FaninMex Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 24 minutes ago, The Lock said: I mean, he's won a cup in Washington. He could just want to play the game for as long as possible or want to play out his contract out of good will (he's being paid well for his job afterall). Remember, he's played for us for years now... and it's not like we were that good. lol Benning wanted wins and we also made the bubble exciting. Arizona wants lottery picks and the highest chance at number 1. Different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinatcc Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 34 minutes ago, King Heffy said: Beagle probably retires at the end of this season. Won a Cup, and isn't going to get a big payday. Yeah I guess Benning took care of that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, FaninMex said: Benning wanted wins and we also made the bubble exciting. Arizona wants lottery picks and the highest chance at number 1. Different. Still, I don't really see how that would necessarily change Beagle's mentality. It's kind of an unfounded assumption either way. I guess my question would be why not still try to do your best despite the circumstances? Edited October 20, 2021 by The Lock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaninMex Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 3 hours ago, The Lock said: Still, I don't really see how that would necessarily change Beagle's mentality. It's kind of an unfounded assumption either way. I guess my question would be why not still try to do your best despite the circumstances? Can we agree that hockey is mental? OEL talked about it when he said the last 2ish years he wasn't motivated to play. He was having down years. So, if management wants you to lose, why are you going to jump in front of a puck and break a bone for no reason. It is just another injury or surgery that you do not need to feel a few years later. Believe me, all those bones you break come back to remind you. When I hit 38, they all came back to say hi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 (edited) 9 hours ago, FaninMex said: Can we agree that hockey is mental? OEL talked about it when he said the last 2ish years he wasn't motivated to play. He was having down years. So, if management wants you to lose, why are you going to jump in front of a puck and break a bone for no reason. It is just another injury or surgery that you do not need to feel a few years later. Believe me, all those bones you break come back to remind you. When I hit 38, they all came back to say hi. Again though, these are assumptions that are being made. You're assuming management's telling Beagle to lose. You're assuming Beagle doesn't just enjoy the game for what it is. We can agree that hockey is mental, but can we also agree that every hockey player is different and not necessarily of the same mold that you are implying here? I get that we're talking about a former Canuck, but I don't understand why people want to be so bitter about things when this trade is clearly turning out well for us. I also don't understand why people want to make assumptions and almost seemingly want the worst for Beagle and Arizona. I understand the logic by which you want to assume all of this, but the problem is these are merely assumptions and there's also logic against what you're saying. Every player is different at the end of the say and to lump a player, any player, into such a mold, to me, is almost an insult to said player. That's just the way I view it. Edited October 20, 2021 by The Lock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaninMex Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 10 minutes ago, The Lock said: Again though, these are assumptions that are being made. You're assuming management's telling Beagle to lose. You're assuming Beagle doesn't just enjoy the game for what it is. We can agree that hockey is mental, but can we also agree that every hockey player is different and not necessarily of the same mold that you are implying here? I get that we're talking about a former Canuck, but I don't understand why people want to be so bitter about things when this trade is clearly turning out well for us. I also don't understand why people want to make assumptions and almost seemingly want the worst for Beagle and Arizona. Sure they are assumptions. The main idea stemmed from someone saying the Beagle was not trying, that he was standing there. I commented and it turned into this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 Just now, FaninMex said: Sure they are assumptions. The main idea stemmed from someone saying the Beagle was not trying, that he was standing there. I commented and it turned into this. That's fair. I guess we'll see what happens throughout the season really along with whether Beagle gets another contract in the NHL afterwards or not. Maybe he has lost his drive or maybe there's more to it than what meets the eye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 6 hours ago, FaninMex said: Sure they are assumptions. The main idea stemmed from someone saying the Beagle was not trying, that he was standing there. I commented and it turned into this. Beagle was one of the hardest working guys we had. It's a big part of why his body broke down and he's not able to play at the same level anymore. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me_ Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 Just a reminder of how awesome this thing is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTramFan Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 On 10/20/2021 at 5:10 AM, wallstreetamigo said: I am willing to bet good money the only time you saw OEL play the last 7 years were games against the Canucks. He had a serious decline in his defensive effectiveness. It has been pretty dissected in the media and despite your claims there is a lot of evidence of it that has been put out there. They have no reason to just make stuff up about him. Whether he was mentally drained by the Arizona experience or whatever other reasons, he was far less effective defensively even as his role became what should have been easier playing less against top players. He has looked good so far in Van on both sides of the puck. Let’s hope that continues. But why rewrite history? I watched him play a lot the last few years and he had clearly declined sharply from about 4 years ago. It’s not a slight on him it’s just fact. If the trade is a clear win this year that’s all Benning really needs to save his job for a few more years. What it looks like in 5 years won’t really matter much to him as he will very likely already be gone if this core doesn’t start making it far in the playoffs. That’s why he took the gamble on long term money vs short term money. And that’s ok. It will eventually very likely be wasted cap at least to some degree at some point like most big money contracts for players in their 30’s. This year is really all that matters to Benning right now. So how much “good money” are you giving me? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 On 10/20/2021 at 4:17 PM, Me_ said: Just a reminder of how awesome this thing is. It’s a classic short term vs long term deal. It could end up being great for both teams or could be good for Van for a few then better for Arizona. There are a lot of moving parts to it that won’t be known for awhile. What if the coyotes get 1st overall pick as a result of trading 2 quality players for 3 garbage ones? What if Guenther becomes a star? What if they draft a stud with that 2nd rounder? What will they use the 5 years of cap relief for that they bought? Short term it’s clearly a win for Van. That’s not what Arizona was looking at though. Long term? Who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 19 minutes ago, BigTramFan said: So how much “good money” are you giving me? None since it’s clear you never watched him play bud. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me_ Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 Just now, wallstreetamigo said: It’s a classic short term vs long term deal. It could end up being great for both teams or could be good for Van for a few then better for Arizona. There are a lot of moving parts to it that won’t be known for awhile. What if the coyotes get 1st overall pick as a result of trading 2 quality players for 3 garbage ones? What if Guenther becomes a star? What if they draft a stud with that 2nd rounder? What will they use the 5 years of cap relief for that they bought? Short term it’s clearly a win for Van. That’s not what Arizona was looking at though. Long term? Who knows. Make sure you don’t take a chance. You may be successful. And that would be very unfortunate. Wouldn’t it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 Just now, Me_ said: Make sure you don’t take a chance. You may be successful. And that would be very unfortunate. Wouldn’t it. I think the trade makes some sense for both teams based on where they are at and represents both taking a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me_ Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 Just now, wallstreetamigo said: I think the trade makes some sense for both teams based on where they are at and represents both taking a chance. Exactly. So far, both Garland and OEL have looked amazing out there. They’ve each brought some much needed elements to the Canucks. The team is playing much better than last year already. You can feel they get in the zone. Having to face OEL and then Hughes and both on the PP at the same time, now that’s just ridiculous depth. The Canucks have two 1Ds out there covering almost the entire game in minutes played. Finally and yet again, when this team is clicking, they are borderline spectacular. Probably not a Cup winner for a little more while. But within the next three to five years, I believe that a Cup is an achievable goal. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 21 minutes ago, Me_ said: Exactly. So far, both Garland and OEL have looked amazing out there. They’ve each brought some much needed elements to the Canucks. The team is playing much better than last year already. You can feel they get in the zone. Having to face OEL and then Hughes and both on the PP at the same time, now that’s just ridiculous depth. The Canucks have two 1Ds out there covering almost the entire game in minutes played. Finally and yet again, when this team is clicking, they are borderline spectacular. Probably not a Cup winner for a little more while. But within the next three to five years, I believe that a Cup is an achievable goal. There is still a lot of work to do. The roster has been upgraded. Not sure I would say they have looked overly dangerous yet but the potential to be is there. The problem hasn’t been the defensemen to everyone’s surprise. It’s been the forwards and the systems. This roster is built to control the play and be aggressive in either zone. Unfortunately we are still playing dump and chase with passive defensive zone play. If the coach ever realizes the adjustments that need to be made this team could do some damage. Until he does I expect more of the inconsistent effort and results game to game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTramFan Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 (edited) 39 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said: None since it’s clear you never watched him play bud. As usual you post with absolutely no idea what you are talking about and with no proof or evidence to back it up. Edited October 23, 2021 by BigTramFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, BigTramFan said: As usual you post with absolutely no idea what you are talking about and with no proof or evidence to back it up. As usual, people ignore the literally dozens upon dozens of articles over the past year that show in detail exactly how he had declined the past 3 or 4 years. And expect everyone to just believe them with no actual evidence that all that other evidence is wrong. And as usual, people just can’t be objective about a player once he puts on a Canucks jersey. Edited October 23, 2021 by wallstreetamigo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 4 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said: As usual, people ignore the literally dozens upon dozens of articles over the past year that show in detail exactly how he had declined the past 3 or 4 years. And expect everyone to just believe them with no actual evidence that all that other evidence is wrong. And as usual, people just can’t be objective about a player once he puts on a Canucks jersey. The problem is most of those articles are relying on analytics instead of actually watching him play. He had AHLers for partners and a coach who made Green look like a Jack Adams candidate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, King Heffy said: The problem is most of those articles are relying on analytics instead of actually watching him play. He had AHLers for partners and a coach who made Green look like a Jack Adams candidate. Actually many of the articles used a very fair mix of statistical comparisons between OEL and himself in prior years. It showed a clear pattern of quality scoring chances spiking when he was out there in recent years. It also showed a significant drop in his ability to defend. It also showed clearly that the problem wasn’t his partners it was him. He was among the worst partner to have on their entire defense and other guys stats were worse with him than with anyone else. The common factor in that was him being their partner so how does he not get any responsibility in that? He himself said his play had declined the last several years. He didn’t blame his teammates or coach. So why would he say that if it wasn’t true? He was overtaken by Chychrun for the harder minutes and yet was a drain on his team defensively with easier minutes. Not sure how that gets explained away as nothing to do with him. I watched him a lot the last 5 years and the eye test certainly supported the many statistical examples of his defensive game deteriorating. Edited October 23, 2021 by wallstreetamigo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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