Thoughts on Jimbo's moves and this off-season

[CanucksJay]

Everyone who is advocating a Hamilton signing right now would also be the same ones that wanted OEL 2 seasons ago. 

2 years ago, OEL would have been 28 (same age as Hamilton now) and finished with 0.5 pts/gm on a crappy coyotes team and signed an 8.25m contract in a non flat cap era. 

I find it amusing that you guys would want Dougie for 9m for the next 7 seasons in a flat cap world... 

I don't see this contract ending well... 

 

Edited July 30, 2021 by CanucksJay

[Timråfan]

58 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

 

 

vs.

 

OEL

 

 

 

I’m not sure why you show how bad OEL was compared to Hamilton. 
Thanks for proving my point. Wise of you. 

[CanucksJay]

3 minutes ago, Timråfan said:

I’m not sure why you show how bad OEL was compared to Hamilton. 
Thanks for proving my point. Wise of you. 

You don't find it strange that at 28 years old, he's already on his 4th team (switching teams every 3 years)? 

If he's so good, why don't the teams keep him? 

Wouldn't a team want to keep their franchise D man at all costs? 

Does he not fit in the locker room? 

 

 

[Timråfan]

Just now, CanucksJay said:

You don't find it strange that at 28 years old, he's already on his 4th team (switching teams every 3 years)? 

If he's so good, why don't the teams keep him? 

Wouldn't a team want to keep their franchise D man at all costs? 

Does he not fit in the locker room? 

 

 

I didn’t argue anything of what you talk about.

Just that Hamilton for 9 mill is definately a better player for us as RHD than OEL for 7 at LHD. 
RHD is much more expensive and Hamilton have a much better ppg. 

[CanucksJay]

9 minutes ago, Timråfan said:

I didn’t argue anything of what you talk about.

Just that Hamilton for 9 mill is definately a better player for us as RHD than OEL for 7 at LHD. 
RHD is much more expensive and Hamilton have a much better ppg. 

I think Hamilton is one of those guys that got super lucky and capitalized huge on a contract year. 

I think his contract is also very risky. 

I see OEL as an upgrade from Schmidt. Yes it'd be nice if Arizona retained more cap and he was a 6m player but my thought is that giving someone like Hamilton a 63m 7 year contract when he's never played more than 3 years on a single team is trouble down the road. It's not just about pts / game or being a gm would be a no brainer... 

[MikeyD]

6 hours ago, Dazzle said:

If you watch the highlights, you'll see Garland drives to the hard areas. Guy is fearless, like Hoglander. His play will rub off on A LOT of players.

And it's interesting because Garland is actually 5'8, not 5'10. He confirms this size difference in the interview, but you'd NEVER see this size concern from last season's clips.

 

 

I just want to know how he drives plays and that's not something that you can get a huge grasp on in those clips. Once you get to the 5 million dollar aav mark I like to see some play driving ability to go along with the quick thinking and raw talent. I think that's where sometimes guys like Bo and Brock sometimes irritate me. They have the ability to drive the play and then other times become reliant on their talent and don't quite control play the way I know they're capable of. I'd rather prefer guys with less skill but have a higher impact on the game in guys like Hoglander, Motte, etc. that are capable of dragging the team into a battle than over guys who have all the skill, but tend to load up on multipoint games or are more effective on the powerplay and not as much 5v5.

 

I'm really excited to see how he fits into the system. 

[Timråfan]

3 minutes ago, CanucksJay said:

I think Hamilton is one of those guys that got super lucky and capitalized huge on a contract year. 

I think his contract is also very risky. 

I see OEL as an upgrade from Schmidt. Yes it'd be nice if Arizona retained more cap and he was a 6m player but my thought is that giving someone like Hamilton a 63m 7 year contract when he's never played more than 3 years on a single team is trouble down the road. It's not just about pts / game or being a gm would be a no brainer... 

well, he did a lot of points while also 20 plus.

Changing teams can also indicate RHD is very sought after so teams try to top each other more often. 

[JM_]

4 hours ago, CanucksJay said:

What did JP say?

it was in response to Dhaliwal I think, just that Barry thought Jim may not be done yet and might be looking at trades. 

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, Timråfan said:

I didn’t argue anything of what you talk about.

Just that Hamilton for 9 mill is definately a better player for us as RHD than OEL for 7 at LHD. 
RHD is much more expensive and Hamilton have a much better ppg. 

Power play goal?   I think what you, and way too many folks mean, is PGP (points per games played).    I see this all the time.   So blah.   Hamilton would have been nice, but he has to want to actually play here.   

[canuckleheads fan]

56 minutes ago, Timråfan said:

I didn’t argue anything of what you talk about.

Just that Hamilton for 9 mill is definately a better player for us as RHD than OEL for 7 at LHD. 
RHD is much more expensive and Hamilton have a much better ppg. 

Perhaps the difference beyond stats is that one is a proven leader in and out of the locker room, will be a great example for our young players, and a slice of home for EP and NH; while the other is an apparent locker room problem who has obviously worn out his welcome during three-year stretches with three different teams, who in spite of his putting up great stats, have had limited interest in retaining him.  It's interesting that he was great in Calgary in the mid-teens, just as they were building their young core and getting ready to compete.  You'd have thought if he was worth retaining they would tried to hang onto him as what appeared to be a foundational player, yet, buh bye.  

[IBatch]

3 hours ago, Bob.Loblaw said:

We let these players walk because we could've retained them if we really wanted to.  I think all of them were pretty open about wanting to stay.  For some (Marky and Tanev), the UFA offers from other teams were deemed too high to match.  For others (Tofu and Tony), they left because Vancouver showed little interest, and openly expressed disappointment in leaving.  Their departures and an overall failure to replace them made it predictable for the Canucks to founder this past season.

 

The whole thing has made the Canucks a giant question mark.  The new teammates struggled to gel, players got sick, and our key guys (except Boeser) had a rough year.  With the roster moves made, and a proper summer and training camp, I think it's reasonable to expect improvements.  There should be better chemistry, the players shouldn't be ravaged by covid, and everyone should bounce back.  But it takes consistency to even start being considered contenders.  That doesn't happen by missing the playoffs more often than not.

By design, both Tanev and Markstrom were given deals that would work for the team first.   It for sure would have been a lot easier to sell what's left of our pool to cram them in.   And where exactly would we be now if we did?  Up sh!t creek without a paddle.   I said before the bubble was over to let all FOUR walk.   80 million over 4-6 years is why.   We'd be totally screwed this year trying to sign any of our RFAs.   Lost Demko, lost Hogd and Podz and a first or two as well.   And stuck with the same old some old literally old.    OEL isn't a great consulation prize - but nobody complained about Edlers cap last year (just Myers and Schmidt's).   I had zero issue with last season not one bit.   I'm glad we don't have those guys still on the team because not one of them were a factor in the Vegas series.    And they won't get any better will they. 

[Timråfan]

8 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Power play goal?   I think what you, and way too many folks mean, is PGP (points per games played).    I see this all the time.   So blah.   Hamilton would have been nice, but he has to want to actually play here.   

Again, what have this with what I talked about?

[Timråfan]

6 minutes ago, canuckleheads fan said:

Perhaps the difference beyond stats is that one is a proven leader in and out of the locker room, will be a great example for our young players, and a slice of home for EP and NH; while the other is an apparent locker room problem who has obviously worn out his welcome during three-year stretches with three different teams, who in spite of his putting up great stats, have had limited interest in retaining him.  It's interesting that he was great in Calgary in the mid-teens, just as they were building their young core and getting ready to compete.  You'd have thought if he was worth retaining they would tried to hang onto him as what appeared to be a foundational player, yet, buh bye.  

And this isn't what I talked about either.

 

But I'm interested in the real reasons why he shifted clubs.

 

Should we argue why Garland shift club also?

He left the Coyotes after three year. 

After he won the heart of the fans... 

Hamilton makes around double the ppg as Myers. Is he worth 12 mill then?

[SilentSam]

25 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

it was in response to Dhaliwal I think, just that Barry thought Jim may not be done yet and might be looking at trades. 

The Flames have 12m capspace , and have 6 roster positions to sign, including RFA Zadorov.

we know how BTreliving likes Canuck players..

[bigbadcanucks]

4 hours ago, Josepho said:

I never said I would've added Ceci/Barrie, I said I would've preferred them to what we did. However, I would absolutely rather have Dougie Hamilton at his contract than OEL and it's not even close. Dougie is more productive, way better defensively, and younger. Hamilton received a ton of Norris votes this year. Additionally, OEL's defence is extremely sketchy as well. He's likely going to get scored on a ton here.

 

I've googled Martinez and found nothing about any sort of "behavioural history". Am I missing something here?

 

Hamonic is slightly overpaid for a bottom pairing guy. He did fine last year but if he's asking for 3M AAV you show him the door. 2.5 isn't cheap for a player who hasn't been able to play more than bottom pairing minutes in his career. We've already seen Benning get burned for overpaying at the bottom of his lineup, we can't have it happen again.

 

All of these arguments seem to hinge on how OEL is valued as a player. I think it'll be pretty obvious that he isn't an all-situations 1D anymore when he comes here.

You need to do a little fact checking before you make comments that make you sound like all you're expressing is your opinion.

 

Hamonic over his career is a 21:58 per game player.  His ice time was at an all-time low this past season at 19:22 per game, and that is attributable to his low minutes at the beginning of the season and the first 4-5 games when he returned from injury due to conditioning issues.  His 15+ months away from hockey clearly hurt him until the second half of this season, when he started to find his game, only to be derailed by stoppage due to COVID-19.

 

His history indicates CLEARLY he is a top 4 d-man.  I'm certain that we saw the the worst of Hamonic this past season and that he's going to prove to be a valuable player for the Canucks this coming season.  He was a workhorse for the Islanders and logged difficult minutes for the Flames.

 

Defencemen do not regress in their early 30s.  In fact, most are in their prime from the ages of 27 to 33.  By all accounts, the Canucks have Hamonic for the last two peak years of his career for a $3M cap hit.  Hamonic at his cap hit and term is a bargain.

[JM_]

14 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

The Flames have 12m capspace , and have 6 roster positions to sign, including RFA Zadorov.

we know how BTreliving likes Canuck players..

you jest, but I don't think anythings off the table for Jim right now 

[Phat Fingers]

I love the shifted cash to key positions and looks to be a career defining off season plan and almost bi polar to previous off seasons.  
 

say what you may about Jimbo as arm chair GMs, he has the ability and humility to learn from his mistakes.  
 

this has been a future building off-season by not throwing good money after bad.  
 

please don’t get cocky JB.  

[Nicklas Bo Hunter]

I think the Canucks should consider trading Pearson. I think he has some value and honestly they could likely sign gusev for less who would help bring up podkolzin

 

Trade Pearson for a pick and sign gusev for 2 mil saves 1 mil cap. 

 

Miller pettersson Boeser

Hoglander horvat garland

Gusev Dickinson podkolzin

Petan Sutter Motte 

 

 

[CanucksJay]

52 minutes ago, Timråfan said:

And this isn't what I talked about either.

 

But I'm interested in the real reasons why he shifted clubs.

 

Should we argue why Garland shift club also?

He left the Coyotes after three year. 

After he won the heart of the fans... 

Hamilton makes around double the ppg as Myers. Is he worth 12 mill then?

Garland is a great example. This is his first move away from the team that drafted him. He's been in Arizona's system for 5 years. He has now signed a 5 year deal with the Canucks at 25 years old. If he stays in Vancouver 3 years, he would already have moved half the amount Dougie has. If he is moved 2 more times in the next 3 years, just like Dougie, I would question whether there are locker room or fit issues

[IBatch]

2 hours ago, CanucksJay said:

You don't find it strange that at 28 years old, he's already on his 4th team (switching teams every 3 years)? 

If he's so good, why don't the teams keep him? 

Wouldn't a team want to keep their franchise D man at all costs? 

Does he not fit in the locker room? 

 

 

You need to pay more attention.   He was getting offer sheeted from Calgary, instead Boston made the trade to get a better pick.  In CAR he was part of a real hockey trade.    Now he's a UFA.   Hamilton is three years younger and has played a lot better hockey then AP has over the last four years.   Better then almost any D let alone RHDs.   I'd have loved to have him in fact started making posts suggesting a year ago we should consider saving money for Hamilton (especially over going after AP, sorry aside from being tall, his series against us wasn't that good).   What happens next we will have to wait and see.    He's about as young a UFA as you can hope for (again three years younger then AP in his walk year), and still has his peak prime waiting for another team to enjoy.   Top 5 x 5 producer....sure would be nice to have him on our team, instead we get OEL who's almost a project at this point and a LHD.   Oh well have to pay to play.   I'm surprised he went to NJ and so quickly too.   Seth Jones lol.  Suck it CHI