canuck73_3 Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 1 minute ago, JohnTavares said: I actually did. I said this trade sucked in February, while OEL was having his "Great" season. He wasn't "great" btw. He was probably playing at a $5M level which is still overpaid for his deal. This year he's been lost - probably playing at a replacement level defenseman ($2-3M). Oh well you said the trade sucks, never mind silly me, I forgot you’re the only opinion that matters on the valuation of our trades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanSeanBean Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 1 hour ago, Neutral said: I know Garland is still at a good age and could stay here but would we entertain a deal with Pit possibly? Blueger- Injured at the moment and a pending UFA maybe we can retain him and he be a #3C for us? Kapanen- fast forward who can play PK has an extra year at 3.2m- Could Pit retain a bit or take another Canuck to even salaries out in a deal? Draft pick- ideally no lower than a 2nd for Garland Joshua/Stillman/Rathbone/Burroughs(if we won't play him!) some canuck with a low cap hit to even out or come out slightly ahead cap wise I would honestly be shocked if we got a deal that big for Garland. Bjorkstrand just went for a 3rd and 4th this offseason. To me, he seems like a pretty good comparable to Garland. It's wild that you could argue that we traded Guenther for him just a couple years ago and now I personally doubt we could get a 2nd... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 24 minutes ago, Shayster007 said: I would honestly be shocked if we got a deal that big for Garland. Bjorkstrand just went for a 3rd and 4th this offseason. To me, he seems like a pretty good comparable to Garland. It's wild that you could argue that we traded Guenther for him just a couple years ago and now I personally doubt we could get a 2nd... To be fair, those prices were symptom of circumstance, not actual player value. And a team closer to the TDL with either banked cap and/or LTIR, with the cap reportedly rising, as well as likely expiring cap to cover future years, who's looking to push in the playoffs....that circumstance (and hence value) looks a lot different. 10 hours ago, N7Nucks said: I still think this trade is good. Call me stupid. I don't care. What is wrong with Garland? What is wrong with OEL playing 22 minutes a game with scrubs that should be depth or even AHLers? Sure 7mil is a steep price. But I am a big proponent of our scrub defenders not having to play a ton of defense. Y'all can love Hughes all you want I love him too, he's not good defensively. OEL takes those grueling shifts against the top opposing scorers. And he has to do it with trashcans and AHL jobbers. Give me a break before you come at me with the he sucks storyline. The only thing I'll say is, the trade aged poorly cause management can't build a good team for the life of them. That's the only angle I'll concede. I honestly think if we nabbed Marino to play with OEL, he'd be looking really good right now. Marino is filling more or less the same niche as OEL. They 100% would have been a really great two way pair. But instead we're out here actively hoping to see more Burroughs. That's how bad our blueline has been. We actually want Burroughs over some of the other pylons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamonds Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 4 hours ago, Smashian Kassian said: Yeah, in hindsight Jay Beagle turned out to be a pretty big loss given we cant kill a penalty. Beagle was definitely underappreciated by fans here. He was our #1 PK forward, was consistently one of the best face-off guys in the league, and other Canucks called him an extra coach on the ice. Was he overpayed as strictly a 4th line center? Yes. But, he was more than that and was payed for the other things he brought. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-Dizzle Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 14 hours ago, JohnTavares said: Ability to think critically amongst this fanbase barely exists here anymore I still make that trade at that time in our history. I call it 50/50 with hindsight, and that has nothing to do with OEL and everything to do with how terrible we’ve been this year overall. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnTavares Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 41 minutes ago, J-Dizzle said: I still make that trade at that time in our history. I call it 50/50 with hindsight, and that has nothing to do with OEL and everything to do with how terrible we’ve been this year overall. A team that's no where close to competing for a Stanley Cup acquires a $7M anchor for a #3/4 defenseman is 50/50 with hindsight? Nah bro. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnTavares Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 1 hour ago, aGENT said: To be fair, those prices were symptom of circumstance, not actual player value. And a team closer to the TDL with either banked cap and/or LTIR, with the cap reportedly rising, as well as likely expiring cap to cover future years, who's looking to push in the playoffs....that circumstance (and hence value) looks a lot different. Denial/delusion is too strong here. This is one of the worst trades in Canuck history. If you can't see that then I just feel bad for you. This trade is also going to cost us the ability to re-sign Horvat too. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthonyG Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 3 minutes ago, JohnTavares said: Denial/delusion is too strong here. This is one of the worst trades in Canuck history. If you can't see that then I just feel bad for you. This trade is also going to cost us the ability to re-sign Horvat too. The JT Miller no trade is what will cost us Horvat. Are you kidding?? They JT should have been moved for a young RFA+prospect+pick 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnTavares Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 5 minutes ago, AnthonyG said: The JT Miller no trade is what will cost us Horvat. Are you kidding?? They JT should have been moved for a young RFA+prospect+pick JT Miller scored 99 points for us last year - it was reasonable to re-sign him to $8M. OEL was a declining second pairing defenseman with 6 years @ $7M+ when we acquired him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthonyG Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 2 minutes ago, JohnTavares said: JT Miller scored 99 points for us last year - it was reasonable to re-sign him to $8M. OEL was a declining second pairing defenseman with 6 years @ $7M+ when we acquired him. JT Miller is heading towards his decline. Hes past his prime and slowly declining. OEL had a bounce back year last year and tied his career high DPS with 4.3. Which the year prior the Norris winner had a 4.1DPS. A JT Miller trade would have done so much more for this organization and the future, than re-signing him. You’re also looking at a guy who played on arizona, a perpetually rebuilding bottom 5 team in the league year after year. Look at how much Chychrun struggled last season without OEL 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 35 minutes ago, JohnTavares said: Denial/delusion is too strong here. This is one of the worst trades in Canuck history. If you can't see that then I just feel bad for you. This trade is also going to cost us the ability to re-sign Horvat too. Nope. That would be the Miller extension. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kobayashi Maru Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 53 minutes ago, JohnTavares said: A team that's no where close to competing for a Stanley Cup acquires a $7M anchor for a #3/4 defenseman is 50/50 with hindsight? Nah bro. Does your Canucks vision have Dermott -Poolman as it’s 2nd pair. OEL is surrounded by scrubs and Myers right now. What’s your plan, time machine excluded? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthonyG Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 @JohnTavares OEL and Myers paired together this season rank top 10 for all D Pairs at 5v5 in the league with 150+mins together in GA T-3rd (5) SCA T-6th (73) HDCA T-5th (29) HDGA T-2nd (1) oiSV% 7th 94.57% They need to leave Myers and OEL together and stop splitting them up. 5v5 They’ve allowed 5 goals against in 158mins and 1 high danger goal against. 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougieL Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 2 hours ago, AnthonyG said: JT Miller is heading towards his decline. Hes past his prime and slowly declining. OEL had a bounce back year last year and tied his career high DPS with 4.3. Which the year prior the Norris winner had a 4.1DPS. A JT Miller trade would have done so much more for this organization and the future, than re-signing him. You’re also looking at a guy who played on arizona, a perpetually rebuilding bottom 5 team in the league year after year. Look at how much Chychrun struggled last season without OEL Trading OEL and Garland for Guenther and a second round pick would also do a lot for this organization's future 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougieL Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 14 hours ago, N7Nucks said: I still think this trade is good. Call me stupid. I don't care. What is wrong with Garland? What is wrong with OEL playing 22 minutes a game with scrubs that should be depth or even AHLers? Sure 7mil is a steep price. But I am a big proponent of our scrub defenders not having to play a ton of defense. Y'all can love Hughes all you want I love him too, he's not good defensively. OEL takes those grueling shifts against the top opposing scorers. And he has to do it with trashcans and AHL jobbers. Give me a break before you come at me with the he sucks storyline. The only thing I'll say is, the trade aged poorly cause management can't build a good team for the life of them. That's the only angle I'll concede. I honestly think if we nabbed Marino to play with OEL, he'd be looking really good right now. Marino is filling more or less the same niche as OEL. They 100% would have been a really great two way pair. But instead we're out here actively hoping to see more Burroughs. That's how bad our blueline has been. We actually want Burroughs over some of the other pylons. You know one thing that makes it difficult to surround OEL with good players? OELs cap hit. At 7.26m, he's supposed to be the good player that props up other players. It's the same logic as back when the Sedins were struggling on 7m contracts, and people said they needed a good winger to play with. Well...at 7m each, they're supposed to be the good winger/center for each other. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthonyG Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 26 minutes ago, dougieL said: Trading OEL and Garland for Guenther and a second round pick would also do a lot for this organization's future There is no telling what Guenther will be 5 years from now. He currently has 2pts at even strength and 5pts on the PP and all 3 of his goals have come on the PP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
combover Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 Ekman-Larsson on the other hand, apparently won't waive his no-trade clause and has been approached by the team more than once. Talk about an awkward situation brewing.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnTavares Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 3 hours ago, AnthonyG said: JT Miller is heading towards his decline. Hes past his prime and slowly declining. OEL had a bounce back year last year and tied his career high DPS with 4.3. Which the year prior the Norris winner had a 4.1DPS. A JT Miller trade would have done so much more for this organization and the future, than re-signing him. You’re also looking at a guy who played on arizona, a perpetually rebuilding bottom 5 team in the league year after year. Look at how much Chychrun struggled last season without OEL Are you seriously going to say JT Miller is heading towards his decline but also say OEL had a bounce back year? JT Miller is 15 games removed from a 99 point season. He's been playing poorly but he has 9 goals and 15 points in 16 games. He's still a safe bet for 75+ points, which puts his $8M around market value. OEL has been atrocious this year. Playing like a #4 defenseman on a $7M+ contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnTavares Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 43 minutes ago, combover said: Ekman-Larsson on the other hand, apparently won't waive his no-trade clause and has been approached by the team more than once. Talk about an awkward situation brewing.... Nobody is going to want him. His performance on-ice IS the no-trade clause. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthonyG Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 32 minutes ago, JohnTavares said: Are you seriously going to say JT Miller is heading towards his decline but also say OEL had a bounce back year? JT Miller is 15 games removed from a 99 point season. He's been playing poorly but he has 9 goals and 15 points in 16 games. He's still a safe bet for 75+ points, which puts his $8M around market value. OEL has been atrocious this year. Playing like a #4 defenseman on a $7M+ contract. Heres a fact D age better than forwards. Defence is about timing, knowing where to be and when to be there. I can take 20ft of space away in half a second as a D man. Its called gap control. Its also about angling and keeping forwards to the outside. I dont need speed to play D, I only need speed to jump in the rush. Forwards NEED speed, to be effective. Finding openings and being the first one there. The older you get, the slower you are and the harder it will be for you to get around a Dman who can keep pace with you, close the gap or take away your lane. OEL in fact DID have tie his career high DPS, which IS a bounce back. Are you seriously saying its okay for Miller to play poorly but not okay for OEL? Who by the way when paired with Myers is a top 10 pairing in the league with 150+mins together at 5v5 this season. OEL and Myers have surrendered 5 goals total in 158mins at 5v5. Just like Miller is struggling, so is OEL as is 90% of the whole roster. Podz? Boeser? Hughes? Demko? Mikheyev? Kuzmenko? No offence, You clearly do not play hockey. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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