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13 minutes ago, HighOnHockey said:

This is what good trolls do though. They take a legitimate position so it sounds reasonable at first glance, but then push it to ridiculous lengths. Look at what he juts did to you. He got you arguing that the Canucks would have less than zero say in the kid's development. don't get me wrong, I think you're right and it is a solid point, but it's pretty irrelevant. The more relevant point would have been how much say the Canucks will have in the Q, which is a lot more than near-zero. But the kicker is that little "why so insecure" comment. The whole point is to try to get under people's skin.

Conspiracy tripe aside, I'll bite on the hockey part

 

Once he goes to the Q, he's there until he's 20 (though there's grey area there and many of us here have been to wade through that), so he's not coming to Abby until he's 20 in that scenario.  Further to that, once he's there the Canucks have no say over how he's deployed or in what situations he's used in by his Jr team.  They can give him a diet plan and some workout regimens, but he's on his own to follow them.  Given the intense game schedule in the CHL, I think that's closer to not happening consistently than it is to be a steady thing. 

 

If he goes to the K, he is property of the team h plays for.  He is under contract to them and they have zero obligation to follow any of the Canucks development plan for him.  In fact, they will be actively trying to keep him in the KHL.  In this scenario, he does play against better competition and against adults, which is the best course of action for him.  However, the Canucks have no control over ice time, how he trains, how he's used etc etc.

 

To me, Abby is the best place for him

 

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8 minutes ago, Googlie said:

 

I actually like The Hockey Guy - am one of his Patreons.  I find his channel so useful when I am overses and can't get regular updates on games (ofc hasn't happened for almost 2 years now, with Covid restrictions)

 

Cant stand  legorocks - that background of NHL20 playing is so distracting

 

Top Shelf Hockey guy talks so fast it's hard to follow

 

 

He's not horrible, but he relies waaaay too much on numbers and doesn't seem to care about the game that's actually played on the ice.

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18 minutes ago, stawns said:

Conspiracy tripe aside, I'll bite on the hockey part

 

Once he goes to the Q, he's there until he's 20 (though there's grey area there and many of us here have been to wade through that), so he's not coming to Abby until he's 20 in that scenario.  Further to that, once he's there the Canucks have no say over how he's deployed or in what situations he's used in by his Jr team.  They can give him a diet plan and some workout regimens, but he's on his own to follow them.  Given the intense game schedule in the CHL, I think that's closer to not happening consistently than it is to be a steady thing. 

 

If he goes to the K, he is property of the team h plays for.  He is under contract to them and they have zero obligation to follow any of the Canucks development plan for him.  In fact, they will be actively trying to keep him in the KHL.  In this scenario, he does play against better competition and against adults, which is the best course of action for him.  However, the Canucks have no control over ice time, how he trains, how he's used etc etc.

 

To me, Abby is the best place for him

 

Conspiracy? I think you're confused. Trolls don't have to be bots or paid accounts. Some people just like to watch the world burn.

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4 minutes ago, HighOnHockey said:

Conspiracy? I think you're confused. Trolls don't have to be bots or paid accounts. Some people just like to watch the world burn.

Blah Blah Blah Reaction GIF

 

Stick to the hockey

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1 hour ago, stawns said:

Why not?  If he plays half the games, that's pretty valuable.  In the mean time, he trains with the organizations development coaches, works with fitness experts and dieticians which is more valuable.  He spends a year learning how to be a professional at 18 and ready for the NHL at 20-21, rather than starting that journey at 20-21.

 

Game play is not more valuable than practice/development time

 

You will find me far, far on the other side of that debate. Practice is just that, practice. Yes it's valuable to work on individual skills, but not moreso than actual real hockey where those skills are put into practice and you learn how to truly contribute to the on ice product.

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4 minutes ago, Sp3nny said:

You will find me far, far on the other side of that debate. Practice is just that, practice. Yes it's valuable to work on individual skills, but not moreso than actual real hockey where those skills are put into practice and you learn how to truly contribute to the on ice product.

I do think gameplay is, of course import.  It's like the test after your lessons at school.  However, Canadian hockey focuses on gameplay over skill development and practice and I think the way Euros and college programs are over yaking Canadians, that focus on practice/skill development/practice time with fewer games, shows that those elements are as, or more important.  

 

Certainly as a teacher, the lessons I teach are far more important than the exams that test the skills I've taught them

 

 

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49 minutes ago, stawns said:

I do think gameplay is, of course import.  It's like the test after your lessons at school.  However, Canadian hockey focuses on gameplay over skill development and practice and I think the way Euros and college programs are over yaking Canadians, that focus on practice/skill development/practice time with fewer games, shows that those elements are as, or more important.  

 

Certainly as a teacher, the lessons I teach are far more important than the exams that test the skills I've taught them

 

 

I think that comparison only works to a certain degree.

 

Practice and learning from pros is vital, but for a young player gameplay is the most important thing in general in my opinion. Gameplay can't be substituted with practice and young players need lots of games to develop. Half a season at 18 in the minors with likely limited minutes seems far from optimal. 

 

That said - all players are different and need different paths to succeed. If Danila for instance has the skill and physical tools already in place and just need to adjust his game to the pro level, then maybe this is the right path for him. 

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1 minute ago, J-P said:

I think that comparison only works to a certain degree.

 

Practice and learning from pros is vital, but for a young player gameplay is the most important thing in general in my opinion. Gameplay can't be substituted with practice and young players need lots of games to develop. Half a season at 18 in the minors with likely limited minutes seems far from optimal. 

 

That said - all players are different and need different paths to succeed. If Danila for instance has the skill and physical tools already in place and just need to adjust his game to the pro level, then maybe this is the right path for him. 

In my opinion, the "games are more important" argument is entirely gate driven.  Games are entertainment and bring in money.  I have zero issues with that approach.  However, if you cut that part on and focus solely on development, then weiging heavily on practice and development time is far, far better.  You don't develop much in games, aside from experience.  An 18 year old has tons of time to gain that experience, but a narrow window to develop his/her skills.

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Just now, stawns said:

In my opinion, the "games are more important" argument is entirely gate driven.  Games are entertainment and bring in money.  I have zero issues with that approach.  However, if you cut that part on and focus solely on development, then weiging heavily on practice and development time is far, far better.  You don't develop much in games, aside from experience.  An 18 year old has tons of time to gain that experience, but a narrow window to develop his/her skills.

Think we'll have to agree to disagree here.

 

I get your point to certain degree and also agree that sacrificing practice to play games is not good for development (guess that's one reason why there's more room for practice in the minors?), but even though practicing with pros will definitely help younger players some things you can only really learn when the games matter. 

 

PK, burying your chances when space is tighter, hitting, positioning and reading the play etc etc. It's just not the same at practice.

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1 hour ago, stawns said:

I do think gameplay is, of course import.  It's like the test after your lessons at school.  However, Canadian hockey focuses on gameplay over skill development and practice and I think the way Euros and college programs are over yaking Canadians, that focus on practice/skill development/practice time with fewer games, shows that those elements are as, or more important.  

 

Certainly as a teacher, the lessons I teach are far more important than the exams that test the skills I've taught them

 

 

I really like the teaching illustration as it does provide a fitting example. However, would not the teaching you do be like practice, and games be like an actual worksheet where the students put the knowledge to use? Head knowledge is only valuable if it can be instituted in a real world way. To me, you can practice as much as you want, but if you can't integrate it into a game, it's useless.

 

99% of NHL players can do a Michigan in practice, or go bar down over and over again from the face-off circle. How many can do it in game consistently? It's just a completely different environment in game, and the only way you get that experience is by playing and putting the acquired skills to use in different ways, much like solving more difficult problems after learning the basic principles.

 

Now for younger players who need to improve skills, practice is extremely valuable, don't get me wrong. But the best players in the world are the ones who are able to integrate into a game, and hopefully so during the big "test" of the playoffs.

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It's been discussed now for a few years (playing vs. practice) in the context of post-draft development in junior versus US college.  It would be interesting to see over, say, a 5 year time span, whether top 6 forwards were composed of a majority of College/European players versus Canadian junior graduates. (and conversely, whether bottom 6, usually thought to be less skilled, defensive, bangers and crashers, are drawn mainly from Canadian junior ranks)

 

Similarly with the defensive corps.  What's the make-up there?

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Since development isn't linear I don't think you can say which is more important, game play or practice.  I think you need to have a balance of both and depending on the person, adjust to their learning needs.  

 

Kesler shot 100 pucks a day one summer to improve his shot.  There's no way he'd get that playing.  At the same time, having success with the skill during game play builds confidence for the skill to be utilized.

 

I'd say Klim should go to the AHL.  Full autonomy over his development is the best plan for his development, regardless of playing time/practice time.  

 

 

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58 minutes ago, Petey Castiglione said:

Since development isn't linear I don't think you can say which is more important, game play or practice.  I think you need to have a balance of both and depending on the person, adjust to their learning needs.  

 

Kesler shot 100 pucks a day one summer to improve his shot.  There's no way he'd get that playing.  At the same time, having success with the skill during game play builds confidence for the skill to be utilized.

 

I'd say Klim should go to the AHL.  Full autonomy over his development is the best plan for his development, regardless of playing time/practice time.  

 

 

How much practice time will Abbottsford players get? Every game is a significant road trip. Not sure where the Seattle team put their AHL team tho?  It certainly won't be like the Comets who had a much easier travel sched. 

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1 hour ago, Sp3nny said:

I really like the teaching illustration as it does provide a fitting example. However, would not the teaching you do be like practice, and games be like an actual worksheet where the students put the knowledge to use? Head knowledge is only valuable if it can be instituted in a real world way. To me, you can practice as much as you want, but if you can't integrate it into a game, it's useless.

 

99% of NHL players can do a Michigan in practice, or go bar down over and over again from the face-off circle. How many can do it in game consistently? It's just a completely different environment in game, and the only way you get that experience is by playing and putting the acquired skills to use in different ways, much like solving more difficult problems after learning the basic principles.

 

Now for younger players who need to improve skills, practice is extremely valuable, don't get me wrong. But the best players in the world are the ones who are able to integrate into a game, and hopefully so during the big "test" of the playoffs.

I'm not discounting the value of games and putting the skills you develop into practice.  I'm saying that for an 18 year old kid, coming to NA, more practice/development/workout time in Abby is far better for him than playing a game heavy schedule in the Q.  

 

Don't get me started on the K, where they'll have almost no control of his development at all

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5 hours ago, HighOnHockey said:

Come on dude. Step your game up. At least AlfLives makes me laugh with his trolling. You are not amusing at all.

So who is trolling who. As soon as Stawns offered a logical way forward with Danny's development instead of coming up with some rebuttal, you throw out the trolling BS.

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"We want to have control of his development"

 

With that said (by you know who) then might we not expect DK and his Dad in Abby. and Van. soon?

Complications of the Q and the K beg for a lack of control.

All the difficulties can be worked out with the help of the org. and it's staff here in these parts. 

 

The Canucks now settled in the lower mainland will surely provide everything necessary 

to support and assist more of Danili's family if they choose to join us here in this area where we can welcome them into our fold.

 

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43 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

How much practice time will Abbottsford players get? Every game is a significant road trip. Not sure where the Seattle team put their AHL team tho?  It certainly won't be like the Comets who had a much easier travel sched. 

He probably wouldn't go on all the trips 

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38 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

How much practice time will Abbottsford players get? Every game is a significant road trip. Not sure where the Seattle team put their AHL team tho?  It certainly won't be like the Comets who had a much easier travel sched. 

Seattle's farm team will play in Palm Springs, California  (Yeay!!!), but not until the 2022 -23 season.  This winter they will share with Florida in Charlotte, N Carolina. 

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