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{Discussion} Canucks Trades the last 3 years and next year

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Iron Fist
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I like the The Schmidt/Toffoli/Miller/Highmore/Dickinson/OEL/Garland deals.  But the cost for all this was quite substantial. NO 1st or 2nd in 2020. NO 1st/3rd/4th in 2021. NO 2nd/3rd in 2022. Madden/Gaudette/Lind OUT

 

I wanna make it clear that consider us winners on all these transactions.

 

But like wtf was the point of doing all this. Why now?,  we're still a few years away from being legit contenders.  With Holtby being traded and Dipietro may be being back next year along with Pod making NHL. We only have Jett Woo, Danila Klimovich and next years 1st left in the pipeline for the foreseeable future, 1 or 2 of which might be gone at the deadline next year.

 

I just don't get it. Great trades tho

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OP has a point. Benning boasts about his terrific drafting, but he hasn't acquired a 2nd round pick in ages (if ever?), and moved out more picks then I can comprehend. I'm guessing there is pressure from ownership to make the playoffs again, and I'm guessing management sees our window to win within the next 2-4 years, so prospects aren't valuable during that time? 

 

On the plus side, this last trade we lost a 2nd round pick for players we will actually keep for more then 2 months! Hey-o!

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If we're not waiting then let's not wait for it either. Sign a big fish free agency in landeskog and let's go for it the next 5 years. Trade Schmidt and holtbt for 2 defenders 

Edited by Iron Fist
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Holtby should be traded. Keeping Schmidt would be prudent. 

 

If we can use the Holtby money to bring a second rounder for next year, assuming we retain, while Virtanen will be bought out most likely. Keep in mind, Tony DeAngelo will be available and I could see a team taking a chance on him. We won't as I don't want to alienate our entire team like what happened between Hoffman and Karlsson in Ottawa. I see this iteration of the Canucks as similar to the Senators team of 2016-2017 under Guy Boucher. That group of players had a better chance of any Canadian team in a while of winning a championship. It's a shame it all got torn apart. We need to restock some picks but we don't have the assets to do so. It would be incredibly foolish to trade our first rounder in 2022, so I hope Benning holds onto it. We'll be able to restock later as long as we hold onto what we have and enter the trade deadline of 2022 with a conservative approach. 

 

 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

I think one can make the argument that good drafting can allow you to use some if your picks as currency while still being able to keep pace with the rest of the league. Probably not the route I would have taken myself, considering that for most of Benning's tenure we were right in the middle of a massive core shift, but it's an argument nonetheless.

 

The biggest problem with that strategy is that both the ameture and pro scouting need to be top notch, and while I think our ameture scouting has been quite good, the pro scouting for whatever reason has been kind of atrocious (with a few notable exceptions).

I don't mind them trading the second and third round picks.  Last 15 years we've had two  second rounders (Demko and Hoglander) turn out and no 3rd rounders (maybe Dipietro)turn out which is about average in the league.   

 

Just need clear picture of what it is we're doing 

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27 minutes ago, Bertuzzipunch said:

Why wait till petey is 27 and bo is 30? Why not be good now and we can all stop complaining about how expensive our 4th line is lmao

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Just now, Iron Fist said:

I don't mind them trading the second and third round picks.  Last 15 years we've had two  second rounders (Demko and Hoglander) turn out and no 3rd rounders (maybe Dipietro)turn out which is about average in the league.   

 

Just need clear picture of what it is we're doing 

I think it's still a bit early to count out some of our most recent 2nd and 3rd rd picks. Taking into consideration prospects that have moved on like Lind and Madden, I think quite a few of them project to be NHLers in some capacity over the next few years.

 

As far as what we're doing, I think Benning was brought in with kind of an impossible task (Not trying to take the blame off of him for some of his blunders, just stating an opinion). Remain competitive while rebuilding the entire core. I think that was the clear message from ownership, and in trying to do both at once hurt the odds of accomplishing either.

 

That said, we've somehow managed to build a good young core out of this, so now I think management feels it's time to go for it. We still have some holes, but I suppose management feels they can fill them via trade and free agency.

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The OEL trade is like relying on Moneymart just to make ends meet.  Yeah you got a paycheck but now you owe even more to interest(draft picks, cap space).  If he could've got a 2nd instead of adding one that could be used to move Holtby.  Again, don't like these moves but at the end of the day Ownership had to approve it so it's on them if this club continues to spin its wheels in the mud.  

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1 hour ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

I think one can make the argument that good drafting can allow you to use some if your picks as currency while still being able to keep pace with the rest of the league. Probably not the route I would have taken myself, considering that for most of Benning's tenure we were right in the middle of a massive core shift, but it's an argument nonetheless.

 

The biggest problem with that strategy is that both the ameture and pro scouting need to be top notch, and while I think our ameture scouting has been quite good, the pro scouting for whatever reason has been kind of atrocious (with a few notable exceptions).

Agree.  I think the trades that Benning has made, in isolation, all make sense.  On top of that, I can't think of anything that Benning has given up that has blown up in his face (think Granlund, Vey trades etc).  Benning has stated on numerous occasions that he plans to recoup picks but he never has.  I don't think it's though lack of trying, but because he's never had anything tradeable to get picks (well, that wouldn't create a gaping hole in the roster).  I put this on the pro scouting.department  The Canucks have a frustrating ability to sell low on too many assets.  I'm sure Gaudette and Virtanen could've recouped some picks at some point, but by the time the Canucks were ready to move on from Gaudette he wasn't worth a meaningful pick and Virtanen...does Benning have Bergevin's number?

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2 hours ago, Iron Fist said:

If we're not waiting then let's not wait for it either. Sign a big fish free agency in landeskog and let's go for it the next 5 years. Trade Schmidt and holtbt for 2 defenders 

FA starts in a couple days.

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2 hours ago, Iron Fist said:

If we're not waiting then let's not wait for it either. Sign a big fish free agency in landeskog and let's go for it the next 5 years. Trade Schmidt and holtbt for 2 defenders 

There is a certain amount of free will involved in signing UFAs, no? What is the Plan B if they don't agree to the Canucks friendly contract offered to them?

 

Benning: "Hey Gabe, get in the car."

 

Landeskog: "Nope."

 

 

The great "Trade Schmidt (and Holtby) to Solve the Canucks' Cap Issues" fallacy.

 

Trading Schmidt (and Holtby) could/might get the Canucks a d-man, but there is an assumption here that he would be better than what was being moved out. Why do people make such an assumption, that another team would be willing to trade a "better" player for a guy who is perhaps only as good as the guy you are moving out? Why do you assume that the other team would want to trade a d-man for a d-man? Maybe they want to add to their top-6, not just change who is in the top-5?

 

As a cap dump it frees them up from another team, so the Canucks can get him for "cheap"? Okay, but if the other team can't afford the guy they are trading, why would the Canucks be able to afford him? And why would they be able to/want to afford Schmidt? And what sort of cap is coming in, and what kind of UFA could the Canucks afford with any potential savings which they *might* get in such a trade?

 

Trade Schmidt (and Holtby) to another team for picks/prospects? Sure, but aren't teams that might want to trade for Schmidt (and Holtby) also have cap issues, so they'd be more inclined to want to trade a contract with cap, and/or have the Canucks retain cap? And once again, what sort of cap is coming in, and what kind of UFA could the Canucks afford with any potential savings they *might* get in such a trade?

 

 

Schmidt (and Holtby) both have MNTCs in their contracts which somewhat handcuffs the team as far as destination, so it's probably very unlikely that they want to go to Buffalo.

 

Benning: "Hey Nate, you're going to Buffalo."

 

Schmidt: "Nope."

 

                                                      regards,  G.

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3 hours ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

I think one can make the argument that good drafting can allow you to use some if your picks as currency while still being able to keep pace with the rest of the league. Probably not the route I would have taken myself, considering that for most of Benning's tenure we were right in the middle of a massive core shift, but it's an argument nonetheless.

 

The biggest problem with that strategy is that both the ameture and pro scouting need to be top notch, and while I think our ameture scouting has been quite good, the pro scouting for whatever reason has been kind of atrocious (with a few notable exceptions).

There was that period of time between 2001 and 2004 where Detroit had traded away all 4 of their 1st round picks, plus various a 2nd and two 3rd rounders in that four year span. They also traded their 1st rounders (and other picks) in 2006 and 1007. A number of prospects/younger players were also traded away. Those picks/prospects/players were used to acquire veteran players to supplement the core (which seemed to be ageless, and mostly immune to injury). A number of "over the hill" veterans were also signed. The Wings won a couple of Cups in that era, and were a playoff team/Cup contender for at least a decade. 

 

This strategy was really only made possible by two things: 1.) great scouting/drafting and a willingness to sell the future to support the present; 2.) and of greater importance, the ageless, injury-proof core. 

 

                                                 regards,  G.

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4 hours ago, Jester13 said:

We're a playoff team this upcoming year. Our window is now open. We can restock over the next four years. 

Making the playoffs and being a playoff team are whole different animals, we are nowhere here being a playoff team.

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4 hours ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

I think one can make the argument that good drafting can allow you to use some if your picks as currency while still being able to keep pace with the rest of the league. Probably not the route I would have taken myself, considering that for most of Benning's tenure we were right in the middle of a massive core shift, but it's an argument nonetheless.

 

The biggest problem with that strategy is that both the ameture and pro scouting need to be top notch, and while I think our ameture scouting has been quite good, the pro scouting for whatever reason has been kind of atrocious (with a few notable exceptions).

This is the strategy - the Lightning just won two Cups with rosters filled with 2nd-7th round players who supplemented Hedman + Vasi + Stamkos (our equivalent being EP, Brock and Quinn). The Lightning developed their later round picks then brought them all together and spent their better draft picks on adding depth like Coleman and Goodrow, providing themselves with the deepest team in the league.

 

Benning has used some of those picks to convert bad cap into valuable roster players but you can see what he's going for - Demko-Quinn-Petey-Brock-Bo, complemented by players like Podz, Hogz and Rathbone then loading up with Dickinson, OEL and Garland.

 

I can easily see Jim looking to use more picks to add to our depth, but it's clear that this roster is significantly improved on last season and with the right coaching, playoffs should be a given. From there anyone can go deep - just look at us in 2020 and the Habs this year.

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just by looking at the trades without knowing which team made them you would have thought these were trades made by a stanley cup contenders.. but in reality we are just a fringe team hoping to sneak into the playoff. i'm not against the trades as it makes the team some what more competitive.. but you question the management's agenda coming out saying we are rebuilding but throwing away top picks and prospect like they are nothing.. with the lack of actual draft prospects on the team now.. what are we going to trade when we are actually competiting and teams asking for say a pick a a or b prospect and a player for maybe something that'll put u over the top?? we don't really have much if any good prospects left on the team that other teams would be targetting when dealing with the canucks?

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