[Signing] Canucks sign Tucker Poolman

[Gurn]

20 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

is just in it to argue. 

maybe they are, maybe they're not.  

[flat land fish]

7 minutes ago, Provost said:

Maybe… but we paid him more than anyone else was willing to… and more than other guys with similar resumes… so we can all hope our pro scouts or Shaw as a new voice are right on his potential.

 

They paid about a million dollars more and/or a year or two too long based strictly on his past performance. 

Management’s judgement on pro scouting has certainly earned a healthy level of distrust.  We just paid a top Ten pick and a 2nd round pick to get out from under contracts that were bad calls on their part.  That is possibly another Horvat and another Demko we removed from our Prospect pool based on their bad judgment.

 

All the other signing seem like pretty good

bets based on past performance and that is good news.  This one is just the one filled with the most risk.  That isn’t just my opinion, that is a pretty common one from folks who get paid to give their opinions and/or have a lot of experience in the game.

Did we not get 2 nhl players for this years lineup in the trade with Arizona?  Draft picks could be better worse or totally bust. 

[Alflives]

I predict Poolman will be a triple 20 player:

20 Points

20 min/game

plus 20

 

That's one heck of a valuable player, and why we are headed for a 100+ point season.  

[Dazzle]

45 minutes ago, Provost said:

Maybe… but we paid him more than anyone else was willing to… and more than other guys with similar resumes… so we can all hope our pro scouts or Shaw as a new voice are right on his potential.

 

They paid about a million dollars more and/or a year or two too long based strictly on his past performance. 

Management’s judgement on pro scouting has certainly earned a healthy level of distrust.  We just paid a top Ten pick and a 2nd round pick to get out from under contracts that were bad calls on their part.  That is possibly another Horvat and another Demko we removed from our Prospect pool based on their bad judgment.

 

All the other signing seem like pretty good

bets based on past performance and that is good news.  This one is just the one filled with the most risk.  That isn’t just my opinion, that is a pretty common one from folks who get paid to give their opinions and/or have a lot of experience in the game.

Look - another 'blame management' post. It seems to me like we weren't the only team that signed bad UFAs that year. So you're telling me a lot off the paid people who have a lot of experience in the game can't make mistakes? So many GMs flubbed this... HMM.

 

This was an exceptional year of bad signings, and blaming management is probably the laziest way to understand the situation.

 

Not sure what your post has anything to do with Tucker Poolman, but I'll just link this.

 

https://thewincolumn.ca/2019/06/24/a-ufa-cautionary-tale-the-2016-free-agent-class-is-nightmare-fuel/

 

Milan Lucic	EDM	28	7	$42,000,000	$6,000,000
Kyle Okposo	BUF	28	7	$42,000,000	$6,000,000
Andrew Ladd	NYI	30	7	$38,500,000	$5,500,000
Loui Eriksson	VAN	30	6	$36,000,000	$6,000,000
Frans Nielsen	DET	32	6	$31,500,000	$5,250,000
David Backes	BOS	32	5	$30,000,000	$6,000,000
Troy Brouwer	CGY	30	4	$18,000,000	$4,500,000
James Reimer	FLA	28	5	$17,000,000	$3,400,000
Mikkel Boedker	SJ	26	4	$16,000,000	$4,000,000
Eric Staal	MIN	31	3	$10,500,000	$3,500,000
Jamie McGinn	ARI	27	3	$10,000,000	$3,333,333
Matt Martin	TOR	27	4	$10,000,000	$2,500,000
Dale Weise	PHI	27	4	$9,400,000	$2,350,000
David Schlemko	SJ	29	4	$8,400,000	$2,100,000
Ben Lovejoy	NJ	32	3	$8,000,000	$2,666,667
Dan Hamhuis	DAL	33	2	$7,500,000	$3,750,000
David Perron	STL	28	2	$7,500,000	$3,750,000
Lee Stempniak	CAR	33	2	$5,000,000	$2,500,000
Joe Colborne	COL	26	2	$5,000,000	$2,500,000

Edited August 3, 2021 by Dazzle

[Millerdraft]

1 hour ago, Provost said:

Maybe… but we paid him more than anyone else was willing to… and more than other guys with similar resumes… so we can all hope our pro scouts or Shaw as a new voice are right on his potential.

 

They paid about a million dollars more and/or a year or two too long based strictly on his past performance. 

Management’s judgement on pro scouting has certainly earned a healthy level of distrust.  We just paid a top Ten pick and a 2nd round pick to get out from under contracts that were bad calls on their part.  That is possibly another Horvat and another Demko we removed from our Prospect pool based on their bad judgment.

 

All the other signing seem like pretty good

bets based on past performance and that is good news.  This one is just the one filled with the most risk.  That isn’t just my opinion, that is a pretty common one from folks who get paid to give their opinions and/or have a lot of experience in the game.

The bolded paragraph genuinely does not belong in this thread, it belongs in the OEL thread, and that’s not even mentioning that the OEL Garland trade was NOT about getting out from under “bad contracts”.  This was about acquiring a top-six forward for a 1st round pick (is the JT Miller cost of acquisition ringing a bell here?) and Arizona getting out from a financial commitment that had run its course of positive returns for them (a disgruntled star after a disconnect between the coach and himself).  The return they received for OEL was a 2nd round pick and the contracts that we sent the other way made the deal possible for us to fit it under the cap.  As a convenient consequence of said move we were able to fill a top-4 D hole and a top-six forward hole in one fell swoop.  Again though, continuing this conversation requires taking it to the other thread.  This is the Tucker Poolman thread.

Edited August 3, 2021 by Millerdraft

[-DLC-]

1 hour ago, Provost said:

We just paid a top Ten pick and a 2nd round pick to get out from under contracts that were bad calls on their part.  

We got something in return and to leave that part out and use the word "paid" like it wasn't a "trade" where something came back to us is suspect to me.  It feeds an agenda but it isn't factual.

 

And to clear them all out?  Nobody here expected that....but we're still unhappy?  

[Devron]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

I predict Poolman will be a triple 20 player:

20 Points

20 min/game

plus 20

 

That's one heck of a valuable player, and why we are headed for a 100+ point season.  

I always want to see Canucks succeed. There’s been one exception to this rule and that was LE. I tried Alf, I really did.

 

To my point. I want to see this guy knock it out of the park and to do that, what does he need to do? Just be a solid 4th/5th guy for the next 4 years. That’s it, that all. That’s what he’s paid to do. He needs to play to a 2.5 million dollar defencemen. That’s it. 
 

I can’t believe some people in here. Oh wait yes I can.

[Junkyard Dog]

1 hour ago, Provost said:

Maybe… but we paid him more than anyone else was willing to… and more than other guys with similar resumes… so we can all hope our pro scouts or Shaw as a new voice are right on his potential.

 

They paid about a million dollars more and/or a year or two too long based strictly on his past performance. 

Management’s judgement on pro scouting has certainly earned a healthy level of distrust.  We just paid a top Ten pick and a 2nd round pick to get out from under contracts that were bad calls on their part.  That is possibly another Horvat and another Demko we removed from our Prospect pool based on their bad judgment.

 

All the other signing seem like pretty good

bets based on past performance and that is good news.  This one is just the one filled with the most risk.  That isn’t just my opinion, that is a pretty common one from folks who get paid to give their opinions and/or have a lot of experience in the game.

We did get Garland and OEL in giving up those picks while dumping cap. Garland seems like a good pickup as we needed another scoring winger. OEL remains to be seen but I do expect him to be an upgrade on Edler(how much, as I said, remains to be seen).

 

Like OEL Poolman remains to be seen too. By all accounts he's had an up and down year last year with Covid an injuries. 1 year too long for my likings but he isn't that old(will be 32 when it ends).

 

To me this is another off-season with question marks going in, similar yet different. We won't see answers till the season progresses. I am a little more optimistic about next season than I was going into last season but the questions still remain. I will hold judgement till we see them play over the course of the season.

 

Personally I believe we're more at risk of losing our guys if we don't improve. We've spent a considerable amount of time at the bottom and I could see guys like Miller/Horvat test FA if we continue down this path which could lead to a snowball effect(with youngsters maybe wanting to follow). That is a part of the reason why I believe JB is taking strides to ice a better roster, on top of being on a shorter leash. Sens/Sabres proved that even the guys you draft won't stick around forever if you don't make strides. At least this is the speculative observation I believe.

[Millerdraft]

I’d also like to say that if this is the contract with the most risk to it, then we’re looking pretty golden because this contract is not some kind of immovable, buyout proof deal that’s gonna cost us $5m in cap space for five, six years…

 

Let’s go Poolman!

[EB43]

2 hours ago, Alflives said:

I predict Poolman will be a triple 20 player:

20 Points

20 min/game

plus 20

 

That's one heck of a valuable player, and why we are headed for a 100+ point season.  

A+ for positivity, the plus 20 is reachable maybe the last 2 years of the contract is he sticks!

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Millerdraft said:

I’d also like to say that if this is the contract with the most risk to it, then we’re looking pretty golden because this contract is not some kind of immovable, buyout proof deal that’s gonna cost us $5m in cap space for five, six years…

 

Let’s go Poolman!

Exactly 

 

2.5 mil/year for a 28 year old RHD is really not that hard of a contract to offload if we change our mind. Teams around the league are pretty desperate for RHD just like we were before signing five of them (Poolman, Schenn, Keeper, Hunt and Hamonic). 

[Hairy Kneel]

Re-watching Poolman in the playoffs. The series winning goal by Tofu,  Pool had his man Suzuki against the boards, but Caulfield beat Copp out of the corner and found Tofu backdoor for the series winner. Pool is usually on as a primary pk. I liked how he checked Tofu at one point, took him completely out of the play. A couple nice hits. He very much reminds me of a larger framed Tanev. Nice on his skates and good passes. Once he jumped into the crease to cause some chaos in front of Price. It was a nice play. He has very good defensive awareness more of a defense first guy. Overall I like his calm play, on one defensive breakdown Pool covered for Morrissey nicely, stopping Caulfield from a breakaway. I like how he takes the hits that are there and doesn't chase hits. , I like how he forced Suzuki i into the corner after the whistle stopping Suzi3 from going into the crease to cause ruckus. He skates the puck through traffic calm as well. He's like a beefier Tanev. First goal of the series with Montreal Poolman had his man on the boards then Morrissey lost track of Koktemi back door. Second goal of the series Poolman was paired with Stanley, but Stanley got out of position trying for a elbow hit in front of Hellybuck. I think Stanley was bumped down after that play. Poolman is a good Tanev comparison, but more physical. And a whole lot cheaper.
 Poolman on the PK will take some pressure off Myers on the right side, which I'm excited to see. Myers can put more energy into his offense. 
I think the 12 other teams interested in Poolman drove up his price a bit. But RHD are what we needed. 

Edited August 3, 2021 by Hairy Kneel

[Elias Pettersson]

26 minutes ago, Hairy Kneel said:

Re-watching Poolman in the playoffs. The series winning goal by Tofu,  Pool had his man Suzuki against the boards, but Caulfield beat Copp out of the corner and found Tofu backdoor for the series winner. Pool was on as a primary pk. I liked how he checked Tofu at one point, took him completely out of the play. A couple nice hits. He very much reminds me of a larger framed Tanev. Nice on his skates and good passes. Once he jumped into the crease to cause some chaos in front of Price. It was a nice play. He has very good defensive awareness. Overall I like his calm play, on one defensive breakdown Pool covered for Morrissey nicely, stopping Caulfield from a breakaway. I like how he takes the hits that are there, I like how he took Suzuki i into the corner after the whistle stopping Suzi3 from going into the crease. He skates the puck through traffic calm as well. He's like a beefier Tanev. First goal of the series with Montreal Poolman had his man on the boards thenMorrissey lost track of Koktemi back door. Second goal of the series Poolman was paired with Stanley, but Stanley got out of position trying for a elbow hit in front of Hellybuck. I think Stanley was bumped down after that play. Poolman is a good Tanev comparison, but more physical. And a whole lot cheaper.
 Poolman on the PK will take some pressure off Myers on the right side.
I think the 12 other teams interested in Poolman drove up his price a bit. But RHD are what we needed. 

Great analysis Hairy.  I think Poolman is going to play with Quinn.  He is the Tanev replacement and will cover for him on the defensive side.  OEL will probably play with Myers but could also play with Hamonic.  Hamonic will rotate with Schenn in the lineup.

 

Poolman is actuallly cheaper than Hamonic and will most likely play bigger minutes so the $2.5 million is insignificant if Poolman can continue his trajectory and play 18-19 minutes a night.  He's younger than both Hamonic and Tanev so the 4 years does not bother me at all.  We are talking about a top 4 RHD here.  Top 4 RHD are in big demand.  That's why 12 teams were after him and the Canucks needed to give him term.

[4petesake]

RD UFA signings listed on Capfriendly as signing one way contracts:

                             $1M or under = Deangelo, Pysyk, Wideman, all 1yr deals, Bogosian 3 yrs.

                             $1M - $1.5M  = Hakanpää 3 x 1.5, Osterle 2 x 1.35, Dermott 2 x 1.5 

                             $2M +             = Cole 1 x 2.9, Poolman 4 x 2.5, Ceci 4 x 3.25, Montour 3 x 3.5, Barrie 3 x 4.5, Goligoski 1 x 5

I haven’t listed Adam Larsson or David Savard who signed or were rumoured to have signed before FA began, or guys like Dougie Hamilton. As you can see it’s not a very large list to choose from.

[Elias Pettersson]

8 minutes ago, 4petesake said:

RD UFA signings listed on Capfriendly as signing one way contracts:

                             $1M or under = Deangelo, Pysyk, Wideman, all 1yr deals, Bogosian 3 yrs.

                             $1M - $1.5M  = Hakanpää 3 x 1.5, Osterle 2 x 1.35, Dermott 2 x 1.5 

                             $2M +             = Cole 1 x 2.9, Poolman 4 x 2.5, Ceci 4 x 3.25, Montour 3 x 3.5, Barrie 3 x 4.5, Goligoski 1 x 5

I haven’t listed Adam Larsson or David Savard who signed or were rumoured to have signed before FA began, or guys like Dougie Hamilton. As you can see it’s not a very large list to choose from.

Whoever was in on Poolman was probably in on Ceci as well.  I believe we got the better player and better defender at a much cheaper price.  The market drove up the price for Ceci as well and Edmonton overpaid for him because of it.

[CanucksJay]

3 hours ago, Provost said:

Maybe… but we paid him more than anyone else was willing to… and more than other guys with similar resumes… so we can all hope our pro scouts or Shaw as a new voice are right on his potential.

 

They paid about a million dollars more and/or a year or two too long based strictly on his past performance. 

Management’s judgement on pro scouting has certainly earned a healthy level of distrust.  We just paid a top Ten pick and a 2nd round pick to get out from under contracts that were bad calls on their part.  That is possibly another Horvat and another Demko we removed from our Prospect pool based on their bad judgment.

 

All the other signing seem like pretty good

bets based on past performance and that is good news.  This one is just the one filled with the most risk.  That isn’t just my opinion, that is a pretty common one from folks who get paid to give their opinions and/or have a lot of experience in the game.

It's so easy to critique. 

So for 2.5m, which RD UFA would you have rather signed this summer? 

It'll be interesting to compare that player to Poolman this season. 

I'm not only talking about points. I'm talking about an RD that fits the team needs. Any better options? 

 

[goblix]

4 hours ago, Alflives said:

I predict Poolman will be a triple 20 player:

20 Points

20 min/game

plus 20

 

That's one heck of a valuable player, and why we are headed for a 100+ point season.  

Sutter is a good locker room guy, perhaps he can also give him his jersey number 20

[Hairy Kneel]

I still have two Canuck games to look at with Pools. 

[Dazzle]

3 hours ago, CanucksJay said:

It's so easy to critique. 

So for 2.5m, which RD UFA would you have rather signed this summer? 

It'll be interesting to compare that player to Poolman this season. 

I'm not only talking about points. I'm talking about an RD that fits the team needs. Any better options? 

 

People are gonna say Hakannpaa, even though he's played half the games of Poolman.

 

There's always going to be some excuse to badmouth Poolman on the basis of a contract being supposedly overpaid. It's just an endless cycle with no real explanation on the critic's side about the player himself.

[smithers joe]

On 7/28/2021 at 9:59 AM, awalk said:

I think I'd make a great GM in that situation because I would simply not sign Tucker Poolman 

who would you have signed? so we can nit pick your choices.