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Canucks: most improved team next year?

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Out: Edler, Beagle, Roussel, Eriksson, Schmidt, Chatfield,Holtby

In: OEL, Dickinson, Garland, Podkolzin,Poolman, Schenn, Halak

 

OEL > Edler

Dickinson >= Beagle

Garland >>>> Roussel

Podkolzin infinitely better than Eriksson

Poolman < Schmidt in puck moving/offence but he's good defensively and twice cheaper.

Schenn > Chatfield

Halak >= Holtby

 

The team got much better.

 

Most importantly, we have way better depth.

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42 minutes ago, Bobby James said:

I dunno it sure feels like you are just assuming all the worst things happen to our new D group next season. Sure if everyone on D sucks we'll be bad. 

 

Hughes is only getting better, but we also know his role isn't purely defensive he is an elite offensive defensemen.

Saying Rathbone is a rookie doesn't mean anything. Even if you just look at our team, look at what rookies have done in the last few years. 

I personally think Meyers had a decent season last year on a bad defensive team. Has some bite to his play and skates well for his size. I think he'll pair with OEL and we'll have to wait and see how they do together. 

It isn't that OEL has performed badly all around the last couple years. He's been weak defensively specifically. On that I 100% agree and he needs to get back to who he was, but offensively wasn't he still on pace for 40+ points in a full season last year? Canucks fans have long complained we get 0 offense from our D, then we got Hughes and people were upset he had to carry all the Defensive production. It is nice to have another top 4 offensive Dman. 

 

I get it, I understand the concern and definitely agree OEL has risk, but I think this D group looks better than last year and our forward group has absolutely had a great upgrade. Goaltending also looks good. 
I'm excited for next year. 

Absolutely the opposite. 

 

I'm just using how they'll historically performed and assuming that they will more or less continue that with Hughes/Rathbone being maybes to improve. 

 

We had one of the worst dcorps last year, lost our two top defensive defenseman and replaced them with a struggling OEL and a bottom pairing Poolman. Therefore I am expecting more of the same because that is the most likely to occur. By our defense being a disaster, I'm talking specifically about keeping the puck out of the net. 

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25 minutes ago, Nave said:

I think we may have had the best offseason of any team. Haven't been this excited for a season in years.
Benning has certainly been "aggressive." 

And 'smartly' aggressive. Very strategic, smart contracts, great adds, great support for the core and solving all the problems at once. For all the frustration I had with Benning over the last couple of years (and I was a defender of his for the most part), he really showed some skill here. Kudo's to him, now its on Green, the coaches and the core to do their thing. Green and the players have no excuses now, he has a real team here. The other point people may be missing, is these moves send a real message to our core, we want to win, we brought in the help you needed, lets go!  I am sure the players are very excited and re-energized to get going again, and that was needed!

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4 minutes ago, Duodenum said:

Absolutely the opposite. 

 

I'm just using how they'll historically performed and assuming that they will more or less continue that with Hughes/Rathbone being maybes to improve. 

 

We had one of the worst dcorps last year, lost our two top defensive defenseman and replaced them with a struggling OEL and a bottom pairing Poolman. Therefore I am expecting more of the same because that is the most likely to occur. By our defense being a disaster, I'm talking specifically about keeping the puck out of the net. 

Its a fair argument to say we lost better defenders in Edler and Schmidt. But the counter is we now have better offensive dmen who can move the puck out quickly. You don't defend as much when you have the puck good sir! The twins taught us that! And I do believe our new D coach will make a significant impact. Baumer is junk. St Louis D plays a terrific system and this guy is considered one of the best in the league. Our defensive play will improve dramatically.

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6 minutes ago, Duodenum said:

Absolutely the opposite. 

 

I'm just using how they'll historically performed and assuming that they will more or less continue that with Hughes/Rathbone being maybes to improve. 

 

We had one of the worst dcorps last year, lost our two top defensive defenseman and replaced them with a struggling OEL and a bottom pairing Poolman. Therefore I am expecting more of the same because that is the most likely to occur. By our defense being a disaster, I'm talking specifically about keeping the puck out of the net.

Yeah that's fair maybe the changes won't work and we'll get the same struggling/can't keep the puck out of our end or net type of defense we have had before. I think Hamonic should be better than last season since he was injured to start and it was the covid year. I don't know anything about Poolman so I'll go with what you're saying and he's a bottom pairing guy that won't have much impact in the grand scheme of things. 

 

I suppose we'll see how this group does compared to last years group. I do think OEL is an exciting risk that could pay off and having two offensive LD might help us keep the puck more and move it to the forwards could be beneficial overall. 

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1 hour ago, Podz19 said:

Defense is a disaster? How?

 

We have a talented offensive player on each pairing on the left

Size on the right

Plus I am sure the new coach from St Louis will make a big impact and make Baumer's lack of coaching moot.

 

OEL Myers

Hughes Hamonic

Juolevi / Rathbone / Schenn

Poolman

 

That D has players on each side that have specific roles and can play that role effectively.

Myers can settle down and not try to do too much and just stay at home now.

OEL is still a very good talent who will likely improve here with a better team

Hughes is huges

Hamonic played very well down the stretch with Huggy as he learned his role, stay at home and bang

Bottom pair will see limited ice and Juolevi was playing really well until he got hit with covid. 

Schenn is tough as nails, stays at home

Rathbone  is showing he's ready as well

Poolman, wildcard depth

 

Its no Tampa but much better than last year imho

Right and the team has the right players and young players on the trajectory to be like Tampa up front as well.

 

1. EP - Kucherov 

 

The skill and potential is there for EP to be like Kucherov one day.

 

2. Boeser - Stamkos 

 

Boeser can be a 30-40 goal scorer like Stamkos is now, although he will never be like 60 goal Stamkos. But TB didn't win much when Stammer was scoring 60 goals anyways.

 

3. Horvat - Point 

 

Yes, Point is much better player overall but Horvat's a playoff performer just like Point.

 

4. Miller - Killorn 

 

Miller is better overall but both guys use their size effectively to make plays.

 

5. Garland - Gourde

 

Both guys are undersized but makes plays and are not afraid to go to the net to score.

 

6. Hoglander - Palat

 

Hoglander's more feisty than Palat.

 

7. Podkolzin - Coleman

 

Workhorse wingers that are responsible at both ends.

 

8. Dickinson - Cirelli

 

Cirelli is obviously a better player at this point but the two are similarly good in the defensive end.

 

9. Pearson - Goodrow

 

Not much of a gap -- if anything Tanner put up better offensive numbers.

 

10. TB had Johnson, Maroon, and Ross Colton to round out the 12F. We have Sutter, MacEwen, and Motte (as well as Highmore).

 

I think Maroon brings size and toughness on a regular basis, something Mac hasn't been able to do just yet.  Johnson is overpaid and Sutter and Motte are better defensively.

 

Overall, not much difference in the make up of the roster up front. All we need is our young players to improve and reach their peak levels.

 

 

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Wow, can't remember a year that Canucks team changed so much, very exciting to see the new roster.

 

Our forward group looks intimidating on paper and we finally have a legitimate and threatening 3rd line which is an absolute requirement to succeed. Time will tell how well our forward group gel's with the new additions.

 

Our defense is also very interesting, skilled offensive puck movers that are point producers on the left and grit and size on the right. We just need our right side to to make clean tape to tape passes so that we spend the bulk of our time on the offense and not the defense. It's rare that a star player that wants out of a team picks only 2 teams and 1 of them is Vancouver, I'm expecting OEL to have a bounce back year and am super excited to have him despite the price tag.

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5 hours ago, steviewonder20 said:

I’ll admit that I wanted JB fired this year. I’m not a JB hater, but like many others on CDC and elsewhere, I saw him as a great scout but a terrible asset manager. The large number of over-paid bottom six folks weighed this team down, as did losing Toffoli.

 

The turnaround that he has accomplished in the past week is simply astounding. I don’t know if it is due to him learning from his past mistakes or having a better brain trust around him. Yes, there are risks, like OEL not significantly improving from his last two years. Yes, it would have been great to get a third for Holtby and a second for Nate; but the market determines value.

 

Dumping dead weight made these changes possible. With the upgraded roster, the addition of Podz, and anticipating a much improved defensive structure (thank you Shaw), I am more optimistic about our potential for success than I have been since 2011. 
 

Of course there is room for improvement, and some of our recent signings are short-term as they are placeholders. I would not be surprised if the Canucks improve in the standings, next season, more than any other team in the NHL. GCG and good job, JB.

Have to agree, I am wondering whether JB learned from his mistakes or if he just had a smarter supporting cast, I am amazed at what he has accomplished in the last week (along with resigning Ian Clarke & bringing in Shaw) and think this team is going to be way better! Hats off to a job well done Jim! Now let’s get the last 4 RFAs signed...

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We def bought our selves a new farm team lol. 
 

I kid I love how we signed 3 ACTUAL ! Right side Dman! That’s huge! Guys playing their natural side. Super stoked. Lots of depth on D.. big upgrade on depth. Skilled left side with a tough right side. 
 

 

when do the big two sign though? I’ve refreshed the Trade and Rumour page so many damn times… 

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I don't know if we're the most improved team, or on the rise, but I do have to say, we are better 'right now' than we were at the end of the season.  Our forward group is deeper and stronger.  OEL is a definite upgrade on Edler.  We have Hughes, Rathbone, OEL on the left, Myers, Hamonic, Poolman/Schenn on the backend, and Halak should be serviceable, tho his cap hit may end up, with the cap penalty of holtby...costing the same as keeping Holtby.

  We aren't moving Miller down the lineup, we can have a 3rd line of Hoglander Dickenson Podkholzin and that could be what makes or breaks this team's playoff aspirations, beyond injuries.  That line comes together, and gives 25-40 pts each, we're laughing.   The defense is a mystery, where I don't know where the points are really going to come from, and, it is important to get points from the backend.  Right now, we need 40 pts from both Hughes and OEL, 20 each from myers and hamonic, and 10-15 from the combination of whatever the hell the 3rd pairing is going to be.  First line has to give 60+ points each or a combination of that.  2nd line has to give 40-50 pts each.  4th line has to come in at 10+ pts each....  And you know what, I legitimately start to see most of that.  That isn't even really being a homer for my favourite team.  These are legitimate and achievable goals, and that could mean us really feasting on a weak division, and showing some surprise to the other teams.

  So, while I don't think we are the most improved team in the league, and I don't think personally that we have the depth to really be considered contenders, I do think we are able to legitimately think of being a playoff team.  And once we get there, we just have to be better than Toronto to be considered successful, right?

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4 minutes ago, Solinar said:

I don't know if we're the most improved team, or on the rise, but I do have to say, we are better 'right now' than we were at the end of the season.  Our forward group is deeper and stronger.  OEL is a definite upgrade on Edler.  We have Hughes, Rathbone, OEL on the left, Myers, Hamonic, Poolman/Schenn on the backend, and Halak should be serviceable, tho his cap hit may end up, with the cap penalty of holtby...costing the same as keeping Holtby.

  We aren't moving Miller down the lineup, we can have a 3rd line of Hoglander Dickenson Podkholzin and that could be what makes or breaks this team's playoff aspirations, beyond injuries.  That line comes together, and gives 25-40 pts each, we're laughing.   The defense is a mystery, where I don't know where the points are really going to come from, and, it is important to get points from the backend.  Right now, we need 40 pts from both Hughes and OEL, 20 each from myers and hamonic, and 10-15 from the combination of whatever the hell the 3rd pairing is going to be.  First line has to give 60+ points each or a combination of that.  2nd line has to give 40-50 pts each.  4th line has to come in at 10+ pts each....  And you know what, I legitimately start to see most of that.  That isn't even really being a homer for my favourite team.  These are legitimate and achievable goals, and that could mean us really feasting on a weak division, and showing some surprise to the other teams.

  So, while I don't think we are the most improved team in the league, and I don't think personally that we have the depth to really be considered contenders, I do think we are able to legitimately think of being a playoff team.  And once we get there, we just have to be better than Toronto to be considered successful, right?

Big thing is we can balance out D mins now that’s a definite upgrade 

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5 hours ago, Duodenum said:

Made a lot of changes but have to wait and see if it ends up with a better product on the ice.

 

Our forwards should be great.

Defense a disaster.

Goaltending solid.

 

So let's see if the forwards and goaltending can overcome our terrible defense.

I hate to say it, but this is likely the correct take. Love the forward group and the goaltending tandem looks solid, but that blueline is pretty atrocious. Plenty mobile, but they're constantly going to be fishing pucks out of their own net.

 

The sad thing is that I feel the blueline would look a hell of a lot better with just one really good shutdown defenseman that can play hard minutes against opposing teams top lines. As it stands our blueline is definitely a bottom ten and maybe even a bottom five blueline in the league imo.

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It really comes down to to what our two big RFA's take on their next deals.  We still need some more players, some more depth, and some cap space.  With the escrow clawback set the way it is for the next couple of years, would it be unreasonable to hope to sign both players to identical 2 year 7 million contracts, and let them earn the chance at the big money on their next contract, while that would leave our team more....cap flexible, but would also allow them to make more take home money?  And just think the love of the fans for the boys if they could come up big at the same time?  It would definitely throw some shade at Toronto, especially considering how their big four have become like an anchor wrapped around their necks in terms of playoff success and fielding a balanced team?

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4 hours ago, Duodenum said:

Well Hughes is bad defensively, Rathbone is a rookie, Myers is a #4-5, Poolman is a #6 dman, OEL hasn't performed well the last couple years and is a total wildcard, Schenn is a #6-7.

 

Myers is not gonna stay at home, that's not the player he is or ever has been.

 

We have no shutdown pairing and will bleed goals against. Our top 2 defensively sound defenders from last year are gone in Edler and Schmidt (Edler also our top pker). 

 

We'll be in the bottom 10 in goals against again unless Demko has a Vezina calibre season.

 

The stars all have to align to make this even an average dcorps. 

 

Our shutdown pairing will be Myers - OEL.  

 

Our defense is average.  Our offense looks to be top 10, and Demko - Halak should be a top 10 goalie tandem too.  

 

Jet Black Jim has built a great team and the biggest cost has been to Aquaman's wallet.  We are in great situation cap wise and Dylan Guenther is the only young player that we lost out on that matters.  

 

Now let's get to teaching Edmonton and Calgary a lesson this season. 

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5 minutes ago, Solinar said:

It really comes down to to what our two big RFA's take on their next deals.  We still need some more players, some more depth, and some cap space.  With the escrow clawback set the way it is for the next couple of years, would it be unreasonable to hope to sign both players to identical 2 year 7 million contracts, and let them earn the chance at the big money on their next contract, while that would leave our team more....cap flexible, but would also allow them to make more take home money?  And just think the love of the fans for the boys if they could come up big at the same time?  It would definitely throw some shade at Toronto, especially considering how their big four have become like an anchor wrapped around their necks in terms of playoff success and fielding a balanced team?

2x7 would be an overpayment IMO although it's tough to judge that on (formerly July 1st) the first day of free agency when all the crazy money gets handed out.  

 

Hughes would be looking at 2x5 and Elias would be 6.5x2 IMO.  

I'd prefer to go 4-5 years with both of them. 

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