[Discussion] Are the Canucks now a legitimate playoff team?

[Patel Bure]

3 hours ago, buddhahoodlum said:

What is this love affair some posters here have for collecting picks? If we trade Quinn and get back a first there's no guarantee he won't be a bust. You'll say but drafting is Benning's strong suit but he's had his share of misses too. Quinn is a known quantity, aka a potential star in the making. How many draft picks do we need to accumulate? 

It’s not about “a love affair” of collecting picks although it is important that Benning slowly starts recouping some of these picks over the coming years to ensure a healthy pipeline as to avoid falling off a Cliff as we did in 2014.  
 

It’s about doing our best in making sure that the Canucks win a championship with this core.  
 

As it stands right now, the Canucks aren’t going to have a lot of money to play with over the coming years once they extend Petey, Hughes, and Dickinson.   
 

https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/canucks

 

 

1) Luongo’s cap recapture freed up salary will go towards Holtby and Virtanen’s buyout money, and perhaps we’d have to lose someone like Motte in order to accommodate Boeser’s contract extension, etc.

 

2) On July 1st 2023, Hamonic’s and Miller’s salary will come off the books, but a lot of this money could go towards extending Hoglander, Horvat, etc.

 

The main point I’m trying to make right now is that most of our money that will be coming off the books over this coming year will basically be applied towards post ELC/RFA extensions (Hoglander, Podkolzin, Boeser, etc), and keeping integral Players together before they become UFA’s (Horvat).

 

Benning is basically building this current roster with a “finality” in mind, and I am of the belief that our defense is not where it needs to be.

 

OEL-Myers

Hughes-Hamonic

Rathbone-Poolman

 

Will have difficulty shutting down opponents even if they are highly successful in moving the puck up ice.  
 

If the Canucks want a shot of building a championship defense and championship roster, they will need to find a way of getting Tyler Myers off the books so that they can be freed of all bad contracts by July 1st 2022.......which can give them a shot of bringing in real difference makers such as Parayako or Klingberg.

 

Compare the above defense to the two defenses’ that I’m going to post below:

 

2022-2023:

 

A:

Graves-Klingberg 

OEL-Hamonic

Rathbone-Poolman

 

B:

OEL-Parayako

Graves-Hamonic

Rathbone-Poolman

 

Which two defense’s do you think are more likely to win the Canucks a championship?  Which defense do YOU think will have difficulty in shutting down opposing teams?

 

I am of the opinion that A and B from above are championship calibre defenses, and that finding a way to get Myers off the books will go a long way to ensuring that this happens. Unfortunately, given Myers’ term, getting Myers off the books will be a near impossible task (perhaps I’m wrong).  Hence my proposal where we’d.......

 

1) Recoup one of our 1sts

2) bring in a top pairing shut down dman

3) still have good puck movement from the back end in OEL and Rathbone

4) have a real shot of building a championship calibre defense one day.

 

Another way to look at is this:   What would you rather have if given the opportunity to have one of the following starting in October 1st 2022?

 

1) Hughes + Myers

 

OR

 

Graves + 1st + [Parayko or Klingberg]?

 

 

[iinatcc]

Canucks sure are different but I can't say they are a playoff team yet. Halak looks good on paper but the Canucks signings former Bruins players has been quite a bust Schaller, Bartkowski, and Eriksson so I'm not convinced Halak is going to be better than Holtby.

 

The reports about OEL from the Arizona media also has cause of concern. 

 

Poolman's term and money is too high for a player with limited offensive abilities and if he was brought in as a defensive defenseman, look at how much Bogosian's contact with Tampa in comparison.

 

And Luke Schenn and Brandon Sutter still beings memories of a bottom feeding Canuck team so I can't see how either two is going to make the team better

 

So maybe the team will be better but I can't commit to saying they are a playoff team yet. You have to imagine if these changes alone can bring the team up from a bottom feeder to being in playoff contention.

Edited July 29, 2021 by iinatcc

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, iinatcc said:

Canucks sure are different but I can't say they are a playoff team yet. Halak looks good on paper but the Canucks signings former Bruins players has been quite a bust Schaller, Bartkowski, and Eriksson so I'm not convinced Halak is going to be better than Holtby.

 

The reports about OEL from the Arizona media also has cause of concern. 

 

Poolman's term and money is too high for a player with limited offensive abilities and if he was brought in as a defensive defenseman, look at how much Bogosian's contact with Tampa in comparison.

 

And Luke Schenn and Brandon Sutter still beings memories of a bottom feeding Canuck team so I can't see how either two is going to make the team better

 

So maybe the team will be better but I can't commit to saying they are a playoff team yet 

We are easily a playoff team.  100+ points.  

[iinatcc]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

We are easily a playoff team.  100+ points.  

They could be a 100 point team but everything has to go absolutely right for this to happen. Garland living to his potential, OEL bouncing back, injury free Sutter, and Hamonic being even better than he was last season. 

 

Not to mention Boeser and Demko matching their performance the previous year and Pettersson and Hughes taking another step forward 

[eeeeergh]

8 hours ago, stawns said:

A lot of the usual suspects "concerned about the defense" and most of that predicated on the worst of all the players in the dcorp.  

 

"Myers is a train wreck"

"Only if OEL has a rebound year"

"Poolman was awful last year"

"Harmonic isnt really a top 4d"

 

Blah blah blah

 

I think they've built a solid dcorp with a mix of high offensive ability and solid, though not spectacular defensive dmen.  All backed a goalie who can absolutely shut the door when he's on.

 

I really don't see the doom and gloom.  

 

Myers is excellent as long as we aren't playing him outside his wheelhouse
OEL played really well in 2019-2020 when Phoenix iced a half decent team around him
Poolman was great in the playoffs
Hamonic is a great RHD who can play shutdown minutes against opponents top lines

 

We have more scoring, a more defensive-minded d-corps, a better backup goaltender, better defense coaching, and way more depth down our lineup.

No doom and gloom - a great year ahead!

[BPA]

@Patel Bure

 

There's something wrong with your proposal.  What if those free agents sign elsewhere?  Then what?

 

You then basically traded QH and Meyers for #1rd pick, Graves and cap space.

[Nucker 67]

A lot are criticizing the D, especially Poolman, for whatever reason. These guys haven't even played a game together yet.

 

Schmidt and Edler are gone, but Benning re-signed Hamonic, and brought in OEL, Poolman and Schenn. To me, that's better than last year. Edler and Schmidt were both pretty awful last year. 

 

Everyone has their own opinion, but the people that are complaining now, will be on that bandwagon midway through the season when the Canucks are dominating. 

[Nucker 67]

If there's a weak spot on this team, it's the 4th Line

 

Highmore - Sutter - Motte

 

Tenacious wingers, who lack size, and an aging, slow C

[Jai604]

3 hours ago, Patel Bure said:

Another way to look at is this:   What would you rather have if given the opportunity to have one of the following starting in October 1st 2022?

 

1) Hughes + Myers

 

OR

 

Graves + 1st + [Parayko or Klingberg]?

 

 

Easily the worst trade in recent Canucks memory if you actually pulled the trigger on that.

 

This entire plan is predicated on landing Parayko or Klingberg?  What if they don't hit FA or sign with another team?  There's a reason actual GMs don't make these kinds of trades.  Known quantities are always worth more than unknown quantities.  Every single time. When's the last time you saw a player of Quinn's caliber get traded for anything less than a 1st, multiple other picks and multiple players/prospects?

 

In your proposal:

 

Myers - cap dump

Hughes - sweetener?

 

Graves - Good shutdown defenseman (who you're vastly overrating)

Subban - cap dump

1st round pick - Unknown quantity.  Could be anywhere from a 3rd line player to a legit 1st liner to a complete bust.

some unknown chance of signing a big UFA

 

 

This could end up as trading Hughes and Myers for Graves and a 1st.  Would that acceptable return to you? 

[Jayinblack]

55 minutes ago, eeeeergh said:

Myers is excellent as long as we aren't playing him outside his wheelhouse
OEL played really well in 2019-2020 when Phoenix iced a half decent team around him
Poolman was great in the playoffs
Hamonic is a great RHD who can play shutdown minutes against opponents top lines

 

We have more scoring, a more defensive-minded d-corps, a better backup goaltender, better defense coaching, and way more depth down our lineup.

No doom and gloom - a great year ahead!

We'll be younger,  faster, more skilled, more aggressive, with a better defensive structure and better special teams (how long since we had a legit 2nd PP). 

 

Better schedule (more early practice together and rest at the start of the year), hopefully less covid/quarantine issues, a healthy Petey, and QH is over his sophmore slump.

Edited July 29, 2021 by Jayinblack

[DrJockitch]

I think with the changes we have made and just how awful the Pacific looks we can score our way out of trouble and into the playoffs. 
Our top 2 lines are probably better than the last two years and our third line may be one of the best we have ever had if Podz comes in looking as good as I think he will. 
I have no idea if this D will work or not. I suspect it will start out pretty poor as this is a lot of changes and it will take time for them to get settled and comfortable with each other. 
If OEL comes in and looks like legit number one D and Poolman is a good match for either him or Quinn then it leaves Myers in his natural third pairing role then I think it could be a really good exciting D, if we end up with OEL who struggles and Myers is playing up the rotation I think we are in trouble but trouble we can outscore in the regular season. 

[highwayman3]

A lot of hopium in this thread.  When the team is at or near the bottom in goals against, expected goals against and scoring chances against it will be interesting to see how folks spin it.  The defense is not playoff team caliber.  Next offseason if the team can find a way to get rid of Myers and sign one of Murphy or Parayko (both will be UFA's) it will be in much better shape.  

Edited July 29, 2021 by highwayman3

[Jayinblack]

1 minute ago, highwayman3 said:

A lot of hopium in this thread.  When the team is at or near the bottom in goals against, expected goals against and scoring chances against it will be interesting to see how folks spin it.  The defense is not playoff team caliber.  Next offseason if the team can find a way to get rid of Myers and sign one of Murphy or Parayko (both will be UFA's) it will be in much better shape.  

A lot went wrong for the team last year, i dont exepect to the same extent this year.   Add to that how much better the roster as a whole improved and i see no way we arent competing for the playoffs (which i think we make)

[cdgraham]

15 hours ago, Lil B From The Pack said:

maybe if OEL has a rebound season. otherwise no

Lol I don't think it hinges on just that 

[cdgraham]

14 minutes ago, highwayman3 said:

A lot of hopium in this thread.  When the team is at or near the bottom in goals against, expected goals against and scoring chances against it will be interesting to see how folks spin it.  The defense is not playoff team caliber.  Next offseason if the team can find a way to get rid of Myers and sign one of Murphy or Parayko (both will be UFA's) it will be in much better shape.  

I think it's an average defense corps. ( With above average forwards, and above average goaltending duo) so I think playoffs will be reached

[Lil B From The Pack]

4 minutes ago, cdgraham said:

Lol I don't think it hinges on just that 

Just my thoughts. We're all unique and different on how we think.

[wallstreetamigo]

This is where we will see what Green and Baumgartner really are as coaches. With so many roster changes, how the pieces are fit together is what will determine where the team ends up.

[Patel Bure]

22 minutes ago, highwayman3 said:

A lot of hopium in this thread.  When the team is at or near the bottom in goals against, expected goals against and scoring chances against it will be interesting to see how folks spin it.  The defense is not playoff team caliber.  Next offseason if the team can find a way to get rid of Myers and sign one of Murphy or Parayko (both will be UFA's) it will be in much better shape.  

Agreed 100%

 

Here is my concern with regards to how Benning views this team:

 

OEL-Myers (TWD-OFD):  

Hughes-Hamonic:  (OFD-DFD):  

Rathbone-Poolman:  (OFD-DFD)

 

The impression that I get from this D configuration is that Benning is VERY sold on OEL returning to his 2015-2016 form in which he was an elite two defenseman.  Is it possible that OEL completely reinvigorates his game due to increased motivation in a new environment?  Yes.  However, I’m just not sure if OEL and Myers as a unit can be good enough defensively.  
 

Having said all that, I do agree with some other posters that criticized my “Hughes and Myers to NJ” proposal since Parayako or Klingberg aren’t guaranteed to sign with us in the summer of 2022.  Thinking about it further, I also don’t like the idea of getting rid of Hughes since OEL won’t be in his prime for much longer while Rathbone, while promising, is by no means a lock.  We will need Quinn Hughes.

 

Maybe Rathbone or Juolevi as a sweetener to move Myers in a “hockey deal” might be the best solution moving forward if this newly constructed defense doesn’t pan out.

[Patel Bure]

2 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

This is where we will see what Green and Baumgartner really are as coaches. With so many roster changes, how the pieces are fit together is what will determine where the team ends up.

Brad Shaw replaced Baumer did he not?  You are correct however (re - what kind of coaches).  

[DrJockitch]

8 minutes ago, Patel Bure said:

Brad Shaw replaced Baumer did he not?  You are correct however (re - what kind of coaches).  

Baumer is still the D coach.  Shaw is the associate coach so he will work with Baumer but has more of an overall role.