Ray_Cathode Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 7 minutes ago, Fred65 said: I think a lot of the, shall we say, younger culture were raised wiith the expectations of a participation medal, every one gets one. The kum ba yah era Yep, they are the children who have been raised under the theory that self-esteem is something you get from other people praising you. It is not. Self-esteem has two aspects: your efficacy at the task of living, and your worthiness of living - neither of which can be given, they must be earned. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred65 Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 9 minutes ago, tas said: fans’ expectations are not only irrelevant to players, they are also based solely on a sense of entitlement to entertainment and winning. fans being critical of the team has only negative results because that isn't their role. they aren't there to be evaluators or teachers, their sole purpose is to support the team. you can go ahead and live your life as a compassionless, robotic, pseudo-intellectual sociopath, but I'll go ahead and carry on with empathy. If you wish to be good parent, coach, scout what ever, you need to be a teacher and a mentor, if you haven't reached that status yet, don't worry all will become apprent when you do. To be honest the detrioration in our society is likely due to parents that obfuscate their reponsibilities. Unless you've seen how earlier societies lived don't try and judge on the current era. How many times do you hear commentaries about kids in trouble that end up with "where are the parents" and you know the answer ... shirking their responsibilities. No one got particapation medals when I was a kid and indeed there were no medals period, you might get a compliment that was it. But now we're asked to cheer for failure .... not me sunshine. Do some thing good and I'll say so do some thing badly I'll say so 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Monahan Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 35 minutes ago, Fred65 said: I think a lot of the, shall we say, younger culture were raised wiith the expectations of a participation medal, every one gets one. The kum ba yah era 20 minutes ago, Ray_Cathode said: Yep, they are the children who have been raised under the theory that self-esteem is something you get from other people praising you. It is not. Self-esteem has two aspects: your efficacy at the task of living, and your worthiness of living - neither of which can be given, they must be earned. Gotta love the millennial/Gen Z bashing. Timeless and always topical. So who raised those generations? 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Luck Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 (edited) 58 minutes ago, tas said: fans sole purpose is to support the team. Nope. It isn't a one way street like you say. Fans are the ones that pay for the team to exist and for the players to become rich. So fans sole purpose is not to support the team. The team needs to also provide good entertainment and winning for the fans who pay for their existence. Fans have EVERY right to critique and complain when their team sucks (I don't think the Canucks suck but they are average at this point). Edited October 22, 2021 by Canuck Luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 4 minutes ago, Canuck Luck said: Nope. It isn't a one way street like you say. Fans are the ones that pay for the team to exist and for the players to become rich. So fans sole purpose is not to support the team. The team needs to also provide good entertainment and winning for the fans who pay for their existence. Fans have EVERY right to critique and complain when their team sucks (I don't think the Canucks suck but they are average at this point). For sure. but true fans don't belittle a club's young hopeful players (the team's future) while promoting other teams' young guys. That's not true fan behaviour. Klim is going to be a fabulous player for us, and better than Guenther. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Luck Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 1 minute ago, Alflives said: For sure. but true fans don't belittle a club's young hopeful players (the team's future) while promoting other teams' young guys. That's not true fan behaviour. Klim is going to be a fabulous player for us, and better than Guenther. I have no idea about Guenther and don't care about him at all since he is not a Canuck. I hope Klimovich turns into a very good player for us though. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank einstein Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 1 hour ago, Ray_Cathode said: I am saying that people deserve the truth in feedback about their performance relative to an objective standard - a standard that one applies to all players, evenly. I am saying that I am going to feed back reality - at least my honest perception of it. If your name is Olli, and you struggle in pivoting to the left, I am going to say he struggles pivoting to the left. If his reads are slow in his own end, I’m going to say it. Neither parents nor coaches do their players any good by prevaricating or obfuscating about a player’s performance. With a child, criticism needs to be appropriate to realistic expectations at their level - if they struggle to pivot left, and if they want to improve (some could care less), then that skill should be broken down for them, instructed in detail and practiced till it is automatized. But telling a child that she meets expectations when she does not, does her no favours - it gives her unrealistic expectations about the world. Cheering stupidity is a good way to get more of it. Cheering mediocrity is a good way to get more of it. NHL players are professionals, they are paid enormous amounts of money, and they expect to be judged. In fact, professionals seek being judged - they want to be honestly recognized for what they do. All through school, I admired and respected those teachers and coaches that expected the most of me - it is truly they who wanted the best for me, for me to do well - to help me meet my own high expectations. Why? Because the pleasure and pride of mastering something is intense, and because the lessons learned in mastering one thing can be transferred to the task of mastering one’s own life. You mean like this? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 2 minutes ago, Canuck Luck said: I have no idea about Guenther and don't care about him at all since he is not a Canuck. I hope Klimovich turns into a very good player for us though. I pretty much hate all the other teams and their players, especially their young ones. The worse those young guys are the better our future success, because we have a lot of great young guys. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred65 Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 Just now, Alflives said: I pretty much hate all the other teams and their players, especially their young ones. The worse those young guys are the better our future success, because we have a lot of great young guys. I can't do that. I look at a good player and have no trouble admiring his skills. And as much as I am a fan of the Canucks I don't like to think our success should be depend on others failure. I know what the kids go through and their dedication. I used to marvel at kids on a team load up in the team coach and the first thing they do is get out their laptop to start on the papers they have due, maybe a 18 hour bus trip ahead of them. It's tough to be a student athlete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred65 Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 33 minutes ago, Sean Monahan said: Gotta love the millennial/Gen Z bashing. Timeless and always topical. So who raised those generations? Man I'm way before either of those ( just looked them up) I was generation WW2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patel Bure Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 1 hour ago, Rick Blight said: Do you really think Timmins is worth a 1st round pick? Colorado traded Timmins, a 1st and 3rd to get a pending UFA goalie in Kuemper. I don't believe Kuemper was worth a 1st and 3rd (conditional) alone so Timmins was really acquired on the cheap. I would not give up our 1st for him. Good point. The thought of moving our 1st + Ferland’s contract for Timmins, etc., had crossed my mind, but it’s possible that I’m overrating Timmins a bit here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewman Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 16 minutes ago, Fred65 said: Man I'm way before either of those ( just looked them up) I was generation WW2 So you're 94? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HomeBrew Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 52 minutes ago, Sean Monahan said: Gotta love the millennial/Gen Z bashing. Timeless and always topical. So who raised those generations? It sounds like a Boomer support group in here. Lol 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 24 minutes ago, Fred65 said: If you wish to be good parent, coach, scout what ever, you need to be a teacher and a mentor, if you haven't reached that status yet, don't worry all will become apprent when you do. To be honest the detrioration in our society is likely due to parents that obfuscate their reponsibilities. Unless you've seen how earlier societies lived don't try and judge on the current era. How many times do you hear commentaries about kids in trouble that end up with "where are the parents" and you know the answer ... shirking their responsibilities. No one got particapation medals when I was a kid and indeed there were no medals period, you might get a compliment that was it. But now we're asked to cheer for failure .... not me sunshine. Do some thing good and I'll say so do some thing badly I'll say so and yet fans on the sidelines don't serve any of those roles, and when parents try doing so from the sidelines, it's the most toxic element of youth sports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 44 minutes ago, Canuck Luck said: Nope. It isn't a one way street like you say. Fans are the ones that pay for the team to exist and for the players to become rich. So fans sole purpose is not to support the team. The team needs to also provide good entertainment and winning for the fans who pay for their existence. Fans have EVERY right to critique and complain when their team sucks (I don't think the Canucks suck but they are average at this point). fans are paying for entertainment, not victory. if you're not entertained, take your dollar elsewhere. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Luck Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 (edited) 9 minutes ago, tas said: fans are paying for entertainment, not victory. if you're not entertained, take your dollar elsewhere. Exactly. And that is what fans do when some teams suk for excessive periods. Some Canadian NHL teams remain strong regardless as it is such a rabid NHL market lol. Edited October 22, 2021 by Canuck Luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 11 minutes ago, Canuck Luck said: Exactly. And that is what fans do when some teams suk for excessive periods. Some Canadian NHL teams remain strong regardless as it is such a rabid NHL market lol. good, so go. nobody cares. just don't piss and moan cluelessly about the team like the meatheads. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Luck Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 (edited) 19 minutes ago, tas said: good, so go. nobody cares. just don't piss and moan cluelessly about the team like the meatheads. Don't cry! Go Klimovich! Have a great game!! Edited October 22, 2021 by Canuck Luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 20 minutes ago, tas said: good, so go. nobody cares. just don't piss and moan cluelessly about the team like the meatheads. Best Meathead: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 2 minutes ago, Canuck Luck said: Don't cry lol. Don’t be a smelly sock. Alf is into the scotch early! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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