Danila Klimovich | C

[Bure_Pavel]

 

7 minutes ago, HighOnHockey said:

Would love if that was the case, but as I said earlier, if he is capable of that, then we have an absolute homerun steal of a pick on our hands. Also I'm doubtful he is able to play AHL at 19 if he plays Q, Someone posted earlier that he was confirmed to have signed a contract with a Q team last year before he was unable to come over, thus meaning he was technically drafted out of the CHL.

Yeah tough to say what happens with him, his Q contract may be void as he was unable to enter the country. If that was the case with a contract in the Q, I dont the the AHL would even be a discussion. I haven't heard Canucks management say AHL is not a option. Q is probably the way to go though as Abby has a deep team and he need to adapt to NA hockey.    

[204CanucksFan]

24 minutes ago, HighOnHockey said:

Would love if that was the case, but as I said earlier, if he is capable of that, then we have an absolute homerun steal of a pick on our hands. Also I'm doubtful he is able to play AHL at 19 if he plays Q, Someone posted earlier that he was confirmed to have signed a contract with a Q team last year before he was unable to come over, thus meaning he was technically drafted out of the CHL.

Stierlitz found what seems to be the most definitive answer to this question. Here is a copy of his post:

 

Found some interesting document online https://media.nhl.com/site/asset/public/ext/2020-21/2020-21TransitionRulesCriticalDates.pdf

 

Rule 13, Article 8 "For purposes of determining where a Player who is drafted in the 2021 NHL Draft was “drafted from” under the provisions of Article 8, a Player will be deemed to have been “drafted from” the league and team as follows:

i) if the Player played during the 2020-21 season, the league and team for which he played during the 2020-21 season as per traditional practice, provided, however:

A) if the Player played in a league outside North America during the 2020-21 season but had never played in a league outside North America prior to the 2020-21 season, the league and team for which he played during the 2019-20 season as per the traditional practice" - not our case, as well as following points B and C...

 

Klimovich is deemed to be drafted from Europe according to this NHL document published due to the covid situation in NA. Hooray! Welcome to Abbotsford, Danila!

 

[BarnBurner]

44 minutes ago, HighOnHockey said:

Q is  a big enough step up from where he was. Pushing yourself is one thing, actual playing time is also crucial. Also we keep talking like it is the player's choice. He'd have to make the AHL team first.

Fair enough. But if it's doable, I'd rather see him in the AHL so that the Canucks have control over his development. 

[JustABandwagoner]

 

 

[HighOnHockey]

3 hours ago, 204CanucksFan said:

Stierlitz found what seems to be the most definitive answer to this question. Here is a copy of his post:

 

Found some interesting document online https://media.nhl.com/site/asset/public/ext/2020-21/2020-21TransitionRulesCriticalDates.pdf

 

Rule 13, Article 8 "For purposes of determining where a Player who is drafted in the 2021 NHL Draft was “drafted from” under the provisions of Article 8, a Player will be deemed to have been “drafted from” the league and team as follows:

i) if the Player played during the 2020-21 season, the league and team for which he played during the 2020-21 season as per traditional practice, provided, however:

A) if the Player played in a league outside North America during the 2020-21 season but had never played in a league outside North America prior to the 2020-21 season, the league and team for which he played during the 2019-20 season as per the traditional practice" - not our case, as well as following points B and C...

 

Klimovich is deemed to be drafted from Europe according to this NHL document published due to the covid situation in NA. Hooray! Welcome to Abbotsford, Danila!

 

Well no but even better, that means he could go to the Q this season and then make the jump to AHL the following season.

 

For everyone confused about the situation, here's the list of 18 year olds in AHL in the past 20 years, Elite Prospects - AHL Stats All-time season. Practically every one that played a full season and produced at a worthwhile pace was a first rounder, mostly high firsts. Also all came from first rate hockey countries so were accustomed to a much higher level of play than Klimovich is. Note that Zemgus Girgensons is not a counter-example, as he had already been playing in North America USHL for two years and was a 14th overall pick.

 

I'm not saying it's impossible, but we ought to have proper expectations. If he does play in the AHL full-time and contribute, we aren't going to say "yeah we knew that was going to happen". Rather we are going to say "holy $&!# Benning did it again."

Edited July 31, 2021 by HighOnHockey

[204CanucksFan]

26 minutes ago, HighOnHockey said:

Well no but even better, that means he could go to the Q this season and then make the jump to AHL the following season.

 

For everyone confused about the situation, here's the list of 18 year olds in AHL in the past 20 years, Elite Prospects - AHL Stats All-time season. Practically every one that played a full season and produced at a worthwhile pace was a first rounder, mostly high firsts. Also all came from first rate hockey countries so were accustomed to a much higher level of play than Klimovich is. Note that Zemgus Girgensons is not a counter-example, as he had already been playing in North America USHL for two years and was a 14th overall pick.

 

I'm not saying it's impossible, but we ought to have proper expectations. If he does play in the AHL full-time and contribute, we aren't going to say "yeah we knew that was going to happen". Rather we are going to say "holy $&!# Benning did it again."

Ahh ok, I misunderstood your question. I thought you were asking, and I'm paraphrasing, "Since he signed a contract with a QMJHL team is he even allowed to play in the AHL as a 19 year old as he may be considered as drafted out of the the CHL". I guess now that you meant more along the lines of "If he plays next season in the the QMJHL I doubt he will be skilled enough to make the team in the AHL, and should probably play 2 years in the QMJHL. And we should all temper expectations." Which is a very valid opinion.

 

I guess a lot of people here have gotten used to some of the outstanding recent draft picks in the first 2 rounds. With players like Pettersson, Hughes, Höglander and Podkolzin all making significant contributions in leagues like the NHL, SHL and KHL as 18, 19 and 20 year olds.  You are very right that expectations need to be kept at a level much more typical to the players draft position. 

 

It's just so much more fun to dream and hope he could work out like a Höglander and play at a high level in professional men's league in his D+1 year as a 2nd rounder (both selected 40th overall). But it shouldn't be expected.

Edited July 31, 2021 by 204CanucksFan

[Googlie]

8 hours ago, Bure_Pavel said:

While I think the Q would be a great development path with lots of ice time. AHL may be the better option due to the coaches and resources they will have now that they are in Abby. If he is playing fourth line limited minutes he is probably better off in the Q, the only issue is if he goes to the Q does he have to wait until he is 20 to play in Utica full time? 

Trade with the Devils pending??

[Nave]

There's no reason to rush Klimovich's development. We need to be patient. What if he played in the AHL as an 18 year old and struggled? It's a tough league. Makes more sense to let him play in the Q, and get more playing time.

[JustABandwagoner]

4 minutes ago, Nave said:

There's no reason to rush Klimovich's development. We need to be patient. What if he played in the AHL as an 18 year old and struggled? It's a tough league. Makes more sense to let him play in the Q, and get more playing time.

Just give him a shot at training camp and see where hes at. Maybe he surprises us and is ready for AHL who knows. No harm in trying. Worse case is u can send him to junior.   

[Alienhuggyflow]

14 hours ago, HighOnHockey said:

Ugh. Stop believing anything Alf says. What in God's good name makes you think he is going to "dominate" teenagers in the Q"? Do people have any idea how weak this Belarussian junior league he played last year was? The Belarussian second pro league is worse than the CHL. With Vysshaya, we're talking worse than any Canadian junior A league. But this doesn't need to be such a terrible thing. Acknowledging this fact does not mean saying it was a bad draft pick. He has talent, but he's come up through a very weak developmental system, relative to Canadians, Swedes, etc. The fact of the matter is, he is likely a worse player right now than most of the players drafted around where he was drafted. This is not pejorative, it is the way things work. Different prospects have different strengths and weaknesses and are at different places in their development. Clearly the team liked his size, athleticism, work ethic, confidence, aggressiveness, competitiveness, as well as certain aspects of his skillset. The fact that he is behind others drafted in the second round just means he has a lot of room to grow, and it is going to take a minute, but clearly Chibisov and co. like the upside.

 

One thing you said is true, we do need to seriously temper expectations. From what I've read so far the Q seems the most likely option for him this coming season. It is going to be a big step up in quality of competition for him. As I mentioned before, other top prospects who came from weaker hockey countries - even ones that went on to have success in the NHL - had an adjustment period when they came over to play major junior. Look at Bjorkstrand, Niederreiter, Rieder, Panik, etc. Of course there are exceptions for truly special talents like Ehlers, Rossi, Vanek, etc. But for a second round pick like Klimovich, anything up around 1.25 p/g for Klimovich in the Q next year would have to be considered a really good step forward.

While it's true he played with lesser competition I don't think that means all that much since the other side of the coin is he had very little skill around him. Look at the USNDP 2019 team, they were completely stacked and racked up tons of individual stats and some of those guys are showing maybe the team elevated a few who maybe shouldn't have been drafted so high. He also had six goals in the under 18s against the best prospects in the world and he looked very capable even on one of the weaker team's he managed to standout in the tourney. Sure small sample size but it's not like the Q is even the best JR league in Canada and is certainly weaker than the U18s

[Dazzle]

11 minutes ago, Alienhuggyflow said:

While it's true he played with lesser competition I don't think that means all that much since the other side of the coin is he had very little skill around him. Look at the USNDP 2019 team, they were completely stacked and racked up tons of individual stats and some of those guys are showing maybe the team elevated a few who maybe shouldn't have been drafted so high. He also had six goals in the under 18s against the best prospects in the world and he looked very capable even on one of the weaker team's he managed to standout in the tourney. Sure small sample size but it's not like the Q is even the best JR league in Canada and is certainly weaker than the U18s

He was the one with the most goals for sure, but look at that defenseman, Dmitri Kuzmin. 1 goal, 4 assists.

 

Also the goalie looks pretty good for a Belarus team. https://www.eliteprospects.com/team/1675/belarus-u18/2020-2021?tab=stats

 

I'm intrigued by the player, but I want to re-iterate (and echoing other posters) that we should not rush this guy, as I said in previous posts.

 

Edited July 31, 2021 by Dazzle

[HighOnHockey]

2 minutes ago, Alienhuggyflow said:

While it's true he played with lesser competition I don't think that means all that much since the other side of the coin is he had very little skill around him. Look at the USNDP 2019 team, they were completely stacked and racked up tons of individual stats and some of those guys are showing maybe the team elevated a few who maybe shouldn't have been drafted so high. He also had six goals in the under 18s against the best prospects in the world and he looked very capable even on one of the weaker team's he managed to standout in the tourney. Sure small sample size but it's not like the Q is even the best JR league in Canada and is certainly weaker than the U18s

 

On your first point I assume you have his stats in mind? Well sure, but my point mainly wasn't about stats. It was that playing with and against lower levels of competition he's just not going to have the same quality of development. You can roughly only develop proportionally to the extent you are challenged. My point was just that the Q is just going to be a huge step up in quality of competition. Nothing controversial there.

 

On the bolded part, this is a mistake that's really easy to make. Actually I guess it is sort of two different mistakes. Quick, what's better, NCAA or ECHL? Really tricky to answer, because the ECHL is made up of former pretty good NCAA players, so of course on average ECHL players are better than NCAA players, since they are mostly the same players but a few years older and further developed. But the ECHL has lost all of the elite talents that were in NCAA but went on to higher pro levels. With Q vs. U18s, sure the top bunch of players are among the best players in the CHL (or wherever), but as you go down the list of top players in the tournament, before too long you're getting to players who aren't or wouldn't be top players in the Q.

 

Also, there are 26 ECHL teams, while there are 60 DI NCAA teams. The difference between the best and worst DI team is astronomical. I'm betting an elite NCAA team could beat most (any?) ECHL teams, but a bottom ranked DI team wouldn't have a chance against probably any team in the ECHL. Someone pointed out earlier in the thread that 5 of Klimovich's 6 goals came in the two games against Switzerland and Latvia.

[Captain Canuck #12]

38 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

He was the one with the most goals for sure, but look at that defenseman, Dmitri Kuzmin. 1 goal, 4 assists.

 

Also the goalie looks pretty good for a Belarus team. https://www.eliteprospects.com/team/1675/belarus-u18/2020-2021?tab=stats

 

I'm intrigued by the player, but I want to re-iterate (and echoing other posters) that we should not rush this guy, as I said in previous posts.

 

So he had the most goals, least assists and highest minus in the top 10 on his team.  Sounds like he may be a bit of a one-dimensional player at this point, who is probably going to have to focus on developing more of a well-rounded, team-oriented approach before making the jump to NA pro hockey.

[Dazzle]

18 minutes ago, Captain Canuck #12 said:

So he had the most goals, least assists and highest minus in the top 10 on his team.  Sounds like he may be a bit of a one-dimensional player at this point, who is probably going to have to focus on developing more of a well-rounded, team-oriented approach before making the jump to NA pro hockey.

The stats certainly suggest what you said. I think he's actually not a one dimensional player from the little I've seen and read about him because he's known for backchecking. He is an absolute hound for the pick, which bodes well for him.

 

But yeah, I do have to admit his stats aren't overwhelmingly the best (if he had 5 more assists for example, it may be more convincing).

 

Anyway, this guy may be good, but he needs seasoning, as you said.

Edited July 31, 2021 by Dazzle

[Stierlitz]

11 hours ago, DontMessMe said:

 

I can confirm that Klimovich did not play for Dinamo Minsk in its exhibition game against Sibir. He is not supposed to, after signing NHL contract with Canucks due to the liability issue. What if he is injured in a game for a KHL club..? Sounds odd that the Klimovich agent does not know these things.

[Stierlitz]

There was short interview with Klim yesterday - we can call him Klim just like his teammates in Belarus do, this is perfectly fine. Russian teenagers often call each other by short version of their surnames, just recall the famous playoff interview with Nikita Kucherov where he call Vasilevsky "Vasya"!  And back to the interview.

https://hockey.by/news/intervyu/news148168.html

 

"I am excited to be drafted in the NHL and very thankful to Vancouver for this. I have worked hard for many years to reach this goal.

Vancouver is very beautiful city. They have very good team there."

 

What kind of player are you?

I am a sniper, I like to score goals. I think that Vancouver fans are going to be happy with my play.

 

Do you watch some American TV shows?

Ah no, I watch mostly sport channels Sportsnet, TSN. I have paid subscription. So in general, I am a big sport fan.

 

What other sports beside hockey do you like?

I often watch basketball, watched European football championship recently. My favorite football team? Let it be Manchester City. In the NBA I am a fan of Chicago and Lakers.

 

How did you learn about your draft?

I had practice and went to a shower afterwards. Then my teammates came to me and said that I was drafted. I lost all words and run to my dad. He is big part of my hockey career. I train with him every summer. I would not be here without his support.

 

What are your next plans?

I want to show myself in Vancouver training camp.

 

Edited July 31, 2021 by Stierlitz
Edit: Removed bold font, added link to the interview

[Dazzle]

52 minutes ago, Stierlitz said:

There was short interview with Klim yesterday - we can call him Klim just like his teammates in Belarus, this is perfectly fine. Russian teenagers often call each other by short version of their surnames, just recall the famous playoff interview with Nikita Kucherov where he call Vasilevsky "Vasya"!  And back to the interview.

 

I am excited to be drafted in the NHL and very thankful to Vancouver for this. I have worked hard for many years to reach this goal.

Vancouver is very beautiful city. They have very good team there.

 

What kind of player are you?

I am a sniper, I like to score goals. I think that Vancouver fans are going to be happy with my play.

 

Do you watch some American TV shows?

Ah no, I watch mostly sport channels Sportsnet, TSN. I have paid subscription. So in general, I am a big sport fan.

 

What other sports beside hockey do you like?

I often watch basketball, watched European football championship recently. My favorite football team? Let it be Manchester City. In the NBA I am a fan of Chicago and Lakers.

 

How did you learn about your draft?

I had practice and went to a shower afterwards. Then my teammates came to me and said that I was drafted. I lost all words and run to my dad. He is big part of my hockey career. I train with him every summer. I would not be here without his support.

 

What are your next plans?

I want to show myself in Vancouver training camp.

 

Seems like it is almost the exact line of questioning as the other interview that was done in English. 

 

 

[Stierlitz]

On 7/29/2021 at 5:15 PM, Googlie said:

This is Minsk

I believe you mean Dinamo Minsk. This is name of the KHL club you were asked about...

Edited July 31, 2021 by Stierlitz

[Sp3nny]

I've stated my opinion on where he should play many pages back, but I will reiterate for those who missed it, as I think it puts into perspective the situation for both those who watch his play, but also those who look at his stats.

 

VYSSHAYA is the primary league Klim played in. Looking at his stats from his draft year, you see he was near a goal per game and well over a PPG. In a normal league that we are used to (any CHL, NCAA, Allsvenskan, SHL etc) these numbers look fantastic.

 

However, if you look into the VYSS further, you will see Klim was 16th in league scoring, and even further, 38th in PPG. Some of the players have small samples of only a few games, but even removing those puts him around 20th. Still pretty good, but what if I then told you the top player was at 2.55PPG and had 2.5x as many points as Klim? Or if the second leading scorer in the league at 1.94 PPG was 5'7 115lbs? Third leading scorer was over 2 PPG, but checked in at 134lbs. In fact, the average size of the top 10 is 5'10 156lbs. And as far as I can tell, VYSS is an U20 league.

 

The top 10 scorers in the Q last year who "dominated" the league come in at an average size of 6'0 190lbs. The Q also has overage players meaning that there are many 20+ yr olds throughout the league.

 

Putting this all into context, Danila has the size the play hockey with men, and I personally would say he has the skill to as well. But should he go up against the second best men in the world? Think about it from his POV. He is used to playing against an average size of 150lbs. He likely doesn't think much of going into the corner for a puck, driving the net, or cutting through the middle of the ice, as he is much bigger than most around him. Is the next logical step for him to go to the AHL, with almost nobody else his age playing? Where the average size is likely 3' and 50lbs greater than he is used to, and most definitely more physical in nature. A league where his patented style will be neutralized, and there is less flexibility for mistakes? 

 

Or is it to a junior league, where the competition is reasonably better than he is used to, the players are 30lbs heavier than he is used to, and he is of average age in the league. Where he can make mistakes, adapt to NA amongst peers, and continue to learn to use his patented style in tougher competition.

 

To me, I think the QMJHL is the next logical step. Even if it's just one season, he will be that much more ready for the AHL the following year. I'm not saying the AHL is a bad idea, sometimes players can have great success making the jump. But those examples are extremely limited. Do we want him learning to play pro hockey on a 3rd or 4th line, or learning how to actually dominate his peers.

 

People have been using the term "dominate" like its a bad thing. Would it be terrible for him to dominate the QMJHL? Absolutely not. A case could be made that it reinforces bad habits, but thats for players who have ALREADY dominated the league using said habits. All we know about Danila so far is that he performed well in a lesser league. He needs to be given the opportunity to show how his skills translate to a tougher league, without the ask being too much.

 

The last point to consider I think, is do we consider Kole Lind as having "dominated" the WHL before moving up to the AHL? If so, how did his transition go? I'm sure we would agree that his first AHL year was a bit of a struggle for him. How will Danila's transition go, when we don't know for sure that he would "dominate" the Q. Many good players have dominated the Q and turned out just fine. See Kucherov and even our newest top 6 player in Conor Garland. Has anyone seen Garlands stats in the Q? Very high end, and he still took 2 years in the AHL after before making making the NHL.

 

All that being said, I'm sure the Canucks along with Danila will be able to make the best choice. It will be very fun watching him develop!

[Googlie]

6 minutes ago, Stierlitz said:

I believe you mean Dinamo Minsk.

Yes ...