Will Jim B's give-aways of 23 draft picks under his rule come back to haunt the Canucks ?

[CanadianRugby]

3 hours ago, kanucks25 said:

He's still at a deficit.

 

Time will tell if it'll cost us.

 

We have very little left in terms of draft picks and prospects (especially once Podkolzin graduates). After the ARI trade, the window has been opened.

 

If this core doesn't have it, we're in for another rebuild quite soon.

I disagree.  If the Canucks don't become a legit top tier team for the next couple years, they'll continue to "go for it" regardless of results. 

 

Ownership just went through an 8 year rebuild.  They'd rather beat a dead horse than go through another one. 

[ChuckNORRIS4Cup]

2 hours ago, kilgore said:

 

Too much truth for many on here.

 

To be in a deficit of even your allotted picks, throughout a 7 year term, from a GM of a team mostly languishing at the bottom of the standings is unacceptable as far as prospects coming to fill the second wave.  Especially disturbing coming from a GM marketed to the fans as a build through the draft guru.  

 

People criticize Gillis for not stocking the cupboards with new blood.  He at least had an excuse. We almost made it to top with him.  Benning has traded away two firsts, and multiple seconds during his time, while maxing out the cap, for a perennial underacheiving team.  Even when we finally make the playoffs last season, after the 2015 exit with the Gillis core, none of those latest core players could be retained because of past blunders, so that run becomes a blip. Now we take a loss on Holtby.  Really? Not even a seventh rounder?  I think JB has grown a soft reputation with other GMs. Now that Braden's bought out, one of them will snap him up.

 

Its the cut of a thousand blunders. Its about losing value, even if its one drop at a time.  Value interpreted in different ways.  Terrible pro scouting on the effectiveness of incoming vets. Overpayment on contracts. (giving Pearson an above market value contract during a flat cap, according to hockey experts, as an example) Over extended contracts. (Beagle, Sutter and Rousell, you can add Gagner, and LE) Losing value for nothing..(Madden and a second).  Running out of time.  No communication with those waiting to sign, for him to do his one thing at a time, "day to day" management style. One or two blunders is acceptable, but when its one or two blunders every season, it adds up and becomes a millstone the hampers the future success of the team.  That is what I'm pissed about. I want the Cup here!

 

I have no idea how JB is still here, and why he gets such a vote of confidence on this board.  I still WANT him to succeed, as its my home team on the line, but I just do not have a lot of confidence that his decision making won't need a good dose of lady luck as well. Which is fine. I accept that.  But I expect the Benning Booster Club to let me know I'm being too mean to him in 3....2....1.....

 

They do know one day Benning WILL be let go too right?  No GM lasts for decades. When the Aquilini's get over their guilt for being a part of Jim's bad decisions,  which now I see must be the only reason he's not been gone yet.  If these were totally hands-off owners, and their GM hire had still had this kind of management outcomes, I doubt he'd be here.  When that finally happens,  we'll see a whole lot of those in the booster club jumping ship, just like they did with Gillis. 

 

But hey, Go Jim Go!  Maybe it will all work out. I really hope it does.  OEL does revert to his prime production years.  Podz is an instant success. All his new signings live up or surpass expectations. (As you point out, they pretty much have to!) Heck, maybe even his Joulevi pick proves himself finally.  And that can he's kicking down the road will sort itself out, somehow some way.  As another big self promoter said about the virus "Like a miracle it will just disappear".   I hope all of that comes true.  Miracles can happen. I must go now to pray to the Hockey Gods.

 

 

Nailed it!

[Hairy Kneel]

1 hour ago, kilgore said:

 

Too much truth for many on here.

 

To be in a deficit of even your allotted picks, throughout a 7 year term, from a GM of a team mostly languishing at the bottom of the standings is unacceptable as far as prospects coming to fill the second wave.  Especially disturbing coming from a GM marketed to the fans as a build through the draft guru.  

 

People criticize Gillis for not stocking the cupboards with new blood.  He at least had an excuse. We almost made it to top with him.  Benning has traded away two firsts, and multiple seconds during his time, while maxing out the cap, for a perennial underacheiving team.  Even when we finally make the playoffs last season, after the 2015 exit with the Gillis core, none of those latest core players could be retained because of past blunders, so that run becomes a blip. Now we take a loss on Holtby.  Really? Not even a seventh rounder?  I think JB has grown a soft reputation with other GMs. Now that Braden's bought out, one of them will snap him up.

 

Its the cut of a thousand blunders. Its about losing value, even if its one drop at a time.  Value interpreted in different ways.  Terrible pro scouting on the effectiveness of incoming vets. Overpayment on contracts. (giving Pearson an above market value contract during a flat cap, according to hockey experts, as an example) Over extended contracts. (Beagle, Sutter and Rousell, you can add Gagner, and LE) Losing value for nothing..(Madden and a second).  Running out of time.  No communication with those waiting to sign, for him to do his one thing at a time, "day to day" management style. One or two blunders is acceptable, but when its one or two blunders every season, it adds up and becomes a millstone the hampers the future success of the team.  That is what I'm pissed about. I want the Cup here!

 

I have no idea how JB is still here, and why he gets such a vote of confidence on this board.  I still WANT him to succeed, as its my home team on the line, but I just do not have a lot of confidence that his decision making won't need a good dose of lady luck as well. Which is fine. I accept that.  But I expect the Benning Booster Club to let me know I'm being too mean to him in 3....2....1.....

 

They do know one day Benning WILL be let go too right?  No GM lasts for decades. When the Aquilini's get over their guilt for being a part of Jim's bad decisions,  which now I see must be the only reason he's not been gone yet.  If these were totally hands-off owners, and their GM hire had still had this kind of management outcomes, I doubt he'd be here.  When that finally happens,  we'll see a whole lot of those in the booster club jumping ship, just like they did with Gillis. 

 

But hey, Go Jim Go!  Maybe it will all work out. I really hope it does.  OEL does revert to his prime production years.  Podz is an instant success. All his new signings live up or surpass expectations. (As you point out, they pretty much have to!) Heck, maybe even his Joulevi pick proves himself finally.  And that can he's kicking down the road will sort itself out, somehow some way.  As another big self promoter said about the virus "Like a miracle it will just disappear".   I hope all of that comes true.  Miracles can happen. I must go now to pray to the Hockey Gods.

 

 

There is one fact that I would like clarified: who's idea was it to sign aging Sedin's to 4 year 7M dollar contract at the end of their career. And decide to try to artificially try to build a playoff team around them? Was this solely only on Benning? If so, then I'd have to agree with you. 

We spent important draft picks "to give them one last kick at cup". And signed UFA's and traded for vets. Chasing the glory of 2011. We killed our rebuild those last 2 or 3 years with the Sedin's. If all of this was truly only on Benning, the wasted draft picks, and the trades and signings. Then I would agree with you. If this was AQ and Linden's idea in anyway, then then some of those lost picks don't count. 

There are many ways to look at JB tenure here but I believe they he was handcuffed for the early part of it. 

But if your agenda is to just cut down JB you can't just generalize 27-22 picks. 

[Timråfan]

4 hours ago, Top Sven Baercheese said:

Bennings strategy: be praised for your drafting ability for selecting Hughes, Boeser, and Pettersson... then trade every other pick you have so people can't say anything different. 

Well, we know now why we got rid of Brackett. No need for a scouting expert in a fair few years.

[kanucks25]

1 hour ago, brownky said:

Critical Opinion /=/ Disagree with everything one does, all the time.

Where did he say he disagreed with everyone Benning has done?

 

1 hour ago, Dazzle said:

Or as we can spin this story - Benning is a master of extracting maximum value out of the poor remnants of Gillis' regime, including a disgruntled Kesler, a middling roster player in Bonino, and an overpaid Garrison.

Benning traded Kesler for Bonino...

[khay]

Who did the teams draft with those picks? Anyone significant?

 

I guess 2020, 2021 draft picks are too soon to say but I haven't heard too much about a player picked with Vancouver pick that has gone on to set the world on fire just yet.

 

 

 

[Devron]

So we got a pick back? Where does this awesome thread go now?

[iceman64]

7 hours ago, RU SERIOUS said:

While watching Donnie & Dhali yesterday, it was mentioned that Jim B has apparently given away 23 draft picks so far under his reign.   The question now becomes; Can the Canucks build up a strong enough organization to win a cup with this approach or, will the short term rewards gained by trading away all these draft picks leave us short and in an eternal "sloppy-second place" type finishes and ongoing retooling/rebuilding due to always being short a few assets in the cupboard?

This is Vancouver remember?

[Forsy]

1 hour ago, khay said:

Who did the teams draft with those picks? Anyone significant?

 

I guess 2020, 2021 draft picks are too soon to say but I haven't heard too much about a player picked with Vancouver pick that has gone on to set the world on fire just yet.

 

 

 

wrote it on page 3

[Googlie]

No - he can invite all the players drafted with those picks to line Robson Street for the cup parade in a couple of years

[alt kilgore]

4 hours ago, Hairy Kneel said:

There is one fact that I would like clarified: who's idea was it to sign aging Sedin's to 4 year 7M dollar contract at the end of their career. And decide to try to artificially try to build a playoff team around them? Was this solely only on Benning? If so, then I'd have to agree with you. 

We spent important draft picks "to give them one last kick at cup". And signed UFA's and traded for vets. Chasing the glory of 2011. We killed our rebuild those last 2 or 3 years with the Sedin's. If all of this was truly only on Benning, the wasted draft picks, and the trades and signings. Then I would agree with you. If this was AQ and Linden's idea in anyway, then then some of those lost picks don't count. 

There are many ways to look at JB tenure here but I believe they he was handcuffed for the early part of it. 

But if your agenda is to just cut down JB you can't just generalize 27-22 picks. 

No, that is a good point.

That re-signing was on Gillis. Just before Linden was President.  I can only surmise that Aquilini may have already had an ear for Linden, who was hired the day after Gillis was fired, who may have encouraged him to encourage Mike to offer that extension. Mike knew which side his slice was buttered on. A bit of Canuck Luck involved, as their contracts expired only two years after making it to the SCF.  I sure hadn't given up on them. But I'm not a GM who sometimes has to make hard decisions.  I do think that decision was mostly on the Aquamen. And with freshly signed twins, I can sympathize with JB not eager to try and trade them right away. And they were sooooooooo nice.  No one wanted to see the brothers cry.

 

I do think though, that after 2 more seasons, it was a pivot point when the decision was made to sign LE.  I think that signing was doomed from the start.  Even if LE played okay. The twins were still on the decline. That was all Jim. He'd watched the Sedins slow down, along with other members of the old core. But it was LE. Then Gagner, then Gudbranson. Other signings. I don't know how much of that was on the just-win-now Aquamen though.  But still, its JB's name on the line. It was still up to him to go along....or leave.  It was a tough position. But I still say that the buck stops at the GMs desk, no matter what the owners want.

 

My heart would say the twins deserved the LE gamble, but a GM has to think with more than that. He has to be prepared to be hated by fans.  Wally Buono understood that and knew when to fold a hand and try working on the next deal.

 

 

 

[Patel Bure]

11 hours ago, Patel Bure said:

Dhaliwal = troll.

 

While the Canucks have given up a high

Number of picks, they don’t seem to talk about the fact that many of our picks and prospects in our developmental system successfully transitioned into our system.

 

Demko, Pettersson, Boeser, Horvat, Hoglander, Podkolzin (this coming year), Rathbone, Juolevi, and MacEwen.  Even guys like Virtanen and Tryamkin who are no longer here made the team.  Markstrom was developed in the AHL the correct way as well.

I mean, lets look at our team as far as picks go shall we?

 

Miller-Pettersson-Boeser   (Miller came from our 2020 1st)

Garland-Horvat-Podkolzin (Garland came from our 2021 1st)

Pearson-Dickinson-Hoglander (Dickinson came from a 3rd rounder / Pearson was a derivative of McCann (1st), 2nd, and 4th).

Motte-Sutter-Highmore (Motte came from a 3rd round pick)

 

MacEwen

 

Hughes-Hamonic

OEL-Myers

Rathbone-Juolevi

 

Demko

???

 

The departed:

-Virtanen

-Gaudette

-Tryamkin

 

On his way:

-Dipietro

 

So, with respect to Dhaliwal, and other HF guys that say that we 'bleed picks' and don't draft and develop well, I highly suggest that you look at the above post.

 

 

 

[Patel Bure]

7 hours ago, kanucks25 said:

Where did he say he disagreed with everyone Benning has done?

 

Benning traded Kesler for Bonino...

The flip side of keeping Kesler is that it would have lead to a potential toxic and uncomfortable situation in the locker room much like what we saw with Luongo/Schneider (which arguably helped contribute to the demise of the Gillis era Canucks post 2012).   Kesler basically held a gun to Benning's head and said Anaheim or Chicago, nowhere else and so Benning's options were severely limited here.   

 

When other GM's know that you are dealing from a position of weakness, they call the shots.  It's an unfortunate reality, but it is reality.

 

So - that right there should put to rest any "cream dreams" that you may have been having about Shea Theodore at the time.

[Guest]

11 hours ago, Kootenay Gold said:

Obviously you are not serious. 2014 to 2021. Eight years of draft picks at seven rounds per year = 56 picks. Actual number of picks made by JB = 54. Hmmmm.....far cry from 23.

Sooooo  that means that Jim has traded away 2 picks more then he's acquired over the 7 years.  

[Guest]

10 hours ago, kilgore said:

 

To be in a deficit of even your allotted picks, throughout a 7 year term, from a GM of a team mostly languishing at the bottom of the standings is unacceptable as far as prospects coming to fill the second wave.  Especially disturbing coming from a GM marketed to the fans as a build through the draft guru.  

 

I can't argue with that point.  Don't like how click-baity this post is and also Donnie and Dhali should be using their head more instead of proclaiming that Benning has traded away 23 picks without mentioning the picks coming back.  

 

If they really cared to make an anti-Benning point and do it well, they could've looked at the quality of draft picks coming in and going out to make their point.  Being at a trade deficit of 2 picks over 7 years is really not a big deal (although through a rebuild they should've been at a much higher surplus), but I recall a lot of high round picks going out the door and usually lower round picks coming back in (haven't done research on this though). 

[Heretic]

He got another one back!

 

Canucks Acquire Third-Round Pick in 2022 from Winnipeg Jets... in exchange for Nate Schmidt

[JM_]

15 hours ago, kanucks25 said:

 

 

Benning traded Kesler for Bonino...

pretty good deal considering he was given two teams 

[Me_]

19 hours ago, kanucks25 said:

Where did he say he disagreed with everyone Benning has done?

 

Benning traded Kesler for Bonino...

Dude, this is the time when you get on the bandwagon. 
 

Excellent management by the Benning team this off season.

 

If you can’t be happy about it or can’t even see the work he's done, then stay on the sidelines with your bull crap.

 

7 effin’ years ago bud. 
 

lay off a while.

 

Edited July 28, 2021 by Me_

[Oregon.Duck]

Go tell me who was drafted, what they accomplished, compared to whom we received. Seems like a decent analysis to do before jumping to conclusions.  

[kanucks25]

3 hours ago, Me_ said:

Dude, this is the time when you get on the bandwagon. 
 

Excellent management by the Benning team this off season.

 

If you can’t be happy about it or can’t even see the work he's done, then stay on the sidelines with your bull crap.

 

7 effin’ years ago bud. 
 

lay off a while.

 

 

8 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

pretty good deal considering he was given two teams 

Both missed the point of the post... he was suggesting Bonino was brought in by Gillis lol.

Edited July 28, 2021 by kanucks25