kanucks25 Posted September 29, 2021 Share Posted September 29, 2021 42 minutes ago, The Lock said: So then what's your stance on this? Do you think Player Name deserves to be talked about in the manner in which he has? For sure Loui deserves blame for being lousy like 99.9% of his time here. But when an investor invests in a flop for X, Y, Z reason, do you blame the investment for being bad or the investor for not doing a good job in trying to predict what may happen (which is a big part of his job)? Sometimes it's just bad luck, sometimes it's out of desperation (which is on the investor), and sometimes they didn't consider reason A, B, C (which is on the investor). There were good reasons not to make that signing. It's on Benning for pulling the trigger despite those reasons. 44 minutes ago, The Lock said: I'm not meaning to say Benning wouldn't be entirely at fault for things, but there definately is the extra factor of hindsight that we have now that we didn't have during the actual signing. I deem Benning's mistake more out of desperation of wanting to stay competitive more than the contract itself. See line 2 of in the signature below. 45 minutes ago, The Lock said: Quick Edit: The other thing to consider is how many bad contracts there ended up being the day Player Name was signed: Player Name, Lucic, Backes, Ladd, Okposo, etc. It was clearly a player-driven market at that time. See line 3 in the signature below. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted September 29, 2021 Share Posted September 29, 2021 (edited) 10 minutes ago, kanucks25 said: Curious what this has to do with anything lol? Just that MG made crappy signings too. Like Booth and Ballard with the entirety of his clause savings. Both got bought out. Garrison. All the MG-Lovers bring up is how awesome Erhoff was. Whoopie freaking do. So i'd call this deflecting. Edit: BTW. Ballard and Booth would be 12-13 in 2018-2019. Cap percentage wise. Edited September 29, 2021 by IBatch 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanucks25 Posted September 29, 2021 Share Posted September 29, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, IBatch said: Just that MG made crappy signings too. I never argued otherwise, and definitely didn't mention anything remotely related to MG in the post he quoted. Edited September 29, 2021 by kanucks25 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted September 29, 2021 Share Posted September 29, 2021 Just now, kanucks25 said: I never argued otherwise, and definitely didn't mention anything remotely related to MG the post he quoted. For sure i was just answering your question...it was about deflecting off JB onto MG. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted September 29, 2021 Share Posted September 29, 2021 1 minute ago, kanucks25 said: I never argued otherwise, and definitely didn't mention anything remotely related to MG the post he quoted. So we can pick on MG, because it's just too easy with hindsight right? Same hindsight with JB, we should go back and bring up the LE signing .... not too many weren't happy about it at the time. Also on Booth and Ballard - i thought we'd just put two cherries on top of a wonderful cake. Didn't work though. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canucks Curse Posted September 29, 2021 Share Posted September 29, 2021 to BUF Petey OJ VAN 2022 1st To VAN Dahlin BUF 2022 1st unprotected To NJD Hughes Motte Podkolzin To VAN Zacha Ty smith Severson Miles Woods Miller Zacha Boeser Garland Horvat Hogz Pearson Dickinson Woods Gadjo Sutter Lockwood OEL Myers Dahlin Severson Smyth Poolman Rathbone Schenn plus BUF's unprotected 1st baby!!!!! 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted September 29, 2021 Share Posted September 29, 2021 (edited) 50 minutes ago, kanucks25 said: For sure Loui deserves blame for being lousy like 99.9% of his time here. But when an investor invests in a flop for X, Y, Z reason, do you blame the investment for being bad or the investor for not doing a good job in trying to predict what may happen (which is a big part of his job)? Sometimes it's just bad luck, sometimes it's out of desperation (which is on the investor), and sometimes they didn't consider reason A, B, C (which is on the investor). There were good reasons not to make that signing. It's on Benning for pulling the trigger despite those reasons. See line 2 of in the signature below. See line 3 in the signature below. Okay, if you're going to hide behind a signature, I'm not going to debate with you. Your points make sense (albeit easily debatable) but the tone screams arrogance. It's not worth my time when clearly you think you're above everyone else and will not be convinced otherwise, just being honest. (I've also been coding all day and I'm tired and not in a good mood... like you don't want to debate with me right now lol) Edited September 29, 2021 by The Lock 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanP Posted September 29, 2021 Share Posted September 29, 2021 10 hours ago, Timråfan said: No, Benning shouldn’t have paid him six mill til he knew Loui was so adaptable as you think. So, a player who was successful in 2 completely different systems with different coaches, playing in Boston and Dallas prior to signing a contract with the Canucks doesn't seem like someone who would adapt? And we are talking about 2 different coaches in Canucks during his play here. Please stop deflecting the blame. At the time of the signing, Player Name was at the top of the UFA list and Canucks weren't the only team after his services. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballisticsports. Posted September 29, 2021 Share Posted September 29, 2021 2 hours ago, The Lock said: So then what's your stance on this? Do you think Player Name deserves to be talked about in the manner in which he has? I'm not meaning to say Benning wouldn't be entirely at fault for things, but there definately is the extra factor of hindsight that we have now that we didn't have during the actual signing. I deem Benning's mistake more out of desperation of wanting to stay competitive more than the contract itself. Quick Edit: The other thing to consider is how many bad contracts there ended up being the day Player Name was signed: Player Name, Lucic, Backes, Ladd, Okposo, etc. It was clearly a player-driven market at that time. Exactly why i am never a fan of getting into long term bidding wars for UFA and why i wasn't one of the ones excited for LE, and players you mentioned among Karlsson, Subban etc I am more a fan of getting picks or promising players, remember when Calgary traded Nilsson and got Nieuwendyk and everyone was what??? My point is Rarely do UFA live up to expectations for the term they sign and i would rather avoid them altogether unless it is because they WANT to play here for good term and money, not because it was the best offer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted September 29, 2021 Share Posted September 29, 2021 6 minutes ago, ba;;isticsports said: Exactly why i am never a fan of getting into long term bidding wars for UFA and why i wasn't one of the ones excited for LE, and players you mentioned among Karlsson, Subban etc I am more a fan of getting picks or promising players, remember when Calgary traded Nilsson and got Nieuwendyk and everyone was what??? My point is Rarely do UFA live up to expectations for the term they sign and i would rather avoid them altogether unless it is because they WANT to play here for good term and money, not because it was the best offer I think the last UFAs that really worked out were Chara and Hossa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzle Posted September 29, 2021 Share Posted September 29, 2021 7 minutes ago, King Heffy said: I think the last UFAs that really worked out were Chara and Hossa. I think Panarin is an incredible UFA signing, but he alone can't fix a broken team; no one can. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted September 29, 2021 Share Posted September 29, 2021 6 minutes ago, Dazzle said: I think Panarin is an incredible UFA signing, but he alone can't fix a broken team; no one can. He's a good one, I was looking at guys who made big impacts on Cup champions. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timråfan Posted September 29, 2021 Share Posted September 29, 2021 1 hour ago, RomanP said: So, a player who was successful in 2 completely different systems with different coaches, playing in Boston and Dallas prior to signing a contract with the Canucks doesn't seem like someone who would adapt? And we are talking about 2 different coaches in Canucks during his play here. Please stop deflecting the blame. At the time of the signing, Player Name was at the top of the UFA list and Canucks weren't the only team after his services. Well, why so desperate to sign him? A sign of great leadership is be able to restrain themselves when the goodies dangle in front of them. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timråfan Posted September 29, 2021 Share Posted September 29, 2021 2 hours ago, Me_ said: Not really… You don’t think the GM staff and the coaching staff get talk about that on a regular basis? You’re fishing wood chips bud. Exactly, that should mean that Loui isn’t a fit on a small rink. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted September 29, 2021 Share Posted September 29, 2021 2 minutes ago, Timråfan said: Exactly, that should mean that Loui isn’t a fit on a small rink. Maybe Loui is too big for the NHL. This may have been the problem the whole time. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted September 29, 2021 Share Posted September 29, 2021 28 minutes ago, Timråfan said: Well, why so desperate to sign him? A sign of great leadership is be able to restrain themselves when the goodies dangle in front of them. You are aware that they signed him to placate the Sedins too right? Aren't they also Swedish greats in your mind? To me they were just doing a favour for them to pad their stats on the way to the retiring. Nothing more nothing less. RW. Played with them internationally. Re-tool was built around the absolute fact we couldn't trade the Sedins. Was the key metric. We went after Iginla, and Miller ... didn't get Iginla instead the second best in Vrbata. Then did it again with LE. Vancouver and Sweden have had a storied history, but this wasn't one of their best moments at all. Best thing for the club would have been to cut bait before JB arrived but it was too late. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timråfan Posted September 29, 2021 Share Posted September 29, 2021 24 minutes ago, IBatch said: You are aware that they signed him to placate the Sedins too right? Aren't they also Swedish greats in your mind? To me they were just doing a favour for them to pad their stats on the way to the retiring. Nothing more nothing less. RW. Played with them internationally. Re-tool was built around the absolute fact we couldn't trade the Sedins. Was the key metric. We went after Iginla, and Miller ... didn't get Iginla instead the second best in Vrbata. Then did it again with LE. Vancouver and Sweden have had a storied history, but this wasn't one of their best moments at all. Best thing for the club would have been to cut bait before JB arrived but it was too late. Large rink, small rink… Are you biased or not? Large rink a big yes, small rink, analyse ver hard before. It was probably here Benning and coaches got a little blind. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timråfan Posted September 29, 2021 Share Posted September 29, 2021 55 minutes ago, JM_ said: Maybe Loui is too big for the NHL. This may have been the problem the whole time. Yeah, probably a big issue owning his own restaurants. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME Posted September 29, 2021 Share Posted September 29, 2021 55 minutes ago, JM_ said: Maybe Loui is too big for the NHL. This may have been the problem the whole time. It’s true. Loui is a giant among men, even a giant among giants. Too big for the NHL. Too big for his britches. Too big to fail. And too big for the Vancouver Canucks. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted September 29, 2021 Share Posted September 29, 2021 2 minutes ago, Timråfan said: Yeah, probably a big issue owning his own restaurants. Loui's Big Boy? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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