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Thoughts on Jimbo's moves and this off-season

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1 hour ago, Josepho said:

OEL has a worse contract then all of those guys, so yes I'd prefer any of them.

 

Doing that trade for Brenden Dillon would've been smarter. Maybe would've offered St. Louis something for Vince Dunn. Winnipeg had Demelo exposed, possibly could've offered some sort of package for him. Not that I would've liked this move, but I would probably rather offer Martinez a big deal than give one to OEL. Guys like Hakanpaa and Pysyk are going for far better deals than Poolman.

 

A GM never HAS to make a move.

 

What "reliable players at reasonable costs" are you referring to? I'm not complaining about contracts like Schenn/Hunt.

First off, it's safe to say the latest FA signings involving Barrie, Hamilton, Ceci are overpaid. By nature, they are, because they have a bigger name attached to them. So you've COMPLAINED about overpaying in previous signings, and now you would've added them. Really?

 

Also, FYI, Dougie Hamilton joins Devils on $63 million, 7-year deal - so no, OEL doesn't have a 'worse' contract than all of those guys. Tyson Barrie plays pretty sketchy defense and would not have helped the Canucks, period. The fact that you're advocating for these 'big name' UFAs contradicts your previous complaints. Not to mention, you've demonstrated your bias.

 

I don't know what the market was for the other players, but Martinez was most likely never considered by the Canucks due to his past behavioural history.

 

Hamonic isn't overpaid - he's a known entity for Hughes, and did an admirable job last year on a cheap contract. He's proven. I don't see a problem with this signing at all. While Poolman is the most contentious signing of the FA, he is only 28 with low mileage, and had a very good playoff series with WIN. He might not be top 4 material, but at 2.5, it's a cheap option.

 

In terms of reasonable signings, Benning has made a statement this offseason in contrast to his previous 'overpaying' seasons. The fact that you can't see these differences is a concern.

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2 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

First off, it's safe to say the latest FA signings involving Barrie, Hamilton, Ceci are overpaid. By nature, they are, because they have a bigger name attached to them. So you've COMPLAINED about overpaying in previous signings, and now you would've added them. Really?

 

Also, FYI, Dougie Hamilton joins Devils on $63 million, 7-year deal - so no, OEL doesn't have a 'worse' contract than all of those guys. Tyson Barrie plays pretty sketchy defense and would not have helped the Canucks, period. The fact that you're advocating for these 'big name' UFAs contradicts your previous complaints. Not to mention, you've demonstrated your bias.

 

I don't know what the market was for the other players, but Martinez was most likely never considered by the Canucks due to his past behavioural history.

 

Hamonic isn't overpaid - he's a known entity for Hughes, and did an admirable job last year on a cheap contract. He's proven. I don't see a problem with this signing at all. While Poolman is the most contentious signing of the FA, he is only 28 with low mileage, and had a very good playoff series with WIN. He might not be top 4 material, but at 2.5, it's a cheap option.

 

In terms of reasonable signings, Benning has made a statement this offseason in contrast to his previous 'overpaying' seasons. The fact that you can't see these differences is a concern.

I never said I would've added Ceci/Barrie, I said I would've preferred them to what we did. However, I would absolutely rather have Dougie Hamilton at his contract than OEL and it's not even close. Dougie is more productive, way better defensively, and younger. Hamilton received a ton of Norris votes this year. Additionally, OEL's defence is extremely sketchy as well. He's likely going to get scored on a ton here.

 

I've googled Martinez and found nothing about any sort of "behavioural history". Am I missing something here?

 

Hamonic is slightly overpaid for a bottom pairing guy. He did fine last year but if he's asking for 3M AAV you show him the door. 2.5 isn't cheap for a player who hasn't been able to play more than bottom pairing minutes in his career. We've already seen Benning get burned for overpaying at the bottom of his lineup, we can't have it happen again.

 

All of these arguments seem to hinge on how OEL is valued as a player. I think it'll be pretty obvious that he isn't an all-situations 1D anymore when he comes here.

 

 

 

 

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Hamonic is slightly over paid. Maybe, but I think he has it in him to rise to that level if he stays healthy.

 

What I think was a hit for Jim is the term of the deal.

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Does anyone else think Uncle Jim has any concerns over that OEL long, long term - high $ - contract ?  Or, is he just playing it short term now to save his behind - knowing he'll likely not even be here in a few years when that contract potentially turns into the new LE deal ?

 

 Personality Radio Lessons From Wile E. Coyote - Tracy Johnson Media Group

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Obviously JB, and likely TG see something left in OEL's tank.  JB tried to acquire him last off-season and failed.  This time he succeeded in what I think will be as significant of a trade as the one that netted Miller.  In his interview with Vancouver media, Garland talked about what a weight being on the trading block was for OEL, and how it affected his game.  Phoenix as a hockey city sucks for a variety of reasons, low fan interest, constant questions as to whether the franchise will survive, never feels like a hockey destination, bad coaching, bad management.  Is it any wonder a star player would have little interest in busting a gut for such a franchise.  As I mentioned in another thread, I'm sure TG and Brad Shaw had input on the OEL and Poolman deals.  OEL is a proven leader, a guy who our young guys will look up to.  I'm sure EP and Hogs will be happy to have another Swede on the team, and maybe that can replace the relationship EP had with Markey, because EP seemed depressed at the start of last season.  OEL will hopefully provide a big brother/on ice coach type relationship with both EP and QH.  For QH, early in OEL's career he played a similar type of game as Hughes does.  Most importantly, OEL will be able to eat up some of those minutes TG was using Hughes for, which will keep him fresher long-term.  People complain about QH's +/- but don't forget, he was always on the ice for the last three our four minutes of games were the team was down and pressing, and often gave up odd-man chances and late goals.  That hurt his stats.  OEL will take-on some of those minutes.

 

I love the Garland acquisition, he will make the whole team better as he improves the top six, and either Hogs or Pearson will improve the third line, and the cascade effect will make the fourth line more competitive.  Also, the Garland contract is very fair.

 

As for Poolman, again, I'm sure TG and Shaw had input.  It's a very fair contract for a 26-year-old right side Dman.  He provides some much needed size and a stay-at-home mentality on the back end, and has the capacity to move up and down the lineup as needed.  Is he a true top-4?  Maybe not right now, but with Shaw's system and coaching, that could very well change.  We know that he played some top four minutes with decent success in Winnipeg.  

 

I love the Sutter and Halak contracts, they are very fair for aging vets playing the roles they will play.  I'm hoping we see a healthy Sutter for the entire season, but Jim has signed some options in Abby.    

 

Honestly, I think JB gets a B+/A-, he improved the team without blowing the budget he will need to sign QH and EP.

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1 minute ago, RU SERIOUS said:

I am certainly happy to see ALL of the dumped players gone - every one of them.   He almost got it perfect - except for maintaining Sutter.  But for a cost of $1.1M  it's not the end of the world, so when he gets circles skated around himself again this year by most of the opponents, they can simply send him down & way out in the Back End of the Valley in Abbotsford. 

As for the pick-ups, they appear on paper as reasonable - except for OEL which I am very concerned about as becoming our eventual new LE type contract.   Unless he is superman, I expect that contract to haunt us in 3-4 years, when he approaches his mid 30's and suspect uncle Jim is worried a bit about that decision too - but maybe doesn't care because he'll likely be gone by then and is simply playing the short term game now to save his ^$$ from being terminated. 

 

The other concerning matter is the sacrafice that Jim has made to get us to where we are today by essentially wiping out two years of drafting potential (this years and last) by giving away all those top end draft picks.  That will certainly cost us in a few years when we look to rejuvinate our roster but have very few assets in the cupboard as these past two draft years will likely leave not a single NHL calibre player in the pipeline.

 

On the whole, I would expect these changes to certainly get us in the playoffs but not make any serious damage in them and should at least - in the short term - offer a bit more hope than the past seven years of failure under Uncle Jim's regime.  So for that I'll give him a C-

You do realize OEL just turned 30 two weeks ago, and will only be 35 when this contract is done, right?  The guy was the best Arizona player in the bubble.  He’s excited to play again.  He’s going to be great!  

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33 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

Also, FYI, Dougie Hamilton joins Devils on $63 million, 7-year deal - so no, OEL doesn't have a 'worse' contract than all of those guys. 

Seriously, you are very biased... We all would droole if we got Hamilton for that kind of money because he is RHD.

 

As a LHD we can pick up a lot of players line Fantenberg at 750k that does the job Edlerlite. 

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am certainly happy to see ALL of the dumped players gone - every one of them.   He almost got it perfect - except for maintaining Sutter.  But for a cost of $1.1M  it's not the end of the world, so when he gets circles skated around himself again this year by most of the opponents, they can simply send him down & way out in the Back End of the Valley in Abbotsford. 

As for the pick-ups, they appear on paper as reasonable - except for OEL which I am very concerned about as becoming our eventual new LE type contract.   Unless he is superman, I expect that contract to haunt us in 3-4 years, when he approaches his mid 30's and suspect uncle Jim is worried a bit about that decision too - but maybe doesn't care because he'll likely be gone by then and is simply playing the short term game now to save his ^$$ from being terminated. 

 

The other concerning matter is the sacrafice that Jim has made to get us to where we are today by essentially wiping out two years of drafting potential (this years and last) by giving away all those top end draft picks.  That will certainly cost us in a few years when we look to rejuvinate our roster but have very few assets in the cupboard as these past two draft years will likely leave not a single NHL calibre player in the pipeline.

 

On the whole, I would expect these changes to certainly get us in the playoffs but not make any serious damage in them and should at least - in the short term - offer a bit more hope than the past seven years of failure under Uncle Jim's regime.  So for that I'll give him a C-

 

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9 minutes ago, Alflives said:

You do realize OEL just turned 30 two weeks ago, and will only be 35 when this contract is done, right?  The guy was the best Arizona player in the bubble.  He’s excited to play again.  He’s going to be great!  

I am not necessarily disputing his short term potential - rather the possibility that he fades away in a few years as he beomes older.   Very, very few players can maintain $7M worth of output in their mid 30's (if they're even still in the leaugue).  

 

Just being realistic - but I hope I am wrong.

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14 minutes ago, RU SERIOUS said:

Does anyone else think Uncle Jim has any concerns over that OEL long, long term - high $ - contract ?  Or, is he just playing it short term now to save his behind - knowing he'll likely not even be here in a few years when that contract potentially turns into the new LE deal ?

 

 Personality Radio Lessons From Wile E. Coyote - Tracy Johnson Media Group

What makes this a deal like the Eriksson deal? How are they similar? 

 

To me, Eriksson's deal was horrible, no doubt. The true low point of all the FA signings. The contract was far too rich for a winger in decline, and (in my opinion) became truly horrible when it was clear that Eriksson was merely coasting to collect a paycheck. 

 

Ekman-Larsson, while a 30 year old defenseman, is still a very productive and capable player who's been playing in a very unproductive environment. The Coyotes are a mess and have been for some time. 

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37 minutes ago, Josepho said:

I never said I would've added Ceci/Barrie, I said I would've preferred them to what we did. However, I would absolutely rather have Dougie Hamilton at his contract than OEL and it's not even close. Dougie is more productive, way better defensively, and younger. Hamilton received a ton of Norris votes this year. Additionally, OEL's defence is extremely sketchy as well. He's likely going to get scored on a ton here.

 

I've googled Martinez and found nothing about any sort of "behavioural history". Am I missing something here?

 

Hamonic is slightly overpaid for a bottom pairing guy. He did fine last year but if he's asking for 3M AAV you show him the door. 2.5 isn't cheap for a player who hasn't been able to play more than bottom pairing minutes in his career. We've already seen Benning get burned for overpaying at the bottom of his lineup, we can't have it happen again.

 

All of these arguments seem to hinge on how OEL is valued as a player. I think it'll be pretty obvious that he isn't an all-situations 1D anymore when he comes here.

 

 

 

 

Never mind about Martinez. I erred in mixing him up with Voynov.

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6 hours ago, IBatch said:

Letting players "walk" only happens if the don't have a NTC/NMC.    It also needs to looked at from what result occurred because we "let them all walk"...that is 17 playoff type games, fourth most in history...and even without MIN then still as many as the Sedins ever managed other then our fun to the final.    A team cant rebuilt forever ... even though it takes a decade now for a top team to recover after been a top team.    I agree we can't judge yet though.   But i'm sure if we threw out our pool, a couple firsts too, to jam in the exact same team that was thrashed by Vegas that would have been suicide as far as the next steps go.   JB took the hard but right route - not the easy one he already had.    Not sure it was the right path yet myself yet either, but for sure better then losing Demko, keeping JM, Tanev, TT etc.   Because we'd have zero cap left for anyone.   The team we have now is younger, and on paper at least, a better one.    Hopefully it all works out. 

We let these players walk because we could've retained them if we really wanted to.  I think all of them were pretty open about wanting to stay.  For some (Marky and Tanev), the UFA offers from other teams were deemed too high to match.  For others (Tofu and Tony), they left because Vancouver showed little interest, and openly expressed disappointment in leaving.  Their departures and an overall failure to replace them made it predictable for the Canucks to founder this past season.

 

The whole thing has made the Canucks a giant question mark.  The new teammates struggled to gel, players got sick, and our key guys (except Boeser) had a rough year.  With the roster moves made, and a proper summer and training camp, I think it's reasonable to expect improvements.  There should be better chemistry, the players shouldn't be ravaged by covid, and everyone should bounce back.  But it takes consistency to even start being considered contenders.  That doesn't happen by missing the playoffs more often than not.

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11 minutes ago, Timråfan said:

Seriously, you are very biased... We all would droole if we got Hamilton for that kind of money because he is RHD.

 

As a LHD we can pick up a lot of players line Fantenberg at 750k that does the job Edlerlite. 

Really? The guy who defended Dahlen tooth and nail is calling ME biased? :rolleyes:

 


Reading the comments of people here, some think this is going to be PK 2.0.

I'm not convinced it's a great signing, but it's definitely a splash.

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2 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

Really? The guy who defended Dahlen tooth and nail is calling ME biased? :rolleyes:

 


Reading the comments of people here, some think this is going to be PK 2.0.

I'm not convinced it's a great signing, but it's definitely a splash.

Well, pointwise he is miles ahead of OEL. 

1,8 mill more for a RHD that also gets more points is cheap. 

And the Dahlen thingy have I explained a lot but it seems you can't understand. 

I can't help you more. :sadno:

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2 hours ago, Bertuzzipunch said:

So JP thinks jim aint done trading. Wouldnt be surprised if he deals jouveli trying to get a 2nd or something. 

I read flames are desperate for a d and missed on few in free agency olli juolevi 2022 3rd to flames for mangiapane then it’s gets an a plus offseason 

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1 hour ago, Josepho said:

I never said I would've added Ceci/Barrie, I said I would've preferred them to what we did. However, I would absolutely rather have Dougie Hamilton at his contract than OEL and it's not even close. Dougie is more productive, way better defensively, and younger. Hamilton received a ton of Norris votes this year. Additionally, OEL's defence is extremely sketchy as well. He's likely going to get scored on a ton here.

 

I've googled Martinez and found nothing about any sort of "behavioural history". Am I missing something here?

 

Hamonic is slightly overpaid for a bottom pairing guy. He did fine last year but if he's asking for 3M AAV you show him the door. 2.5 isn't cheap for a player who hasn't been able to play more than bottom pairing minutes in his career. We've already seen Benning get burned for overpaying at the bottom of his lineup, we can't have it happen again.

 

All of these arguments seem to hinge on how OEL is valued as a player. I think it'll be pretty obvious that he isn't an all-situations 1D anymore when he comes here.

 

 

 

 

This is a perfect example of Ukrainian saying, that loosely translates like “I’ll s h i t myself but won’t give up”. No matter how much you are being shown that you are pushing different agendas on different topics, you never give up and keep on digging in. If in your world Hamilton is worth $9 mil per year - you must be smoking something really good.
 

Hamonic is not a 3rd pairing guy. Until last year he was on a 3.8 mil contract and only took a discount last year due to COVID and family reasons. $3 mil is a good price for this type of player in current market. You are taking his temporary struggles at the beginning of the season, after injury and without training camp - and transpose it on his entire career. Of course you can do it, but you will be in a very special group of people who mainly consist of fans of Vancouver toxic media.

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1 hour ago, Josepho said:

I never said I would've added Ceci/Barrie, I said I would've preferred them to what we did. However, I would absolutely rather have Dougie Hamilton at his contract than OEL and it's not even close. Dougie is more productive, way better defensively, and younger. Hamilton received a ton of Norris votes this year. Additionally, OEL's defence is extremely sketchy as well. He's likely going to get scored on a ton here.

 

I've googled Martinez and found nothing about any sort of "behavioural history". Am I missing something here?

 

Hamonic is slightly overpaid for a bottom pairing guy. He did fine last year but if he's asking for 3M AAV you show him the door. 2.5 isn't cheap for a player who hasn't been able to play more than bottom pairing minutes in his career. We've already seen Benning get burned for overpaying at the bottom of his lineup, we can't have it happen again.

 

All of these arguments seem to hinge on how OEL is valued as a player. I think it'll be pretty obvious that he isn't an all-situations 1D anymore when he comes here.

 

 

 

 

I watched a lot of Dougie in Cgy... I think you are paying for the hype... 

He's not as good as the stats from this year. 

I don't think 9m for 7 years is good value at all....if you have an issue with OEL contract, Dougie is heading towards an even worse contract... 

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48 minutes ago, Timråfan said:

Well, pointwise he is miles ahead of OEL. 

1,8 mill more for a RHD that also gets more points is cheap. 

And the Dahlen thingy have I explained a lot but it seems you can't understand. 

I can't help you more. :sadno:

:picard:

 

image.thumb.png.508e862c1b0b4c06a66d515ee42665de.png

 

vs.

 

OEL

 

image.thumb.png.f7f7f1728794cf485e2b5c74102cb707.png

 

 

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