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Michael ferlund retires?

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2 hours ago, HKSR said:

I'm not gonna be convinced that LTIR is black and white a negative thing.  If if wasn't for LTIR, Tampa would not have won the cup this past year.  That's enough proof for me that if utilized correctly, LTIR is a huge advantage.  If you can convince me that Tampa would have been able to ice the roster that they did this past year WITHOUT LTIR, I'm all ears.

 

 

It did help them but this coming season Kucherov is back healthy and having Seabrook is going to limit them.  Like having Ferland limits Vancouver.

 

Tampa didn't gain anything by having Nilsson and Gaborik but it helped make the Paquette/Coburn trade. 

 

LTIR did help Tampa because it was Kucherov.  By having Kucherov on LTIR they were able to access his cap space - like Vancouver can access Ferland's cap space.

 

Operating in LTIR is a negative but in this case the negative was counter-balanced by being able to get their best player back for the playoffs.  Because he was unavailable for the full season they didn't have to bother to make the necessary roster movements to clear 9.5M in cap space.

 

Tampa got lucky with Kucherov.  That surgery (labrum tear in the hip) is normally a 5 to 6 month recovery time and he was able to return after 4.5 months - season lasting only 4 months helped them too.   There's been several precedents over the years including this past year.   Seguin needed 6 months.  Pastrnak was given also 5 months but like Kucherov returned after 4.5 months.  Tuukka Rask isn't expected back before January.

 

Edited by mll
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1 hour ago, Sedintwinpowersactivate said:

Ferland is exactly the type of player that is missing from Vancouver.  I think his career is over, but never say never.  He would be a welcome addition to this team next season.

I agree that Ferland is exactly the type of player that we need.  The thing is that, sadly, he isn't that player anymore.  He's making the right call in hanging them up.  Health always comes first.  Thanks to Michael for giving it a go for us, and we could have really used a healthy Ferland but he's done.  Optimism is great but one has to deal with reality sometimes too.  GCG!

Edited by nux_win
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14 minutes ago, nux_win said:

I agree the Ferland is exactly the type of player that we need.  The thing is that, sadly, he isn't that player anymore.  He's making the right call in hanging them up.  Health always comes first.  Thanks to Michael for giving it a go for us, and we could have really used a healthy Ferland but he's done.  Optimism is great but one has to deal with reality sometimes too.  GCG!

Also if he can't play a hard nosed physical game, he should hang em up. Physical hockey is his game 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I feel horrible for him - but I am relieved that he is taking care of himself and not sacrificing/risking his future to play the game.

Also glad the franchise signed him and that he's secure financially.

Hard to transition, but there are other ways to play, compete, have fun, stay fit, etc while protecting your most important 'assets'.

Wish him the best.

I always liked him as a player - even when he was getting the best of us, for a rival, in the postseason.

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There sure has been a lot of love for Ferland on this thread and in general in the Canuck community.

I can’t say I’ve got as heartfelt opinion on it. Sure, I’m glad that he, as a human, is taking the right course of action for his  injury. But as a fan of the Canucks, my biased lens has noted the following:

- Ferland being Canucks enemy #1 in a postseason against the Flames where he illegally crushed Bieksa and company every chance he could with charges and seemingly went unnoticed by refs and caused enough chaos to help bounce us from the playoffs;

- Ferland signing a massive deal with the Canucks when his health was still in question but he maintained he was concussion-free

- Ferland not attending his first days as a Canuck in training camp because he was “sick”

-Ferland finally joining the team late in training camp but looking off

-Ferland getting concussed continuously with the Canucks, on seemingly very minimal head contact plays. Each attempt to come back usually ends about a shift or two into games, leaving the Canucks short numbered for the remainder of games.

- Ferland trying again to come back in the post-season bubble, and having to leave partly through a game

Yes, I’m clearly biased, and again, I’m glad he’s taking a healthy route for himself, but as a Canuck fan, I see a guy who singlehandedly crushed us in a post season, joined us on a long, expensive deal when I’m guessing he knew he wasn’t fully healthy, disrupted our team chemistry and left us short handed a plenty each time he would try to insert himself back in the lineup (probably driven by his own guilt for signing a contract in somewhat bad faith) and now has hampered the team slightly by keeping him on long term injured reserve rather than having his full cap hit to use in the off-season - we have to wait until the season officially starts before we can touch his LTIR. He’s screwed this team about as much as a player can, and fans are like “I sure am glad to see he’s making the right choice.. he’s so great.”

The Canucks may have been Ferland’s retirement plan all along.

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The Canucks may have been Ferland’s retirement plan all along.

3 minutes ago, Slegr said:

 

That was my assumption from the first momemt his signing was announced. He was the sort of player we needed after we lost Deick Dorset, but his chnace of remaining healthy was at best slim, in short we were conned

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On 8/4/2021 at 6:51 PM, Petey_BOI said:

on the free agent route there has to be some free agent available that has some upside. there is usually 100 RFA's not qualified every year, college free agents even aging old stars that might fill a few seats, ferland just is not a desirable contract. ferlands contract is not insurable

 

on the trade route still, there has to be a better option. ferlands contract is not insurable, even if a team desperately needed to hit bottom cap limit there is LTIR contracts out there that are insured, but even then most teams would be happy to get rid of there LTIRETIRED and there value is very limited. Ottawa traded to reach the cap floor in 2019,2020 and all it cost them basically nothing the same callhan,condon trade with the lightning. trade a depth player for a ltir player and swapping a 5th and a 6th.

 

TBL would happily give away seabrook for free.

Teams looking to just hit the cap floor aren't looking to spend actual money.  Ferlands uninsured contract makes it toxic for those teams.  Easier to get an insured contract for a player in perpetual LTIR and pay out virtual actual dollars.

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32 minutes ago, Slegr said:

There sure has been a lot of love for Ferland on this thread and in general in the Canuck community.

I can’t say I’ve got as heartfelt opinion on it. Sure, I’m glad that he, as a human, is taking the right course of action for his  injury. But as a fan of the Canucks, my biased lens has noted the following:

- Ferland being Canucks enemy #1 in a postseason against the Flames where he illegally crushed Bieksa and company every chance he could with charges and seemingly went unnoticed by refs and caused enough chaos to help bounce us from the playoffs;

- Ferland signing a massive deal with the Canucks when his health was still in question but he maintained he was concussion-free

- Ferland not attending his first days as a Canuck in training camp because he was “sick”

-Ferland finally joining the team late in training camp but looking off

-Ferland getting concussed continuously with the Canucks, on seemingly very minimal head contact plays. Each attempt to come back usually ends about a shift or two into games, leaving the Canucks short numbered for the remainder of games.

- Ferland trying again to come back in the post-season bubble, and having to leave partly through a game

Yes, I’m clearly biased, and again, I’m glad he’s taking a healthy route for himself, but as a Canuck fan, I see a guy who singlehandedly crushed us in a post season, joined us on a long, expensive deal when I’m guessing he knew he wasn’t fully healthy, disrupted our team chemistry and left us short handed a plenty each time he would try to insert himself back in the lineup (probably driven by his own guilt for signing a contract in somewhat bad faith) and now has hampered the team slightly by keeping him on long term injured reserve rather than having his full cap hit to use in the off-season - we have to wait until the season officially starts before we can touch his LTIR. He’s screwed this team about as much as a player can, and fans are like “I sure am glad to see he’s making the right choice.. he’s so great.”

The Canucks may have been Ferland’s retirement plan all along.

I'm sure the Canucks had a medical checkup before giving him the contract and got the go ahead. If the Canucks offered the contract without a check up (although I doubt they did as Ferland didn't sign until much after the UFA period started), then that's on the Canucks taking the risk, not Ferland for taking the offer. Other teams gave him offers, I doubt he was trying to play us here specifically. But he probably knew to take the best offer on the table in case the concussions persisted.

 

I doubt it was his intention to get concussions on a regular basis with the Canucks to force himself to retire from the game he loves and possibly affect his future life.

 

As for the time with the Flames, yes that sucked, but if this signing had planned out and he overcame the concussion issue, that style of play would've been the exact reason why we would've loved him here.

 

You're making it seem like it was personal for Ferland to try and hurt this franchise. He was an opposition once doing what he can to win games (not his fault that refs let it go) and he tried his best to play for us, but concussions affect people so differently and unfortunately for him, it was something he couldn't overcome. His time as a Canuck wasn't ideal, but nothing worth slandering him for.

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1 hour ago, Slegr said:

There sure has been a lot of love for Ferland on this thread and in general in the Canuck community.

I can’t say I’ve got as heartfelt opinion on it. Sure, I’m glad that he, as a human, is taking the right course of action for his  injury. But as a fan of the Canucks, my biased lens has noted the following:

- Ferland being Canucks enemy #1 in a postseason against the Flames where he illegally crushed Bieksa and company every chance he could with charges and seemingly went unnoticed by refs and caused enough chaos to help bounce us from the playoffs;

- Ferland signing a massive deal with the Canucks when his health was still in question but he maintained he was concussion-free

- Ferland not attending his first days as a Canuck in training camp because he was “sick”

-Ferland finally joining the team late in training camp but looking off

-Ferland getting concussed continuously with the Canucks, on seemingly very minimal head contact plays. Each attempt to come back usually ends about a shift or two into games, leaving the Canucks short numbered for the remainder of games.

- Ferland trying again to come back in the post-season bubble, and having to leave partly through a game

Yes, I’m clearly biased, and again, I’m glad he’s taking a healthy route for himself, but as a Canuck fan, I see a guy who singlehandedly crushed us in a post season, joined us on a long, expensive deal when I’m guessing he knew he wasn’t fully healthy, disrupted our team chemistry and left us short handed a plenty each time he would try to insert himself back in the lineup (probably driven by his own guilt for signing a contract in somewhat bad faith) and now has hampered the team slightly by keeping him on long term injured reserve rather than having his full cap hit to use in the off-season - we have to wait until the season officially starts before we can touch his LTIR. He’s screwed this team about as much as a player can, and fans are like “I sure am glad to see he’s making the right choice.. he’s so great.”

The Canucks may have been Ferland’s retirement plan all along.

That's the thing with cumulative concussions though: You can be 100% symptom free through any kind of training at all, but be very sensitive to knocks on the head. People aren't going to get punched in the head in training to see how easily symptoms come back. I don't for a second believe he thought he was not healthy when he signed, do you think he'd be so willing to fight if he knew he had a nagging brain injury? 

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1 hour ago, MattJVD said:

That's the thing with cumulative concussions though: You can be 100% symptom free through any kind of training at all, but be very sensitive to knocks on the head. People aren't going to get punched in the head in training to see how easily symptoms come back. I don't for a second believe he thought he was not healthy when he signed, do you think he'd be so willing to fight if he knew he had a nagging brain injury? 

You might think I’m stretching, but I honestly believe Ferland didn’t feel 100% when he signed his contract, probably lied to any medical examiners realizing this is his one big chance at a big money deal, hoped he would get better in time for Canucks training camp, didn’t get better, missed most of camp, came in looking off, and early on, realized he wasn’t well, picked a fight with Clifford, didn’t really get hit in the head, but used that fight as the reason he now had a “concussion” that he had already been harbouring prior to contract signing. He then tried multiple times to come back, and left early each time, without needing to pick a fight - the concussion symptoms had just never fully left from when he was with Carolina.

 

Never underestimate what someone will do for millions of dollars to support their family.

Edited by Slegr
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4 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

That's a hell of a stretch.  I prefer the much simpler solution which is to take Ferland at his word.

Ferland’s word and doctor’s clearance.  The medical experts fully supported Ferland’s health.  The guy 100% wanted to play.  He believed he could play, and the doctors believed he could play.  

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5 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Ferland’s word and doctor’s clearance.  The medical experts fully supported Ferland’s health.  The guy 100% wanted to play.  He believed he could play, and the doctors believed he could play.  

I’m not an expert on it, but I imagine it would be pretty hard to assess a concussion when so much of it is felt by an individual- if they’re not being honest, a medical expert wouldn’t have much else to go on, short of someone outright vomiting when asked to perform in certain ways. 

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4 minutes ago, Slegr said:

I’m not an expert on it, but I imagine it would be pretty hard to assess a concussion when so much of it is felt by an individual- if they’re not being honest, a medical expert wouldn’t have much else to go on, short of someone outright vomiting when asked to perform in certain ways. 

Lots of baseline tests for concussions, especially for athletes.  Ferland would need to pass those tests (over time) to be cleared to play.  

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20 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Lots of baseline tests for concussions, especially for athletes.  Ferland would need to pass those tests (over time) to be cleared to play.  

Perhaps. Something doesn’t pass the smell test on it all though - like why he wasn’t able to come to camp to start. I think he finished the season by playing out the final few games with Carolina (perhaps in similar fashion to how he started with the Canucks). It would be interesting to know for sure whether Vancouver medical examiners even connected with him. 
I see there is a Sportsnet article from Ian MacIntyre on Dec 6, 2019, which reads that the Canucks looked into Ferland’s medical history with Carolina Hurricanes and Calgary Flames before signing him, but no indication of actually examining him. That’s a pretty substantial failure on management’s part for such a risky investment.

Edited by Slegr
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6 hours ago, Slegr said:

Perhaps. Something doesn’t pass the smell test on it all though - like why he wasn’t able to come to camp to start. I think he finished the season by playing out the final few games with Carolina (perhaps in similar fashion to how he started with the Canucks). It would be interesting to know for sure whether Vancouver medical examiners even connected with him. 
I see there is a Sportsnet article from Ian MacIntyre on Dec 6, 2019, which reads that the Canucks looked into Ferland’s medical history with Carolina Hurricanes and Calgary Flames before signing him, but no indication of actually examining him. That’s a pretty substantial failure on management’s part for such a risky investment.

He was examined by the Canucks' doctors before signing per Benning.

 

Ferland tried several times to come back.  He went to Utica where he had to leave the game early.  With more recovery time he started in the Edmonton bubble and initiated that fight with Foligno.  The Wild have a behind the scenes series where you can hear Ferland asking Foligno to go with Foligno asking him if he is really sure.  Feels like he was trying to prove himself that he was back healthy.  He could have just continued to sit out after Utica and not attempt that comeback.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, mll said:

He was examined by the Canucks' doctors before signing per Benning.

 

Ferland tried several times to come back.  He went to Utica where he had to leave the game early.  With more recovery time he started in the Edmonton bubble and initiated that fight with Foligno.  The Wild have a behind the scenes series where you can hear Ferland asking Foligno to go with Foligno asking him if he is really sure.  Feels like he was trying to prove himself that he was back healthy.  He could have just continued to sit out after Utica and not attempt that comeback.

 

 

Hopefully not the same doctors that examined Cody Hodgson.:P

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1 hour ago, mll said:

He was examined by the Canucks' doctors before signing per Benning.

 

Ferland tried several times to come back.  He went to Utica where he had to leave the game early.  With more recovery time he started in the Edmonton bubble and initiated that fight with Foligno.  The Wild have a behind the scenes series where you can hear Ferland asking Foligno to go with Foligno asking him if he is really sure.  Feels like he was trying to prove himself that he was back healthy.  He could have just continued to sit out after Utica and not attempt that comeback.

 

 

This.

If Ferland really only was after a final pay out, why would he even attempt to make comebacks regularly. He could just have sat back and collected he pay check.

I don't think, this was Ferland plan to start with, although I do agree with @Slegrthat folks do stupid things, to ensure some sort of security financially.

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