[Signing] Canucks sign Tucker Poolman

[wai_lai416]

59 minutes ago, CanucksJay said:

Ok so you are saying that Poolman will not be worth 2.5m

Me on the other hand don't know enough to say as definitively whether he is or not. 

My hope is that he is. 

If he can bring a stable presence on the top 4, I'm totally good with 2.5

Even if he goes 3rd pairing and the play of our defence doesn't drop off the cliff, I think it's money well spent. 

We are building a very deep and balanced team. I'm on board with these moves. 

As for drafting, I think you must have a serious axe to grind if you think JB hasn't done well at the draft table. Many JB haters think he still has a job because of his drafting but you go even further and even take that from him... Smh... 

 

lol if he ends up as a 3rd pairing.. that 2.5 will be overspent to hell. most if not all contending teams are all paying 2mil and below for the bottom pairing defenseman and that's combined.. 

 

let's just assume hamonic had no issues and plays.. that means we will either have a 3mil or a 2.5mil bottom pairing defenseman... much better off getting a legit top 4 defenseman for 5mil than pay 2.5-3mil for one that's gonna play the bottom pairing.

 

as for drafting.. in terms of 1st rounds.. we have 3 1st rounder that are legit nhler out of 8 seasons of floating near the bottom of the league.. maybe 4 but we won't know about podz for a while.. we didn't even have a 1st rounder the last 2 years.. 1 was for the miller trade which was good. and the other was to get rid of all his fail contracts. i stand by my opinion, his 1st round records is still pretty terrible considering his draft position.. and jettisioning McCann for another pylon.

[PuckFather]

1 hour ago, wai_lai416 said:

lol if he ends up as a 3rd pairing.. that 2.5 will be overspent to hell. most if not all contending teams are all paying 2mil and below for the bottom pairing defenseman and that's combined.. 

 

let's just assume hamonic had no issues and plays.. that means we will either have a 3mil or a 2.5mil bottom pairing defenseman... much better off getting a legit top 4 defenseman for 5mil than pay 2.5-3mil for one that's gonna play the bottom pairing.

 

as for drafting.. in terms of 1st rounds.. we have 3 1st rounder that are legit nhler out of 8 seasons of floating near the bottom of the league.. maybe 4 but we won't know about podz for a while.. we didn't even have a 1st rounder the last 2 years.. 1 was for the miller trade which was good. and the other was to get rid of all his fail contracts. i stand by my opinion, his 1st round records is still pretty terrible considering his draft position.. and jettisioning McCann for another pylon.

This is the stuff one can only find on HFcanucks. 

[CanucksJay]

1 hour ago, wai_lai416 said:

lol if he ends up as a 3rd pairing.. that 2.5 will be overspent to hell. most if not all contending teams are all paying 2mil and below for the bottom pairing defenseman and that's combined.. 

 

let's just assume hamonic had no issues and plays.. that means we will either have a 3mil or a 2.5mil bottom pairing defenseman... much better off getting a legit top 4 defenseman for 5mil than pay 2.5-3mil for one that's gonna play the bottom pairing.

 

as for drafting.. in terms of 1st rounds.. we have 3 1st rounder that are legit nhler out of 8 seasons of floating near the bottom of the league.. maybe 4 but we won't know about podz for a while.. we didn't even have a 1st rounder the last 2 years.. 1 was for the miller trade which was good. and the other was to get rid of all his fail contracts. i stand by my opinion, his 1st round records is still pretty terrible considering his draft position.. and jettisioning McCann for another pylon.

You make it sound like top 4 dmen grow on trees. Sure, I would rather have another bonafide upper echelon D for 5 mil. Where does one get such a player? I thought Poolman played top 4 in a pairing with Morrissey but I guess we're talking about someone better. 

Hamonic played top 4 in Cgy before we acquired him. 

We tried with Schmidt at the expense of Tanev and it didn't work out. I'm glad JB shipped him out.

Let me ask you this, were you excited when we acquired Schmidt last summer? (another top 4) Again, I had no idea if he would be good or not but CDC seemed to have loved that move. 

Here's another question. 

Who would you have signed this year? 

What top 4 dman was available for 5m?

 

Do you think OEL will work out? 

I do. I thought it was a great move by JB. 

 

Also, you keep saying other teams don't spend on bottom pairing. What are you talking about? 

Let's look at the SC finals? 

Who was the 5D on Tampa? How much did he get paid? 

How much did Mtl spend on their 5th dman? 

Sure, if you want to emulate Toronto and go to heavy on forwards, I guess you can pick up some bottom pairing guy from the bargain bin? 

We have a D group that consists of

OEL, Myers, Hughes, Hamonic/Poolman and most likely Juolevi. 

I think we're going to surprise a lot of ppl this year

 

Out of the final 4, even the Islanders had a balanced D group. Their 3rd pairing made over 3m.

 

Only Vegas was the one that relied on ELC / league min players on 3rd pairing. 

 

I would rather have a deeper blue line (especially as attrition occur during playoffs) 

 

You don't want your 5 and 6 having to move up and play top 4 when they are used to being sheltered. 

 

If you want to run 5 and 6 bare bones, what do you suggest? Juolevi and Schenn? I like Schenn but that pairing may even stunt Juolevi's development and confidence. 

 

I personally love the direction of the team. 

 

 

 

 

[kenhodgejr]

Not signing Poolman might have cost us the season. 

[wai_lai416]

9 hours ago, CanucksJay said:

You make it sound like top 4 dmen grow on trees. Sure, I would rather have another bonafide upper echelon D for 5 mil. Where does one get such a player? I thought Poolman played top 4 in a pairing with Morrissey but I guess we're talking about someone better. 

Hamonic played top 4 in Cgy before we acquired him. 

We tried with Schmidt at the expense of Tanev and it didn't work out. I'm glad JB shipped him out.

Let me ask you this, were you excited when we acquired Schmidt last summer? (another top 4) Again, I had no idea if he would be good or not but CDC seemed to have loved that move. 

Here's another question. 

Who would you have signed this year? 

What top 4 dman was available for 5m?

 

Do you think OEL will work out? 

I do. I thought it was a great move by JB. 

 

Also, you keep saying other teams don't spend on bottom pairing. What are you talking about? 

Let's look at the SC finals? 

Who was the 5D on Tampa? How much did he get paid? 

How much did Mtl spend on their 5th dman? 

Sure, if you want to emulate Toronto and go to heavy on forwards, I guess you can pick up some bottom pairing guy from the bargain bin? 

We have a D group that consists of

OEL, Myers, Hughes, Hamonic/Poolman and most likely Juolevi. 

I think we're going to surprise a lot of ppl this year

 

Out of the final 4, even the Islanders had a balanced D group. Their 3rd pairing made over 3m.

 

Only Vegas was the one that relied on ELC / league min players on 3rd pairing. 

 

I would rather have a deeper blue line (especially as attrition occur during playoffs) 

 

You don't want your 5 and 6 having to move up and play top 4 when they are used to being sheltered. 

 

If you want to run 5 and 6 bare bones, what do you suggest? Juolevi and Schenn? I like Schenn but that pairing may even stunt Juolevi's development and confidence. 

 

I personally love the direction of the team. 

 

 

 

 

sry i rather have a legit top pairing defenseman and a legit top 4 pairing rather than 3 average mediocre pairing. we already spent before on our bottom defense lol and it was trash jordie benn for 2mil? we waste money every year on the defense and it's still mediocre at best

 

the lowest 2 player on the islander makes a combine less than what poolman makes i dunno what you are talking about.. mayfield at 1.4? dobson at 900k? 

 

our d group does not scare anyone OEL upgrades Edler sure that's fine. Poolman at its best is not an upgrade on schmidt at its best in anyway shape or form. If Schmidt struggled in our system Poolman could possibly struggled too. 

[King Heffy]

Just now, wai_lai416 said:

sry i rather have a legit top pairing defenseman and a legit top 4 pairing rather than 3 average mediocre pairing. we already spent before on our bottom defense lol and it was trash jordie benn for 2mil? we waste money every year on the defense and it's still mediocre at best

 

the lowest 2 player on the islander makes a combine less than what poolman makes i dunno what you are talking about.. mayfield at 1.4? dobson at 900k? 

 

our d group does not scare anyone OEL upgrades Edler sure that's fine. Poolman at its best is not an upgrade on schmidt at its best in anyway shape or form. If Schmidt struggled in our system Poolman could possibly struggled too. 

Poolman is far superior to Schmidt defensively, which is the most important part of his position.

[CanucksJay]

14 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

sry i rather have a legit top pairing defenseman and a legit top 4 pairing rather than 3 average mediocre pairing. we already spent before on our bottom defense lol and it was trash jordie benn for 2mil? we waste money every year on the defense and it's still mediocre at best

 

the lowest 2 player on the islander makes a combine less than what poolman makes i dunno what you are talking about.. mayfield at 1.4? dobson at 900k? 

 

our d group does not scare anyone OEL upgrades Edler sure that's fine. Poolman at its best is not an upgrade on schmidt at its best in anyway shape or form. If Schmidt struggled in our system Poolman could possibly struggled too. 

I agreed with you. Id rather have a bonafide top pairing D man and a solid top 4 D group. Problem is, not many NHL teams have that as there is a limited commodity of top end defensemen. 

 

I can also say, I want a hart trophy winner and an art Ross winner along with a rocket Richard winner on the first line. 

 

The only game changing defensemen that was signed in recent years was Pietrangelo. You can't make a player come here. 

 

Who else would you have signed? 

Unless presenting a better option, it doesnt make sense to critique a move and say I want someone better. 

 

Who would you have acquired this year? 

JB got OEL, Hamonic and Poolman. 

 

What are your alternatives? 

 

Personally I think Poolman and Schmidt serve totally different roles. 

 

Schmidt was caught numerous times jumping and pinching. 

We have OEL and Hughes to run the offense through. We even have myers who I think is a solid player. Big guy that can skate and handle the puck while bringing some bite on the blue line. St Louis series is when he showed his worth in gold. We need a Tanev replacement so Poolman is a better fit than Schmidt and I think saving on that contract differential is a good move. 

[CanucksJay]

38 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

sry i rather have a legit top pairing defenseman and a legit top 4 pairing rather than 3 average mediocre pairing. we already spent before on our bottom defense lol and it was trash jordie benn for 2mil? we waste money every year on the defense and it's still mediocre at best

 

the lowest 2 player on the islander makes a combine less than what poolman makes i dunno what you are talking about.. mayfield at 1.4? dobson at 900k? 

 

our d group does not scare anyone OEL upgrades Edler sure that's fine. Poolman at its best is not an upgrade on schmidt at its best in anyway shape or form. If Schmidt struggled in our system Poolman could possibly struggled too. 

You are also missing Hickey @ 2.5 who is now buried in the minors with a 1.375 cap hit.

 

Imagine if that was JB who signed Hickey. Pretty sure you would have a field day with that. That's 3.675 on Mayfield Dobson and the guy they had penciled on 3rd pairing. 

[Rindiculous]

1 hour ago, wai_lai416 said:

sry i rather have a legit top pairing defenseman and a legit top 4 pairing rather than 3 average mediocre pairing. we already spent before on our bottom defense lol and it was trash jordie benn for 2mil? we waste money every year on the defense and it's still mediocre at best

 

the lowest 2 player on the islander makes a combine less than what poolman makes i dunno what you are talking about.. mayfield at 1.4? dobson at 900k? 

 

our d group does not scare anyone OEL upgrades Edler sure that's fine. Poolman at its best is not an upgrade on schmidt at its best in anyway shape or form. If Schmidt struggled in our system Poolman could possibly struggled too. 

Yes, we have 2 legit top pairing defensemen on the left side.  We have Myers who is a legit top 4 on the right side.  The other 3 could all fit in in the top 4 even though they aren't true top 4 defensemen.  How many teams have 4 true top 4 defensemen? 5 teams?  Maybe 10 although I think that's a little high.  Honestly if all of our defense plays to their potential (looking specifically at OEL and a little bit Hughes), we could have a top 5 to 10 defensive cores in the league with two elite defensemen on the blueline which we have never had in our history.

[CanucksJay]

18 minutes ago, Rindiculous said:

Yes, we have 2 legit top pairing defensemen on the left side.  We have Myers who is a legit top 4 on the right side.  The other 3 could all fit in in the top 4 even though they aren't true top 4 defensemen.  How many teams have 4 true top 4 defensemen? 5 teams?  Maybe 10 although I think that's a little high.  Honestly if all of our defense plays to their potential (looking specifically at OEL and a little bit Hughes), we could have a top 5 to 10 defensive cores in the league with two elite defensemen on the blueline which we have never had in our history.

@wai_lai416 has unrealistic expectations.

If you see the glass as half empty, you'll always be annoyed that they screwed you out of a full cup. 

What's funny is that between OEL, Hughes Myers, that's 3 top 4.

Theres Hamonic and Poolman who ironically were Top 4 on their previous teams taking up 4D and 5D. We have Juolevi who should have been a top 4 by now if not marred by injury. We then have Rathbone trending towards being a top 4 D man. 

 

Yet he is complaining... 

 

[King Heffy]

1 hour ago, CanucksJay said:

You are also missing Hickey @ 2.5 who is now buried in the minors with a 1.375 cap hit.

 

Imagine if that was JB who signed Hickey. Pretty sure you would have a field day with that. That's 3.675 on Mayfield Dobson and the guy they had penciled on 3rd pairing. 

We had Ballard making $3.3M with a lower cap to sit in AV's doghouse, and we still made the finals.

[4petesake]

2 minutes ago, CanucksJay said:

@wai_lai416 has unrealistic expectations.

If you see the glass as half empty, you'll always be annoyed that they screwed you out of a full cup. 

What's funny is that between OEL, Hughes Myers, that's 3 top 4.

Theres Hamonic and Poolman who ironically were Top 4 on their previous teams taking up 4D and 5D. We have Juolevi who should have been a top 4 by now if not marred by injury. We then have Rathbone trending towards being a top 4 D man. 

 

Yet he is complaining... 

 

After reading your discussion with @wai_lai416 I took at look at salaries of top 4/5 D on Capfriendly. Average for #5D is $1.804 and #4D is $2.94M.

If Poolman plays 5 or 6 then yes you could argue he’s overpaid a little but if he’s 3 or 4 he’ll be a heck of a bargain. Specially when you look at some of the other #4s like Del Zotto in Ottawa or Simek in SJ. 

 

Poolman is our 5th highest paid D. He would be the same on 15 other teams, the 6th highest on 5 teams and the 7th on one. If he turns out to be top 4 his contract will be a thing of beauty! Even if he slots in as a dependable 5/6 I’ll be satisfied.

 

[aGENT]

40 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

We had Ballard making $3.3M with a lower cap to sit in AV's doghouse, and we still made the finals.

And that's a decade of inflation/cap increases ago.

[CanucksJay]

47 minutes ago, 4petesake said:

After reading your discussion with @wai_lai416 I took at look at salaries of top 4/5 D on Capfriendly. Average for #5D is $1.804 and #4D is $2.94M.

If Poolman plays 5 or 6 then yes you could argue he’s overpaid a little but if he’s 3 or 4 he’ll be a heck of a bargain. Specially when you look at some of the other #4s like Del Zotto in Ottawa or Simek in SJ. 

 

Poolman is our 5th highest paid D. He would be the same on 15 other teams, the 6th highest on 5 teams and the 7th on one. If he turns out to be top 4 his contract will be a thing of beauty! Even if he slots in as a dependable 5/6 I’ll be satisfied.

 

Thanks for doing the research. Poolman will be a 5D at worst. If he stabilizes the 3rd pairing, that's still a win in my books. 

He is a guys that can play top 4 but if we have in on 3rd pairing, that's a luxury in our books. Why would we complain about having good depth on D? 

The argument I realize is to not have hamonic and poolman and used the 5.5 to sign someone else. 

 

Who would that be though? 

 

And what does that do to our 3rd pairing? 

 

Schenn and Juolevi/Rathbone? 

 

That won't end well. 

What happens if a top 4D gets injured (like it normally does) 

Does Schenn or Juolevi go into the top 4?

What does that do to our 3rd pairing? 

 

Not having Poolman definitely makes the team weaker in my books and one injury on D will further expose that

 

 

 

[wai_lai416]

1 hour ago, CanucksJay said:

@wai_lai416 has unrealistic expectations.

If you see the glass as half empty, you'll always be annoyed that they screwed you out of a full cup. 

What's funny is that between OEL, Hughes Myers, that's 3 top 4.

Theres Hamonic and Poolman who ironically were Top 4 on their previous teams taking up 4D and 5D. We have Juolevi who should have been a top 4 by now if not marred by injury. We then have Rathbone trending towards being a top 4 D man. 

 

Yet he is complaining... 

 

sure u have OEL Hughes top 4 myer depending on teams could be argued he's not a top 4 but sure i'll give u he's a top 4. problem is none of them are legit top 2 none is a legit top 1 that can play the big defensive/offensive mins. OEL is probably the closest IF he can bounce back to form couple years ago. really shouldn't even be call top 4 should just be middle 2 coz none of them currently are legit 1st pairing defenseman that you would throw out against other teams top line in a do or die situation. we only throwing them out coz we have no other choice.. and again we like to over estimates every single one of our rookie.. rathbone is tredning to be a top 4 d man right now? chances are he's not even going to beat out Juolevi for the last spot assuming hamonic plays. he doesn't even have a spot on this team tbh. espeically with hughes re-signing. we don't need a bunch of offensive defensiveman on this team with questionable defense. but according to people here we have a great looking defense when it's a consensus around the league it's still very questionable at best. it's definitely have the potential to be much better than last year.. but still going to be relying on demko to stand on his head each and every night.

[CanucksJay]

14 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

sure u have OEL Hughes top 4 myer depending on teams could be argued he's not a top 4 but sure i'll give u he's a top 4. problem is none of them are legit top 2 none is a legit top 1 that can play the big defensive/offensive mins. OEL is probably the closest IF he can bounce back to form couple years ago. really shouldn't even be call top 4 should just be middle 2 coz none of them currently are legit 1st pairing defenseman that you would throw out against other teams top line in a do or die situation. we only throwing them out coz we have no other choice.. and again we like to over estimates every single one of our rookie.. rathbone is tredning to be a top 4 d man right now? chances are he's not even going to beat out Juolevi for the last spot assuming hamonic plays. he doesn't even have a spot on this team tbh. espeically with hughes re-signing. we don't need a bunch of offensive defensiveman on this team with questionable defense. but according to people here we have a great looking defense when it's a consensus around the league it's still very questionable at best. it's definitely have the potential to be much better than last year.. but still going to be relying on demko to stand on his head each and every night.

Ok so if I'm hearing you correctly, you want a 1D. 

A premier player in the NHL. 

Like a Chara or Weber in his prime. 

I do too. 

I would have loved to get Pietrangelo when he was available. 

How often are guys like that available today? 

If you can find a way to acquire one of those guys, please send the idea JBs way and I will support you. 

What is the next best thing? Perhaps a deep blue line that can play by committee. (which is what we have) 

 

As for Rathbone. He is still young. Are you already writing him off? He won't ever become a top 4?

[wai_lai416]

49 minutes ago, CanucksJay said:

Ok so if I'm hearing you correctly, you want a 1D. 

A premier player in the NHL. 

Like a Chara or Weber in his prime. 

I do too. 

I would have loved to get Pietrangelo when he was available. 

How often are guys like that available today? 

If you can find a way to acquire one of those guys, please send the idea JBs way and I will support you. 

What is the next best thing? Perhaps a deep blue line that can play by committee. (which is what we have) 

 

As for Rathbone. He is still young. Are you already writing him off? He won't ever become a top 4?

no i don't want a 1d if we don't have a 1d i rather go with 4 strong D man and 2 filler rather than 2 strong 3 average and 1 filler which is what we have right now.

 

regardless this is getting off topic. it started off as poolman at 2.5 x4 is too long for a guy that have proven nothing in the league and showed little to no offense. one of poolman/hamonic is going to be a bottom pairing defenseman that's 2.5mil-3mil for a #5D instead of pooling the cap to either sign a better top 4D or trade for one.

[Canuck Luck]

Poolman's contract is fine for his age and abilities.

[Rindiculous]

22 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

no i don't want a 1d if we don't have a 1d i rather go with 4 strong D man and 2 filler rather than 2 strong 3 average and 1 filler which is what we have right now.

 

regardless this is getting off topic. it started off as poolman at 2.5 x4 is too long for a guy that have proven nothing in the league and showed little to no offense. one of poolman/hamonic is going to be a bottom pairing defenseman that's 2.5mil-3mil for a #5D instead of pooling the cap to either sign a better top 4D or trade for one.

We have 2 strong to elite D, 1 strong top 4 D, 2 average D, and 1 young up and coming D.  That's pretty good.

[CanucksJay]

51 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

no i don't want a 1d if we don't have a 1d i rather go with 4 strong D man and 2 filler rather than 2 strong 3 average and 1 filler which is what we have right now.

 

regardless this is getting off topic. it started off as poolman at 2.5 x4 is too long for a guy that have proven nothing in the league and showed little to no offense. one of poolman/hamonic is going to be a bottom pairing defenseman that's 2.5mil-3mil for a #5D instead of pooling the cap to either sign a better top 4D or trade for one.

You keep saying you don't like this, but you haven't given a solution. 

Who would you have signed this year instead of getting OEL, Hamonic and Poolman? 

What's the point of rattling off ideal situations when that solution is not present?