[Discussion] Escalating market price for defencemen (Quinn Hughes)

[Junkyard Dog]

23 minutes ago, Rick_theRyper said:

So take what he signed for and add 17% and we couldn’t offer that? If OEL was here? Because that’s what I was insinuating 

Because we couldn’t talk to him.  
 

You don’t get that we weren’t given that opportunity whatsoever. He signed before we had the chance. Nobody could talk to him besides Seattle at that point and Seattle took advantage of that. 

[IBatch]

32 minutes ago, Rick_theRyper said:

So take what he signed for and add 17% and we couldn’t offer that? If OEL was here? Because that’s what I was insinuating 

And like i said in my first post.  As a UFA if he's not interested then he's not interested.   All the time on this site i see whining and moaning about how we could get this guy or get that guy and why didn't JB get him (UFA ...AND trades actually) ... with trades it makes a little sense at least, with UFAs it makes little.  Guys go where they want to go.   32 teams.   This one has another layer too it that I think you missed.   Why in the heck would have the Kraken wasted their expansion pick on Larsson if they didn't know he was going to sign there? It's ok.  I'm mad because we didn't get Hamilton.  Have been hoping for that for over a year now.   Even made some trade ideas on how we'd get enough money to afford him.    Instead we get OEL to replace a 30 year old Edler because he's 30 too.   And Garland, plus Dickinson and enough money to sign both EP and QHs long term if we want.  And not worry about offer sheets we can't match .... plus what's left over with Ferlands LTIR.   A much better roster then last years at least. 

[Gurn]

Biggest problem on this site, imo, is not the repetitive negativity; it is the repetitive negativity about stuff where the posters are just completely factually incorrect.

They get their facts flat out wrong.

 

[vancan2233]

12 hours ago, IBatch said:

Reinhardt.   So yes we have.  6 all-time in PGP in the regular season,  and amped it up in the playoffs - 4 all-time there.   Then we got into some sort of disagreement.   Also isn't blocking shots, board work, hitting and even size/intimidation a skill as well?   That's my point.   Reinhardt was broken and almost close to retirement while here, but still an incredible talent.   Not much taller but jacked enough at 200lbs.   Jovo had a couple number one seasons for us in the dead puck era that can't be ignored either.   Lanz, McCarthy, Lidster, Lumme... 

 

QHs is awesome and has the potential to be the best we've ever had too.  Skill wise ok sure i will say he's pretty close to Reinhardt.  Like i said sample size isn't big enough yet.   Different era, but Reinhardt never disappointed in his either.   When he gets to 600 games then we can re-visit this. 

Here is a good read for you:

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/canucks-quinn-hughes-talent-like-vancouver-never-seen/

 

I will post one quote from the article:

 “I’m very, very impressed with his skating and confidence and creativity,” Dennis Kearns (1972-82 Canucks) says. “And I like the way the coach has confidence in him and puts him out on the ice and just lets him play, lets him create. In terms of mobility, Paul Reinhart was a beautiful skater, an exceptional talent. But he was bigger and thicker than Quinn. But I think (Hughes’) skill set is different than anyone we’ve seen in Vancouver.”

[aGENT]

11 minutes ago, gurn said:

Biggest problem on this site, imo, is not the repetitive negativity; it is the repetitive negativity about stuff where the posters are just completely factually incorrect.

They get their facts flat out wrong.

 

 

Same problem I'm having, fighting the QO boogeyman in the Boeser thread.

 

[IBatch]

7 minutes ago, gurn said:

Biggest problem on this site, imo, is not the repetitive negativity; it is the repetitive negativity about stuff where the posters are just completely factually incorrect.

They get their facts flat out wrong.

 

Burns me how much grief Myers has gotten from this fan base.   Guys think the next new toy is going to be better - we lost Tanev so need Savard or Larson or whomever / but Tanev is made of glass, averaged 60ish games a season blah blah blah when he was here on the flip side.    Myers is one of the best RHDs that has gone to market the last five years but instead of  being happy about that, and his Kelowna connection for wanting to come here in the first place, he's our new Edler whipping boy ( notice how quite that hate was the last two years of his contract?  used to be constant and loud, apparently nobody complained about his 6 million dollar deal the last two years out of respect - finally, better late then never i suppose).   

 

Often i pine for the days when nobody had a clue what these guys made.   If we didn't we'd all be sending LE good luck and thank you for being a Canuck postcards instead of worst contract since Messier hate mail. 

[Gurn]

1 minute ago, aGENT said:

 

Same problem I'm having, fighting the QO boogeyman in the Boeser thread.

 

 

[IBatch]

15 minutes ago, vancan2233 said:

Here is a good read for you:

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/canucks-quinn-hughes-talent-like-vancouver-never-seen/

 

I will post one quote from the article:

 “I’m very, very impressed with his skating and confidence and creativity,” Dennis Kearns (1972-82 Canucks) says. “And I like the way the coach has confidence in him and puts him out on the ice and just lets him play, lets him create. In terms of mobility, Paul Reinhart was a beautiful skater, an exceptional talent. But he was bigger and thicker than Quinn. But I think (Hughes’) skill set is different than anyone we’ve seen in Vancouver.”

Well guess we will find out won't we?   WG also said the EP reminded him of himself when he started and was tearing it up and scored more then a 1/3 of his goals the first ten games.   Sample size is too small.   I'm very hopeful that both these guy can make the HHOF.   But we can't pay too much for potential or we'd be the laughs. 

[Rick_theRyper]

2 hours ago, Junkyard Dog said:

Because we couldn’t talk to him.  
 

You don’t get that we weren’t given that opportunity whatsoever. He signed before we had the chance. Nobody could talk to him besides Seattle at that point and Seattle took advantage of that. 

Sure that’s the rules but happens in Seattle stays in Seattle 

[aGENT]

On 7/30/2021 at 5:54 PM, grandmaster said:

Seems that with the recent defencemen signings, the market has exploded to ridiculous proportions (Seth Jones, Werenski, etc…)

 

I’m worried about Hughes chasing after every dollar he can get. There is something about him that makes me feel that he would be like this (more so than Petey). 

 

If this is the case, would any of you be open to trading him? I think it would be worth a consideration. He isn’t exactly a top 10 defenceman in the league and I feel he is going to want to be paid as one (he has great offensive skills but his defence needs work).

If I were to trade Hughes, I would demand a genuine top 4D and a pick/good defenceman prospect. 
 

I don’t feel easy signing Hughes to 8 or 9M per for the next 6-8 years.

Hate to break it to folks but prices are largely what they've been for a few years, with very little inflation.

 

Even when we were signing Myers (or Edler) for what too many here claim (incorrectly) is 'first pairing money', UFA aged, legit first pair guys like Spurgeon, Carlson, Byfuglien, Vlassic, OEL etc were all signing for $7m+ deals. Never mind guys like Doughty or Karlsson signing for deals over $10m.

 

You buy UFA years of first pair D, it's going to be $7m+... Now trending slowly to $8m plus with the gradual inflation we're seeing.

 

This is not some shocking or new phenomena. RFA's years cost less. UFA years cost more.  A first pair D on their second deal can expect between about $4.5-$6 on a short bridge. If it's buying UFA years, you'll see it creep up in to that $7-$8 territory. If they bridge, they'll make closer to $8-$9 in their third contract/UFA years. If they're elite, they can expect $10+.

Edited August 13, 2021 by aGENT

[Team Bagues]

The guys getting big money are getting too much in my mind. Especially the big dogs - who tend to decline sooner and quicker than the mid sized D. There's only a few guys like Pronger who were able to carry the big man game for many years.

 

Regardless, those guys getting stupid money all actually play defence, and contribute the offense.

 

Luckily for us, Quinn has yet to get real good at the D side, which he may never figure out.

Right now he's at Tyson Barrie, Macavoy type money.