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Will Jim B's give-aways of 23 draft picks under his rule come back to haunt the Canucks ?

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Didn't read the threads; but JB & company has figured out that the 5th to 7th rounds are where legends are created and will continue to trade overhyped lottery tickets to clean up past mistakes and bypass the traditional approach of player development. 

 

Kidding aside (?), Trades & FA is the owners' preferred method of roster building - so the fans, better get used to reading about (hyped up) late round gems; and hoping JB continues his draft mojo.  Overall, I dont really blame this approach (for now) cause JB has drafted a young core and he (also) wants to be competitive with this young core rather than trading them away for futures to make a run with the next young core due to some set internal time line being employed/followed.  It is an exciting time to be a Canuck fan right now; although, I don't really like the Canucks trading finite picks for the present cause it voids the team of cheap & talented depth to compensate for the high salaried players - but I do get the logic of competing with this young core.  It seems like a familiar version of the Gillis era - but JB has the added ability to hit on draft picks (even in the late rounds).

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3 hours ago, Patel Bure said:

Any fan should study the Tampa Bay from 2004-2021 to truly understand what rebuilding truly entails.  Tampa is living proof that progression isn’t always a linear process and that ups and downs with personnel changes are to be expected.  
 

Colorado from 2007 onwards is also a strong case study.

Yeah, been diving into both teams progression (mainly, for the purpose of my interest in comparing Sakic & Yzerman to each other & there peers).  In JBs' case, there has been alot of anxious & disappointing moments during his tenure (especially, in the offseasons) but it has also been interesting to see him evolve - hopefully, he wins with his core.  I do really enjoy the roster tweakings (from a fans' POV) but I would rather see them continue to improve the staff, scouts and etc moving forward cause having a (winning) system in place will mostly likely overcome any future personnel loses in key position(s) or in the roster.

 

Tampa has been winning cause they do alot of work in the back ground and they spend money to improve there leadership group & support staff - so far, the transition from Yzerman to Brisebois has worked out.  Imo, player acquisition is just a small part of the equation to winning a cup; and this offseason, it seems was a blessing for the Canucks cause they seemed to had used it to identify were they needed changes & improvements.  The roster moves during this offseason seems to indicate an owner, management group and staff that is working together - GCG !

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27 minutes ago, Bure2Win said:

Donnie's becoming too much of a pessimist for me, and i thought i was bad?

More like he's just treading water until he retires. He honestly looks bored and dejected. In fact the only time I see the glimpses of Donny of the past. Is when they will let him do 

quickie highlight packages. Then he's still got it, and seems to at least enjoy it. I wish Sportsnet would hire him back as a local guy, doing a regional hightlight packages. 

Rick is just meh. The way he sucks up to guests is just awful. He's also just spews drama. He was better on twitter. 

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22 hours ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

More like he's just treading water until he retires. He honestly looks bored and dejected. In fact the only time I see the glimpses of Donny of the past. Is when they will let him do 

quickie highlight packages. Then he's still got it, and seems to at least enjoy it. I wish Sportsnet would hire him back as a local guy, doing a regional hightlight packages. 

Rick is just meh. The way he sucks up to guests is just awful. He's also just spews drama. He was better on twitter. 

Good assessment and yes, I also think Donnie would do well on a slighly bigger (local) stage.   As for Rick, his strength is picking up details and rumors as he seems to be well connected but does over dramatize things occassionaly.   The other thing is Ryah H.   He comes off as an aggitated, hung-over millenial and needs to compose himself a bit more often than not and calm down (maybe smoke a joint before each broadcast). 

 

But on the whole - the show has brought some badly needed insight into the canucks that 650 AM can't ever seem to deliver with their "made in Toronto" formula.  We need another 1040 type sports radio channel in this city or turf the entire 650 AM crew and bring in some of the experienced local pros that were on 1040 and a few TV Sportscaster we have in this city.

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@Patel Bure and @Alflives  

 

While I agree with most of what you're saying about the Canucks, for me the 1D is still under question.  I love Quinn Hughes but I think we are still missing a true number 1D that can play both ends of the ice well.  

 

Although it's crazy expensive to acquire 1D through trade as we saw in the Seth Jones deal, there will be guys like Colton Parayko becoming available.  

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35 minutes ago, VancouverHabitant said:

@Patel Bure and @Alflives  

 

While I agree with most of what you're saying about the Canucks, for me the 1D is still under question.  I love Quinn Hughes but I think we are still missing a true number 1D that can play both ends of the ice well.  

 

Although it's crazy expensive to acquire 1D through trade as we saw in the Seth Jones deal, there will be guys like Colton Parayko becoming available.  

Don't get me wrong VH, you and I are in full agreement on this one.  

 

The Canucks' biggest need right now is a younger version of Alex Edler and/or a Chris Tanev type guy that can take on the toughest match-ups at the top pairing level.  Perhaps I'm wrong here, but OEL does not strike me as that guy.  To me, he's more of an offensive defenseman that needs that stay-at-home presence to cover him.  On the right side, guys like Schenn, Poolman, and Hamonic aren't guys that you want taking on opposing top lines in a shut down role.  

 

Upon analyzing our current team and the way its figured, I am of the belief that we are a hybrid of last year's version of Edmonton (very strong offense + suspect D), and Winnipeg in a best case scenario (very strong offense + very good goaltending + suspect D).  I see us being a 1st round fodder team that *maybe* gets lucky and makes the 2nd round.  While this is a step up from what we've generally seen since 2014, my biggest concern now is that we won't be able to take the next step in our development given the way our cap is configured.  Any contracts that come off the books will need to be applied to Horvat and our other RFA's.  

 

The way I see it, generally speaking, 

 

2022-23:  Freed up Luongo cap recapture money will go towards Holtby and Virtanen buyout (600K net savings) + other minor downgrades will be needed to qualify Brock Boeser. Little to no cap space to get external help.

 

2023-24:  Ferland money will be equally distributed to Horvat and Miller who will need to be re-upped.  Freed-up Holtby and Virtanen buy-out money will go towards Hoglander.   Perhaps a returning Nikita Tryamkin will replace Travis Hamonic.  Little to no cap space to get external help.

 

2024-2025:   The Canucks will have lots of cap space here as both Pearson and Myers come off the books, but a lot of this money will likely have to go towards Podkzolin and Hughes (my guess is that Pettersson will sign a 6-8 year deal in the coming weeks while Hughes will sign a bridge that will expire around 2024-2025).    

 

So, that's where I'm kind of at with this team right now.  While I'm excited over the fact that we'll likely be a playoff team these next 3-4 years, I'm just not sure if I see us progressing beyond this level given the way our long term cap is configured.  It could be another four years or so before the Canucks get to the 2nd round+++ level that we are seeing with those Colorado, Vegas, NYI, Carolina, Boston, and Tampa Bay teams.  

 

 

 

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19 hours ago, Gollumpus said:

I believe this is (fairly) accurate. If not, look it up yourself:

 

Winnipeg Jets acquire Date Vancouver Canucks acquire
Winnipeg_Jets.gif Nate Schmidt
July 27, 2021
2022 3rd round pick Vancouver_Canucks.gif
Vancouver Canucks acquire Date Arizona Coyotes acquire
Vancouver_Canucks.gif Oliver Ekman-Larsson
Conor Garland
July 23, 2021
Antoine Roussel
Jay Beagle
Loui Eriksson
2021 1st round pick
2022 2nd round pick
2023 7th round pick
Arizona_Coyotes.gif
Vancouver Canucks acquire Date Dallas Stars acquire
Vancouver_Canucks.gif Jason Dickinson
July 17, 2021
2021 3rd round pick Dallas_Stars.gif
Vancouver Canucks acquire Date New Jersey Devils acquire
Vancouver_Canucks.gif Louis Domingue
February 24, 2020
Zane McIntyre New_Jersey_Devils.gif
Vancouver Canucks acquire Date Los Angeles Kings acquire
Vancouver_Canucks.gif Tyler Toffoli
February 17, 2020
Tim Schaller
Tyler Madden
2020 2nd round pick
2022 conditional 4th round pick
Los_Angeles_Kings.gif
Comment: 2022 pick is conditional on Toffoli resigning with the Canucks
Vancouver Canucks acquire Date Detroit Red Wings acquire
Vancouver_Canucks.gif David Pope
October 7, 2019
Alex Biega Detroit_Red_Wings.gif
San Jose Sharks acquire Date Vancouver Canucks acquire
San_Jose_Sharks.gif Tom Pyatt
2019 6th round pick
June 22, 2019
Francis Perron
2019 7th round pick
Vancouver_Canucks.gif
Vancouver Canucks acquire Date Tampa Bay Lightning acquire
Vancouver_Canucks.gif J.T Miller
June 22, 2019
Marek Mazanec
2019 3rd round pick
2020 conditional 1st round pick
Tampa_Bay_Lightning.gif
Pittsburgh Penguins acquire Date Vancouver Canucks acquire
Pittsburgh_Penguins.gif Erik Gudbranson
February 25, 2019
Tanner Pearson Vancouver_Canucks.gif
Vancouver Canucks acquire Date San Jose Sharks acquire
Vancouver_Canucks.gif Linus Karlsson
February 25, 2019
Jonathan Dahlen San_Jose_Sharks.gif
Edmonton Oilers acquire Date Vancouver Canucks acquire
Edmonton_Oilers.gif Sam Gagner
February 16, 2019
Ryan Spooner Vancouver_Canucks.gif
Vancouver Canucks acquire Date New York Rangers acquire
Vancouver_Canucks.gif Marek Mazanec
February 12, 2019
2020 7th round pick New_York_Rangers.gif
Anaheim Ducks acquire Date Vancouver Canucks acquire
Anaheim_Ducks.gif Michael Del Zotto
January 17, 2019
Luke Schenn
2020 7th round pick
Vancouver_Canucks.gif
Vancouver Canucks acquire Date Ottawa Senators acquire
Vancouver_Canucks.gif Mike McKenna
Tom Pyatt
2019 6th round pick
January 2, 2019
Anders Nilsson
Darren Archibald
Ottawa_Senators.gif
Vancouver Canucks acquire Date Toronto Maple Leafs acquire
Vancouver_Canucks.gif Josh Leivo
December 3, 2018
Michael Carcone Toronto_Maple_Leafs.gif
Vancouver Canucks acquire Date Carolina Hurricanes acquire
Vancouver_Canucks.gif Tanner Kero
June 24, 2018
  Carolina_Hurricanes.gif
Vancouver Canucks acquire Date Vegas Golden Knights acquire
Vancouver_Canucks.gif Brendan Leipsic
February 26, 2018
Philip Holm Vegas_Golden_Knights.gif
Columbus Blue Jackets acquire Date Vancouver Canucks acquire
Columbus_Blue_Jackets.gif Thomas Vanek
February 26, 2018
Jussi Jokinen
Tyler Motte
Vancouver_Canucks.gif
Los Angeles Kings acquire Date Vancouver Canucks acquire
Los_Angeles_Kings.gif Jordan Subban
December 8, 2017
Nic Dowd Vancouver_Canucks.gif
Vancouver Canucks acquire Date Pittsburgh Penguins acquire
Vancouver_Canucks.gif Derrick Pouliot
October 3, 2017
Andrey Pedan
2018 4th round pick
Pittsburgh_Penguins.gif

 

San Jose Sharks acquire Date Vancouver Canucks acquire
San_Jose_Sharks.gif Jannik Hansen
March 1, 2017
Nikolay Goldobin
2017 conditional 4th round pick
Vancouver_Canucks.gif
Ottawa Senators acquire Date Vancouver Canucks acquire
Ottawa_Senators.gif Alex Burrows
February 27, 2017
Jonathan Dahlen Vancouver_Canucks.gif
Vancouver Canucks acquire Date Florida Panthers acquire
Vancouver_Canucks.gif Erik Gudbranson
2016 5th round pick
May 25, 2016
Jared McCann
2016 2nd round pick
2016 4th round pick
Florida_Panthers.gif
Carolina Hurricanes acquire Date Vancouver Canucks acquire
Carolina_Hurricanes.gif Dane Fox
March 7, 2016
Future considerations Vancouver_Canucks.gif
Vancouver Canucks acquire Date Edmonton Oilers acquire
Vancouver_Canucks.gif Philip Larsen
February 24, 2016
2017 5th round pick Edmonton_Oilers.gif
Calgary Flames acquire Date Vancouver Canucks acquire
Calgary_Flames.gif Hunter Shinkaruk
February 22, 2016
Markus Grandlund Vancouver_Canucks.gif
New York Rangers acquire Date Vancouver Canucks acquire
New_York_Rangers.gif Nicklas Jensen
2017 6th round pick
January 8, 2016
Emerson Etem Vancouver_Canucks.gif
Pittsburgh Penguins acquire Date Vancouver Canucks acquire
Pittsburgh_Penguins.gif Nick Bonino
Adam Clendening
2016 2nd round pick
July 28, 2015
Brandon Sutter
2016 condtional 3rd round pick
Vancouver_Canucks.gif
Montreal Canadiens acquire Date Vancouver Canucks acquire
Montreal_Canadiens.gif Zack Kassian
2016 5th round pick
July 1, 2015
Brandon Prust Vancouver_Canucks.gif
Anaheim Ducks acquire Date Vancouver Canucks acquire
Anaheim_Ducks.gif Kevin Bieksa
June 30, 2015
2016 2nd round pick Vancouver_Canucks.gif
San Jose Sharks acquire Date Vancouver Canucks acquire
San_Jose_Sharks.gif Patrick McNally
June 27, 2015
2015 7th round pick Vancouver_Canucks.gif
Carolina Hurricanes acquire Date Vancouver Canucks acquire
Carolina_Hurricanes.gif Eddie Lack
June 27, 2015
2015 3rd round pick
2015 7th round pick
Vancouver_Canucks.gif
Vancouver Canucks acquire Date New York Islanders acquire
Vancouver_Canucks.gif Cory Conacher
March 2, 2015
Dustin Jeffrey New_York_Islanders.gif
Vancouver Canucks acquire Date Calgary Flames acquire
Vancouver_Canucks.gif Sven Baertschi
March 2, 2015
2015 2nd round pick Calgary_Flames.gif
Vancouver Canucks acquire Date Chicago Blackhawks acquire
Vancouver_Canucks.gif Adam Clendening
January 29, 2015
Gustav Forsling Chicago_Blackhawks.gif
Vancouver Canucks acquire Date New York Islanders acquire
Vancouver_Canucks.gif Andrey Pedan
November 25, 2014
Alexandre Mallet
2016 3rd round pick
New_York_Islanders.gif
Edmonton Oilers acquire Date Vancouver Canucks acquire
Edmonton_Oilers.gif Kellan Lain
November 20, 2014
Will Acton Vancouver_Canucks.gif
Vancouver Canucks acquire Date Los Angeles Kings acquire
Vancouver_Canucks.gif Linden Vey
June 28, 2014
2014 2nd round pick Los_Angeles_Kings.gif
Anaheim Ducks acquire Date Vancouver Canucks acquire
Anaheim_Ducks.gif 2015 3rd round pick
Ryan Kesler
June 27, 2014
2014 1st round pick
Luca Sbisa
Nick Bonino
2014 3rd round pick
Vancouver_Canucks.gif
Vancouver Canucks acquire Date New York Rangers acquire
Vancouver_Canucks.gif Derek Dorsett
June 27, 2014
2014 3rd round pick New_York_Rangers.gif

 

Tampa Bay Lightning acquire Date Vancouver Canucks acquire
Tampa_Bay_Lightning.gif Jason Garrison
Jeff Costello
2015 7th round pick
June 27, 2014
2014 2nd round pick Vancouver_Canucks.gif

 

Of the picks traded away, something like half of them are 4th rounders or less. If the other team uses them to draft a bunch of Datsyuks, then yeah, that would be a. "Gee whiz, they had some drafting there", moment. Even if they found a Hansen in the latter portion of the 7th round. I'd suggest that the OP and others spend lots of time tracking who was picked, and what their careers are/were. 

 

Out of curiosity, what's the league level below the ECHL?

 

                                                         regards,  G.

 

 

 

 

 

That McCann trade was really rough

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4 minutes ago, Patel Bure said:

Don't get me wrong VH, you and I are in full agreement on this one.  

 

The Canucks' biggest need right now is a younger version of Alex Edler and/or a Chris Tanev type guy that can take on the toughest match-ups at the top pairing level.  Perhaps I'm wrong here, but OEL does not strike me as that guy.  To me, he's more of an offensive defenseman that needs that stay-at-home presence to cover him.  On the right side, guys like Schenn, Poolman, and Hamonic aren't guys that you want taking on opposing top lines in a shut down role.  

 

Upon analyzing our current team and the way its figured, I am of the belief that we are a hybrid of last year's version of Edmonton (very strong offense + suspect D), and Winnipeg in a best case scenario (very strong offense + very good goaltending + suspect D).  I see us being a 1st round fodder team that *maybe* gets lucky and makes the 2nd round.  While this is a step up from what we've generally seen since 2014, my biggest concern now is that we won't be able to take the next step in our development given the way our cap is configured.  Any contracts that come off the books will need to be applied to Horvat and our other RFA's.  

 

The way I see it, generally speaking, 

 

2022-23:  Freed up Luongo cap recapture money will go towards Holtby and Virtanen buyout (600K net savings) + other minor downgrades will be needed to qualify Brock Boeser. Little to no cap space to get external help.

 

2023-24:  Ferland money will be equally distributed to Horvat and Miller who will need to be re-upped.  Freed-up Holtby and Virtanen buy-out money will go towards Hoglander.   Perhaps a returning Nikita Tryamkin will replace Travis Hamonic.  Little to no cap space to get external help.

 

2024-2025:   The Canucks will have lots of cap space here as both Pearson and Myers come off the books, but a lot of this money will likely have to go towards Podkzolin and Hughes (my guess is that Pettersson will sign a 6-8 year deal in the coming weeks while Hughes will sign a bridge that will expire around 2024-2025).    

 

So, that's where I'm kind of at with this team right now.  While I'm excited over the fact that we'll likely be a playoff team these next 3-4 years, I'm just not sure if I see us progressing beyond this level given the way our long term cap is configured.  It could be another four years or so before the Canucks get to the 2nd round+++ level that we are seeing with those Colorado, Vegas, NYI, Carolina, Boston, and Tampa Bay teams.  

 

 

 

In terms of getting beyond that first round fodder level, the only solution that I have to offer is finding a way to get Tyler Myers off the books and putting that money to more efficient use.  

 

People might think that I'm not a Tyler Myers fan but this is not entirely true.  I think Myers is a #4 calibre d-man that should be earning around 4 million dollars.  Asking Myers to play on a top pairing with OEL or Hughes is asking for trouble.  Asking Hamonic or Poolman to play on the top pair is also asking for trouble.  

 

People might not like this suggestion, but a future move of using Rathbone or Juolevi (who hopefully increases his value this season) as a sweetener to move Tyler Myers in a 'hockey deal' of some kind might be our best move.  With that freed up cap space, the Canucks then take a run at Colton Parayko or John Klingberg in the 2022 off season.  If neither of those guys are available, go after Josh Manson and/or Connor Murphy + possibly adding to the forward group if it makes sense from a long term cap perspective.  

 

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5 hours ago, warrchief said:

That McCann trade was really rough

I have to admit to a degree of indifference regarding McCann. Would the team be significantly better with McCann being in the line up for last several years? Maybe, but then an argument could be made that the answer is perhaps not. For a guy who was ranked somewhere around #10 for NA skaters, how did he wind up still unpicked at the 24 slot? It seems like it was either a case of all of the previous selection were based on need, or perhaps they all saw something which they didn't really like, so why (potentially) waste a 1st round pick on him?

 

I'm more disappointed that the Canucks didn't select Pastrnak (taken at #25), Kempe, or Lemieux rather than trading McCann a couple of seasons later.

 

                                                             regards,  G.

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7 hours ago, VancouverHabitant said:

@Patel Bure and @Alflives  

 

While I agree with most of what you're saying about the Canucks, for me the 1D is still under question.  I love Quinn Hughes but I think we are still missing a true number 1D that can play both ends of the ice well.  

 

Although it's crazy expensive to acquire 1D through trade as we saw in the Seth Jones deal, there will be guys like Colton Parayko becoming available.  

I see Hughes as  Pat Stapleton looking for a Bill White. 

 

                                            regards,  G.

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6 hours ago, canucklehead44 said:

-8 picks overall 

traded 6 2nds, acquired 2

traded two 1sts, acquired 1

234 wins 242 losses 


what a strange rebuild 

And yet, there they are, looking like a playoff team...

 

                                       regards,  G.

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7 hours ago, Gollumpus said:

And yet, there they are, looking like a playoff team...

 

                                       regards,  G.

We better make the playoffs next year between trading away a lot of

picks and having OELs massive contract on the books we are kind of screwed. Going all in after finishing last place in arguably the weakest division is a huge risk. He would have likely missed the playoffs the year before if not for the Covid stoppage which would be 6 playoff misses in a row.  
 

That said we have a fantastic young forward group including elite level talent in EP. Demko is a legit starter and Hughes is awesome on the backend, Rathbone should be a beaut as well. It’s just the rest of our d group that scares me a bit.

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1 hour ago, canucklehead44 said:

We better make the playoffs next year between trading away a lot of

picks and having OELs massive contract on the books we are kind of screwed. Going all in after finishing last place in arguably the weakest division is a huge risk. He would have likely missed the playoffs the year before if not for the Covid stoppage which would be 6 playoff misses in a row.  
 

That said we have a fantastic young forward group including elite level talent in EP. Demko is a legit starter and Hughes is awesome on the backend, Rathbone should be a beaut as well. It’s just the rest of our d group that scares me a bit.

*Not looking to be argumentative here, just putting forward a different perspective* :)

 

I'm not losing any sleep over recent events. The Canucks team development has been advanced by about a year (maybe more?). There are still holes to be filled, boxes to be checked and all that kind of thing (mostly on defense). The cap situation will always be there. This being said, I believe the team is in better shape now then they were this time last year, or even the year before that, or the one before that, or the one before that...

 

Lots of people around here need to go take a nap.

 

                                                            regards,  G.

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I am not concerned either way with Benning's trading of past picks.

 

When Benning got here, he had a old talented club with absolutely no prospects

 

Most of the core had NTC's, and they have now run their course

 

My main complaint is not being able to, or refusing to move the NTC's before they walked

 

I know I will get huge heat for suggesting the Sedin's should have been moved, so let's move past them

 

Because they have retired

 

But the inability to recognise that he could not or would not resign, Markstrom, Tanev, Toffoli and Edler

 

really bothers me, as they would have produced a great many assets in return

 

But Benning's inability to persuade them to move their NTC's (Markstrom, Tanev, and Edler) has really hindered us

 

Especially, when all signed with other clubs, the year after, which highlights they were not Canuck's to the end

 

And to point that the Canucks were the ones that did not resign them, is arguementable, as a great many stars

 

have signed for league minimum (or close to it) to remain with their club near the end of their career.

 

So, again, as GM, this is where Benning has really dropped the puck (so to speak)

 

IMO, this has been Benning's greatest failure.

 

It is not the picks he has moved, but the picks he did not acquire (Markstrom, Tanev, Toffoli and Edler)

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1 hour ago, janisahockeynut said:

I am not concerned either way with Benning's trading of past picks.

 

When Benning got here, he had a old talented club with absolutely no prospects

 

Most of the core had NTC's, and they have now run their course

 

My main complaint is not being able to, or refusing to move the NTC's before they walked

 

I know I will get huge heat for suggesting the Sedin's should have been moved, so let's move past them

 

Because they have retired

 

But the inability to recognise that he could not or would not resign, Markstrom, Tanev, Toffoli and Edler

 

really bothers me, as they would have produced a great many assets in return

 

But Benning's inability to persuade them to move their NTC's (Markstrom, Tanev, and Edler) has really hindered us

 

Especially, when all signed with other clubs, the year after, which highlights they were not Canuck's to the end

 

And to point that the Canucks were the ones that did not resign them, is arguementable, as a great many stars

 

have signed for league minimum (or close to it) to remain with their club near the end of their career.

 

So, again, as GM, this is where Benning has really dropped the puck (so to speak)

 

IMO, this has been Benning's greatest failure.

 

It is not the picks he has moved, but the picks he did not acquire (Markstrom, Tanev, Toffoli and Edler)

I was just about to give a response to this, but I decided that getting lunch was more important.

 

                                                                     regards,  G.

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