in his development, but he’s a guy I was expecting to produce more for us.”

 

Whether he was or not, I don't know. I'm saying that Benning never said that he was shopping Jake, yet people claim that he did based on that quote.

 

 

This is my original statement that you quoted and misinterpreted. "We weren't shopping him last year. That is a false narrative perpetuated by media and CDC. Benning called him out and that was twisted in to he was being shopped".

Edited July 26, 2021 by RWMc1

[ChuckNORRIS4Cup]

1 minute ago, RWMc1 said:

This is the quote that everyone twisted into Benning is shopping Jake.

 

“I thought he worked and competed hard in the playoffs. He scored that big goal for us in Game 6. To be perfectly honest with you, though, I was expecting more from Jake in the playoffs,” Benning said on Sportsnet 650 on Tuesday afternoon. “He can skate, he’s strong. He can get to the net. He’s a guy we’re going to have to talk about here going forward. We’ve been patient with him in his development, but he’s a guy I was expecting to produce more for us.”

 

Whether he was or not, I don't know. I'm saying that Benning never said that he was shopping Jake, yet people claim that he did based on that quote.

Well as you can see I'm trusting a guy like Dreger for if Virtanen was being shopped or not at the deadline, and he seemed to have inside scoop that there was something going on I trust that.

 

Regarding that quote, it seems more like frustration from Benning for not moving Virtanen 

[Ilya Mikheyev]

2 hours ago, Schmautzie said:

Laurent Broissoit is a local kid who always seem to play well against the Canucks. He’s a UFA who I believe played for 1.5 mill. last season in Winnipeg.

Would be an ideal Holtby replacement, but most of Holtby's contract would have to be off the books to make it worth it, because Brossoit is likely to command around 2M next year

[RWMc1]

1 minute ago, ChuckNORRIS4Cup said:

Well as you can see I'm trusting a guy like Dreger for if Virtanen was being shopped or not at the deadline, and he seemed to have inside scoop that there was something going on I trust that.

 

Regarding that quote, it seems more like frustration from Benning for not moving Virtanen 

That quote was from right after the Playoffs.

 

He refuted shopping Jake before last season started. That's when he said that he was giving Jake    a wake up call. (paraphrase)

 

Many media people perpetuated that but the original rumour started from the quote that I provided.

[UnkNuk]

6 hours ago, AbrasiveAjax said:

Your talking Buffalo management and ownership style. I agree with you that another loosing year and changes in coaching and management are inevitable. Sorry i dont agree with blowing up the core. 2 more years of loosing and i may change my mind..........

 

IMHO our core is very good, not perfect but worthy of building around it for 5+ - years. Mixing in the ideal support/role players is now the main focus and challenge going forward. 

 

Winning the cup should and will always be the goal but that said, fielding an exciting competitive playoff team for the foreseeable future would get my CANUCKS mojo going again. 

 

Go Canucks go 

 

 

Thing is, if our core is very good they should make the playoffs.

 

If they don't make the playoffs, it suggests that our core isn't as good as we like to think it is.

[Tyster]

On 7/23/2021 at 4:20 PM, Beary Sweet said:

This is my take on our projected lineup this upcoming season barring any other acquisitions:

 

Miller - Petey - Boeser

Pearson - Bo - Garland

Hoglander - Dickinson - Podkolzin

Motte - Cheap, depth C -Lockwood

 

Hughes - Schmidt

Ekman Larsson - Rathbone

Juolevi - Myers

 

 

Demko

Holtby

 

 

sign a cheap, bottom six forward like Turris or something. Add a depth defenceman as well. We still got a 2nd rounder tomorrow so hopefully we add a C or RHD since we’re currently lacking in those areas. 

Miller – Horvat – Boeser

Hoglander – Pettersson – Podkolzin

Pearson – Dickinson – Garland

[DeNiro]

20 minutes ago, Pears said:

Looks pretty doable to me

Not for 8 mil.

 

He’d have to come here on a 6.5-7 mil deal.

 

Then sign Edler and Hamonic for cheap and wait till Ferland goes on LTIR to add a couple more depth guys.

[Pears]

2 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

Not for 8 mil.

 

He’d have to come here on a 6.5-7 mil deal.

 

Then sign Edler and Hamonic for cheap and wait till Ferland goes on LTIR to add a couple more depth guys.

Since he wants $9m-$10m, I figured $8m would be good enough to convince him. But if we can get him for $7m, that would be huge. 

[UnkNuk]

6 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Because it would take the better part of 10 years to replace them all.  Where exactly are you going to find a #1 centre, #2 centre, #1/#2 Dman, #1 goalie, #1 right winger plus all the supporting pieces?

 

The only way to do that is to start from scratch and collect high picks.  And then what happens if those players aren't good enough?  Edmonton has the best player in the world.  Are they going to trade him if they miss the playoffs?  Do you want Vancouver to be like Buffalo right now, who don't have a hope in hell of ever seeing any playoff action for at least 5-7 years?  Same with Arizona.  

 

Vancouver is a hockey town.  if you've been around long enough you will know we've had long stretches of zero success.  You can't just simply trade the whole team that's taken 7 years to build and start from scratch.  Benning is tinkering with the team right now, adding pieces and getting rid of others.  There is only so much he can do with a flat cap.  Everyone has been bit**ing to get rid of all the bad contracts.  He did that with one trade.  Now people are bit**ing that he gave up the 1st round pick and that OEL is a has been and bottom pairing Dman.

 

You can't please everyone and quite frankly Benning and the Aquilini family don't care.  Benning could trade for McJesus tomorrow and people would still complain...

Let me repeat:  I think the Canucks are going to get into the playoffs this year.

 

But IF they should miss the playoffs again this year, why do you think we'll make the playoffs next year or the year after with this group?

 

To me, if the Canucks miss the playoffs this year without any extenuating circumstances, it will show that I, and most everyone else here, have seriously over-rated our core group.  And it should be blown up.

 

But since the Canucks ARE going to make the playoffs this year, this discussion is really kind of theoretical.  (We hope.)

[ChuckNORRIS4Cup]

7 minutes ago, RWMc1 said:

That quote was from right after the Playoffs.

 

He refuted shopping Jake before last season started. That's when he said that he was giving Jake    a wake up call. (paraphrase)

 

Many media people perpetuated that but the original rumour started from the quote that I provided.

Well the rumors have started all the way back in 2018 tbh at the draft when he was almost moved that barley anyone knows about, but there was this one in 2019.

 

The latest one comes from longtime Colorado Avalanche writer Adrian Dater, who is reporting that he’s heard trade “chatter” concerning the Vancouver Canucks.

 

The Canucks, Dater says, are offering Jake Virtanen and a 2020 first-round pick to the Avalanche in exchange for defenceman Tyson Barrie.

 

Who Dater is I don't know but again Dreger came out and said Canucks were interested in Barrie

 

Dreger - Teams have been talking with the Avalanche and kicking the tires on Tyson Barrie and Carl Soderberg. Vancouver and Arizona have been in the mix there. There's other activity surrounding the Canucks as well as the Rangers. Things should get interesting tonight. #NHLDraft

 

I just don't believe everything Benning says, he also claimed Loui Eriksson was going to be this scoring forward for the Canucks, looks like he lied there