Will Jim B's give-aways of 23 draft picks under his rule come back to haunt the Canucks ?

[Dazzle]

29 minutes ago, joe-max said:

How about some more entertaining giveaways:

 

There's really a lot of that happening in the game. The skill level is insane and the amount of time to make decisions is so little, in actuality.

 

I think a special mention should go to Stamkos coughing up the puck in the D zone for Boeser to score on.

[The Lock]

1 hour ago, RU SERIOUS said:

It's the Donnie & Dhalli show - what did you expect ! (LOL)

I at least expect non-propangandized talk that can take more than 1 stat into account.

 

Sounds like they can't even do that though. lol

[fanfor42]

Per cap friendly he has traded away 27 but received back 22. So not that lopsided.

 

Picks coming back included Kelser 1st and 3rd, Garrison 2nd, Bieksa 2nd, torts 2nd etc. So some decently high picks came back .

 

So the reporting by Dhalliwal was intentionally skewed negative for effect.

 

 

[CanadianRugby]

26 minutes ago, fanfor42 said:

Per cap friendly he has traded away 27 but received back 22. So not that lopsided.

I think you have to look at it through the context that this was one of the worst teams in the league.  You don't rebuild by trading your picks away. 

[Nuxfanabroad]

Why don't these media ar**holes do something useful? For example, inform us HOW MANY teams have actually selected more NHL'ers than JB, since 2014?

 

Despite utilizing only 54 total picks, I bet there'll be around 20 players who play at least 100 games in the show. It's basically been his saving grace.

 

Wouldn't surprise me if he's in the top-5 teams over that period. THEN factor in the top-end talent he's pilfered within that group of 20(ish) players.

In the end, it's a pretty silly thing to gripe about.

[DrJockitch]

1 minute ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

Why don't these media ar**holes do something useful? For example, inform us HOW MANY teams have actually selected more NHL'ers than JB, since 2014?

 

Despite utilizing only 54 total picks, I bet there'll be around 20 players who play at least 100 games in the show. It's basically been his saving grace.

 

Wouldn't surprise me if he's in the top-5 teams over that period. THEN factor in the top-end talent he's pilfered within that group of 20(ish) players.

In the end, it's a pretty silly thing to gripe about.

Imagine what it would be like if he played to his strengths instead of kneecapping himself over and over. 

[CanadianRugby]

1 minute ago, DrJockitch said:

Imagine what it would be like if he played to his strengths instead of kneecapping himself over and over. 

Imagine still having a deep prospect pool due to all those picks instead of selling your future and cap flexibility just to ice a competitive lineup. 

[alt kilgore]

45 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

He's still at a deficit.

 

Time will tell if it'll cost us.

 

We have very little left in terms of draft picks and prospects (especially once Podkolzin graduates). After the ARI trade, the window has been opened.

 

If this core doesn't have it, we're in for another rebuild quite soon.

 

Too much truth for many on here.

 

To be in a deficit of even your allotted picks, throughout a 7 year term, from a GM of a team mostly languishing at the bottom of the standings is unacceptable as far as prospects coming to fill the second wave.  Especially disturbing coming from a GM marketed to the fans as a build through the draft guru.  

 

People criticize Gillis for not stocking the cupboards with new blood.  He at least had an excuse. We almost made it to top with him.  Benning has traded away two firsts, and multiple seconds during his time, while maxing out the cap, for a perennial underacheiving team.  Even when we finally make the playoffs last season, after the 2015 exit with the Gillis core, none of those latest core players could be retained because of past blunders, so that run becomes a blip. Now we take a loss on Holtby.  Really? Not even a seventh rounder?  I think JB has grown a soft reputation with other GMs. Now that Braden's bought out, one of them will snap him up.

 

Its the cut of a thousand blunders. Its about losing value, even if its one drop at a time.  Value interpreted in different ways.  Terrible pro scouting on the effectiveness of incoming vets. Overpayment on contracts. (giving Pearson an above market value contract during a flat cap, according to hockey experts, as an example) Over extended contracts. (Beagle, Sutter and Rousell, you can add Gagner, and LE) Losing value for nothing..(Madden and a second).  Running out of time.  No communication with those waiting to sign, for him to do his one thing at a time, "day to day" management style. One or two blunders is acceptable, but when its one or two blunders every season, it adds up and becomes a millstone the hampers the future success of the team.  That is what I'm pissed about. I want the Cup here!

 

I have no idea how JB is still here, and why he gets such a vote of confidence on this board.  I still WANT him to succeed, as its my home team on the line, but I just do not have a lot of confidence that his decision making won't need a good dose of lady luck as well. Which is fine. I accept that.  But I expect the Benning Booster Club to let me know I'm being too mean to him in 3....2....1.....

 

They do know one day Benning WILL be let go too right?  No GM lasts for decades. When the Aquilini's get over their guilt for being a part of Jim's bad decisions,  which now I see must be the only reason he's not been gone yet.  If these were totally hands-off owners, and their GM hire had still had this kind of management outcomes, I doubt he'd be here.  When that finally happens,  we'll see a whole lot of those in the booster club jumping ship, just like they did with Gillis. 

 

But hey, Go Jim Go!  Maybe it will all work out. I really hope it does.  OEL does revert to his prime production years.  Podz is an instant success. All his new signings live up or surpass expectations. (As you point out, they pretty much have to!) Heck, maybe even his Joulevi pick proves himself finally.  And that can he's kicking down the road will sort itself out, somehow some way.  As another big self promoter said about the virus "Like a miracle it will just disappear".   I hope all of that comes true.  Miracles can happen. I must go now to pray to the Hockey Gods.

 

 

[ken kaniff]

Bennings entire tenure as GM will come to haunt the Canucks because he’s been awful. Aside from Trump, I don’t remember a time when someone been so overwhelmingly incompetent at their job and somehow people still support him. Truly baffling.

[ilduce39]

I think he’s done a good job bringing in young talent via the draft.  The pieces he’s moved out have stung but it’s still a nice collection of drafted talent.  When was the last time we had so many home grown players - especially star power - on the roster?  Petey, Hughes, Boeser, Demko, Hoglander, Podkolzin, Rathbone, Juolevi, DiPietro.. (Bo as well as a Gilly pick)
 

That said, we’re definitely missing a blue chipper or two in the pipeline to either replace upcoming UFA’s who ask for too much or to be dangled as trade bait at the deadline.  It’s a young, dynamic NHL squad but not a lot of reinforcements if things go sideways.
 

That said, if a guy like Klimovich hits, Gadjovich gains some foot speed, Woo takes another step or Jurmo bounces back in Liiga the cupboards could look better… and one good draft could change a lot.  As a side bet, our next draft is rather critical to the long term success of this group. 

Edited July 27, 2021 by ilduce39

[brownky]

We should have a list of people who aren't allowed to hop on the bandwagon when the team starts winning 'in spite' of OMG MUH CAP SPACE.

 

Like Sorry Bruh, bandwagon's full. Seattle is down south if you want to whine about a team that sucks.

[alt kilgore]

8 minutes ago, brownky said:

We should have a list of people who aren't allowed to hop on the bandwagon when the team starts winning 'in spite' of OMG MUH CAP SPACE.

 

Like Sorry Bruh, bandwagon's full. Seattle is down south if you want to whine about a team that sucks.

If you mean those wiling to have a critical opinion, we never left the bandwagon Bruh. Despite the horses getting hobbled. The hay getting stale. The wheels almost coming off.  Not everyone on the wagon is required to sit up front, with blue/green glasses on, just happy our wagon isn't the last wagon in the race.

[Ghostsof1915]

2 hours ago, AV. said:

Dhaliwal is not a troll lol.

 

Be serious.

He certainly has been less reliable since he left News1130. 

[theo5789]

Benning has made 54 draft picks out of a full allotment of 56 picks over his tenure as GM of the Canucks. So clearly we added back nearly as many picks as we had "given up".

 

Reality is not all draft picks work out and only a small percentage each year become successful NHLers. Not sure if having an abundance more really makes a difference other than increasing your odds of finding players. Considering out hit% with our picks though, I think we are doing just fine even without the extra picks (which could just simply be knocking that hit% down).

[brownky]

8 minutes ago, kilgore said:

If you mean those wiling to have a critical opinion, we never left the bandwagon Bruh. Despite the horses getting hobbled. The hay getting stale. The wheels almost coming off.  Not everyone on the wagon is required to sit up front, with blue/green glasses on, just happy our wagon isn't the last wagon in the race.

Critical Opinion /=/ Disagree with everything one does, all the time.

 

That's just being contrarian. Worse are the ones who 'hope' for failure just to prove 'themselves' some sort of internet big brain. There are enough on this board to almost think we're HFboards, although nobody will top that level of uninformed arrogance.

 

That's more where I'm going.

 

Particularly the ones condemning the OEL trade before the guy has even suited up in a jersey, much less practice or a game. Or the ones who did the full chicken little over trading the pick for Miller.

 

 

I'm curious who the negatives' "100% foresight" (We knew he was trash!) whipping boy will be this year now that Roussel, Beagle, Virtanen, Sutter and Holtby are all out the door.

[Alflives]

50 minutes ago, CanadianRugby said:

I think you have to look at it through the context that this was one of the worst teams in the league.  You don't rebuild by trading your picks away. 

Why not if the return is better than the pick?  Miller was a steal for 20OA.  And OEL and Garland (plus the three cap dumps) cost us Dillon friggin’ Geunther.  Huge bustaroo potential with that guy.  Superjob by Benning!  We are to two in our division, and going on a playoff run.  Oh, and don’t forget we got a fabulous player at 41 in Klimovich, who is better than Geunther.  

Welcome to five - seven years of serious winning!  

[RWMc1]

10 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

Benning has made 54 draft picks out of a full allotment of 56 picks over his tenure as GM of the Canucks. So clearly we added back nearly as many picks as we had "given up".

 

Reality is not all draft picks work out and only a small percentage each year become successful NHLers. Not sure if having an abundance more really makes a difference other than increasing your odds of finding players. Considering out hit% with our picks though, I think we are doing just fine even without the extra picks (which could just simply be knocking that hit% down).

So, you're saying that other teams just gave us 21 picks? That was very generous of them.

[Dazzle]

29 minutes ago, RWMc1 said:

So, you're saying that other teams just gave us 21 picks? That was very generous of them.

Or as we can spin this story - Benning is a master of extracting maximum value out of the poor remnants of Gillis' regime, including a disgruntled Kesler, a middling roster player in Bonino, and an overpaid Garrison.

[Forsy]

Benning "gave away" 27 draft picks, but teams "gave away" 13 draft picks back to us. And then Benning convinced other teams to give us another "free" 8 draft picks. So we gave an extra 6 picks away over 7 years.

Quantitatively, the count is 27 vs 21 (-6) total over this entire Canucks stint (including the time when Linden was president). The previous season until today (i.e. 2020-2021 season) was a -4 for draft picks (gave 6, took back 2). So before this year, the Canucks had been a 2 draft pick loss over Benning's reign.

Qualitatively, the total count is:
1x lost 1st
3x lost 2nd
3x lost 3rd
3x lost 4th
1x gained 5th
2x gained 6th
1x gained 7th

1st	-2	+1	0	-1
2nd	-6	+1	+2	-3
3rd	-6	+2	+1	-3
4th	-5	+1	+1	-3
5th	-2	+3	0	1
6th	-3	+4	+1	2
7th	-3	+1	+3	1
Total	-27	+13	+8	-6

This 2020-2021 season, we lost 1x 1st, 1x 2nd, 2x 3rd, 1x 4th, 1x 7th gained 1x 5th, 1x 6th.
So before this season the total count was:
0x lost 1st
2x lost 2nd
1x lost 3rd
2x lost 4th
0x gained 5th
1x gained 6th
2x gained 7th

1st -1 +1 0 0 2nd -5 +1 +2 -2 3rd -4 +2 +1 -1 4th -4 +1 +1 -2 5th -2 +2 0 0 6th -3 +4 0 +1 7th -2 +1 +3 +2 Total -21 +12 +7 -2

Edited July 27, 2021 by Forsy

[Forsy]

2 hours ago, Bure_Pavel said:

For having a front office that's greatest strength is drafting we probably shipped out too many 2nd rounders, but no need to live in the past. Especially seeing picks like Demko and Hoglander in the second. I feel like the end of the first and beginning of the second rounds are when good scouting is like gold.    

Agreed, but part of that scouting skill will be to recognize when you're not going to be able to pick up people on the 2nd/3rd round drafts and to trade them out for assets. Nobody's perfect, and nobody can know everything there is about all the picks still remaining by 2nd round, but it's never clear cut. I'm sure they've made some oopsies trading away 2nd draft picks when they shouldn't have, but some amazing finds as well.