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[Report] 17 players elect salary arbitration


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3 hours ago, AriGold said:

JD - 15 points in 51 games, 26 years old

 

Nick Richie - 26 points in 56 games, 26 years old - Signed 2 x 2.5M

Warren Foegele - 20 points in 53 games, 27 years old - Signed 3 x 2.75M

Arttuei Lehkonen - 13 points in 47 games, 26 years old - Signed 1 x 2.3M

Andreas Athanasiou - 23 points in 47 games - 26 years old - Signed 1 x 2.7M

 

Based on what I see above I see a fair contract would be 2 x 2.4M

Do those guys have comparable defensive numbers?

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33 minutes ago, Petey_BOI said:

Your wrong about pearson and bo horvat, they are our best players when it comes to shutting down elite offensive players. I can prove it if you want.

Being our best players at it doesnt mean they are actually all that good at it. Considering our actual team results the last several years, I would say it shows a serious issue shutting other teams down with any consistency.

 

Horvat has NEVER been all that well suited as a shutdown player. I know people on here have created an urban legend that he is a selke shutdown guy but he really isnt. In many ways its fitting a square peg in a round hole. The fact he can still produce offensively even when saddled with that role is a testament to the fact he needs to center an actual 2nd scoring line, not a Pearsn, Loui Eriksson, etc shutdown line. He should not be in that role next season with the players that have been added and certainly would not be on a shutdown line on any team hoping to win the cup.

 

Pearson is a 30 point player (when you factor in all his empty net points). Put him on a more defensive 3rd line and free Bo from having to play with him.

 

The only reason the myth is out there thst Horvat needs Pearson is because Benning needs to justify overpaying him on what most industry experts said should have been around 2.5 million tops. Horvat needs better wingers than Pearson and so does our top 6. Garland and Hoglander should be with Bo.

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3 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Those teams with players filing for arbitration get a 2nd buyout window I believe.

Only players on the team's reserve list at the TDL and with a minimum AAV of circa 4M are eligible for that 2nd buyout window.  

 

Edited by mll
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20 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

Do those guys have comparable defensive numbers?

exactly, as much as i harped about certain defensive players on our team, dickinson is a cut above and could even break out this year. 27 and 28 is when defensive players hit their peak as long as they are healthy.

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4 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Being our best players at it doesnt mean they are actually all that good at it. Considering our actual team results the last several years, I would say it shows a serious issue shutting other teams down with any consistency.

 

Horvat has NEVER been all that well suited as a shutdown player. I know people on here have created an urban legend that he is a selke shutdown guy but he really isnt. In many ways its fitting a square peg in a round hole. The fact he can still produce offensively even when saddled with that role is a testament to the fact he needs to center an actual 2nd scoring line, not a Pearsn, Loui Eriksson, etc shutdown line. He should not be in that role next season with the players that have been added and certainly would not be on a shutdown line on any team hoping to win the cup.

 

Pearson is a 30 point player (when you factor in all his empty net points). Put him on a more defensive 3rd line and free Bo from having to play with him.

 

The only reason the myth is out there thst Horvat needs Pearson is because Benning needs to justify overpaying him on what most industry experts said should have been around 2.5 million tops. Horvat needs better wingers than Pearson and so does our top 6. Garland and Hoglander should be with Bo.

i just showed you how well those two played together, in fact it seems that bo's numbers improve when playing with pearson. so just because you think pearson's 30 points is bringing down horvat, really means nothing cause stats don't lie.

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3 minutes ago, mll said:

Only players on the team's reserve list at the TDL and with a minimum AAV of circa 4M are eligible for that 2nd buyout window.  

 

Canucks have no one to use one on anyway.

 

Other teams might though.

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8 minutes ago, Petey_BOI said:

i just showed you how well those two played together, in fact it seems that bo's numbers improve when playing with pearson. so just because you think pearson's 30 points is bringing down horvat, really means nothing cause stats don't lie.

Sorry I cant read that table you posted. On my phone screen it just shows as a bunch of gobbledygook. 

 

I read an article the other day that took a very deep dive into this subject. And rather than post a bunch of out of context numbers it actually explained exactly what those numbers showed and compared the duo to others around the league in similar roles together. Hence the context showing they are not particularly good at the job.

 

If Pearson is in our top 6 next year who do you take out to keep him there? Hoglander? Garland? Miller? I would say all 3 of themare better options than Pearson and its not particularly close. 

 

Edit: I will see if I can find the article again and post a link to it here.

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1 hour ago, -AJ- said:

Do those guys have comparable defensive numbers?

The first 3 are wingers, which are not as valued as a C.  Andreas Athanasiou is a C and a better player than Dicks.  I would rather have him than Dicks.  I hope that Dicks $ come in under 2.5m

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31 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Sorry I cant read that table you posted. On my phone screen it just shows as a bunch of gobbledygook. 

 

I read an article the other day that took a very deep dive into this subject. And rather than post a bunch of out of context numbers it actually explained exactly what those numbers showed and compared the duo to others around the league in similar roles together. Hence the context showing they are not particularly good at the job.

 

If Pearson is in our top 6 next year who do you take out to keep him there? Hoglander? Garland? Miller? I would say all 3 of themare better options than Pearson and its not particularly close. 

 

Edit: I will see if I can find the article again and post a link to it here.

yeah, stats don't lie. and no offense, but news article's are very likely to be misleading. like my stats show, when BO and pearson are on the ice together they play better, and if they play better than the other forwards at "shutting down" elite talent there was nothing wrong with playing them there.

 

when you consider that games are won 5vs5 you should put your 2 best performing forwards against other teams top lines.

 

horvat and pearson out performed 

boeser and miller

sutter and virtanen

motte and beagle

motte and sutter

 

thats why they play together so much for us 5 on 5. the only other person on our team that can play well against top players last year is EP40.

 

if dickinson can take some defensive time away from bo by creating offensive draws and taking defensive draws thats great. but Bo will continue to lead our team vs elite players because he does a good job of it. (the second best compared to ep40) Pearson will continue to play with bo I guarntee it and hoglander will be moved to the third line to play with dickinson and podkolzin.

 

JT EP40 BB

TP BH CG

NH JD VP

TM BS ??

 

OEL TM

QH TH
JR TP

 

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3 hours ago, NHL'er said:

Arbitration is binding. 

Well, yes and no.  Depends on the amount awarded, the term, and who initiated the arbitration

 

Here's a quote from "beyond the glass"

 

 

"Even though the arbitrator’s award is binding and final, teams have what is known as a “walk-away right” if the arbitration was initiated by the player. If the arbitrator’s award was for a one-year term and greater than $3.5 million, the team may exercise this walk-away right and the player will become an unrestricted free agent. If the arbitrator’s award was for a two-year term and greater than $3.5 million per year, the team may exercise this walk-away right and the player will be under contract at the salary awarded for one year and become an unrestricted free agent the following year. This $3.5 million gets adjusted each year to match the average league salary.

 

"The team can only exercise this walk-away right a certain amount of times per league year depending on how many salary arbitration awards are granted. If there are one or two awarded the team may only exercise this right once, if there are three or four granted the team may exercise this right twice, and then if there are five granted the team may exercise this right three times and so on."

 

Here's the link to the whole piece ...

 

https://beyondtheglasshockey.com/2020/10/salary-arbitration-in-the-nhl-with-2020-updates.html

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2 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Being our best players at it doesnt mean they are actually all that good at it. Considering our actual team results the last several years, I would say it shows a serious issue shutting other teams down with any consistency.

 

Horvat has NEVER been all that well suited as a shutdown player. I know people on here have created an urban legend that he is a selke shutdown guy but he really isnt. In many ways its fitting a square peg in a round hole. The fact he can still produce offensively even when saddled with that role is a testament to the fact he needs to center an actual 2nd scoring line, not a Pearsn, Loui Eriksson, etc shutdown line. He should not be in that role next season with the players that have been added and certainly would not be on a shutdown line on any team hoping to win the cup.

 

Pearson is a 30 point player (when you factor in all his empty net points). Put him on a more defensive 3rd line and free Bo from having to play with him.

 

The only reason the myth is out there thst Horvat needs Pearson is because Benning needs to justify overpaying him on what most industry experts said should have been around 2.5 million tops. Horvat needs better wingers than Pearson and so does our top 6. Garland and Hoglander should be with Bo.

Picard Facepalm GIF by MOODMAN

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5 hours ago, Googlie said:

Well, yes and no.  Depends on the amount awarded, the term, and who initiated the arbitration

 

Here's a quote from "beyond the glass"

 

 

"Even though the arbitrator’s award is binding and final, teams have what is known as a “walk-away right” if the arbitration was initiated by the player. If the arbitrator’s award was for a one-year term and greater than $3.5 million, the team may exercise this walk-away right and the player will become an unrestricted free agent. If the arbitrator’s award was for a two-year term and greater than $3.5 million per year, the team may exercise this walk-away right and the player will be under contract at the salary awarded for one year and become an unrestricted free agent the following year. This $3.5 million gets adjusted each year to match the average league salary.

 

"The team can only exercise this walk-away right a certain amount of times per league year depending on how many salary arbitration awards are granted. If there are one or two awarded the team may only exercise this right once, if there are three or four granted the team may exercise this right twice, and then if there are five granted the team may exercise this right three times and so on."

 

Here's the link to the whole piece ...

 

https://beyondtheglasshockey.com/2020/10/salary-arbitration-in-the-nhl-with-2020-updates.html

Nice good read. I was speaking more about arbitraiton generally which is what I do so interesting to see that they tweak it so. 

 

You wouldn't have any walk-away rights in a commercial arbitration normally.  

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19 hours ago, AriGold said:

JD - 15 points in 51 games, 26 years old

 

Nick Richie - 26 points in 56 games, 26 years old - Signed 2 x 2.5M

Warren Foegele - 20 points in 53 games, 27 years old - Signed 3 x 2.75M

Arttuei Lehkonen - 13 points in 47 games, 26 years old - Signed 1 x 2.3M

Andreas Athanasiou - 23 points in 47 games - 26 years old - Signed 1 x 2.7M

 

Based on what I see above I see a fair contract would be 2 x 2.4M

Foegele is the best comparable on your list - Lekhonen to a lesser extent - Ritchie and Athanasiou are poor/not comparables - a pair of inflated ('or bust' type) producers who don't play comparable minutes by any stretch of the imagination.

 

But Foegele is a good baseline.

 

Foegele

10g, 10a, 20p in 53 games.

60 hits, 12 blocks

44.7% ozone starts, 52.9% corsi

28 giveaways, 16 takeaways.

2.3 on ice goals for per 60 5on5, 1.9 against

14:09 game, 1:01 pk

 

Dickinson

7g, 8a, 15p, 51 games

78 hits, 49 blocks

44.1% ozone starts, 55.3% corsi

17 giveaways, 28 takeaways

2.1 on ice goals for per 60, 2.1 against.

16:13 game, 1:41 pk

 

Lekhonen

7g, 6a, 13p, 47 games

85 hits, 23 blocks

52.5% ozone starts, 52.7 corsi

13 giveaways, 3 takeaways

1.5 on ice gf, 2.2 against,

13:25 game, 2:01 pk

 

 

 

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Hearing dates have been set - August 20 for Dickinson.

 

August 11
Adam Pelech (New York Islanders)
Michael McNiven (Montreal Canadiens)
Jakub Vrana (Detroit Red Wings)

August 12
Victor Mete (Ottawa Senators)*

August 13
Neal Pionk (Winnipeg Jets)

August 14
Vince Dunn (Seattle Kraken)
Zach Sanford (St. Louis Blues)*

August 16
Adin Hill (San Jose Sharks)*
Ross Colton (Tampa Bay Lightning)

August 17
Kevin Fiala (Minnesota Wild)

August 18
Juuse Saros (Nashville Predators)

August 20
Dante Fabbro (Nashville Predators)
Jason Dickinson (Vancouver Canucks)

August 21
Adam Erne (Detroit Red Wings)
Dennis Gilbert (Colorado Avalanche)

August 23
Zach Aston-Reese (Pittsburgh Penguins)

August 26
Andrew Copp (Winnipeg Jets)
Nikita Zadorov (Calgary Flames)
Travis Sanheim (Philadelphia Flyers)

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On 8/1/2021 at 7:12 PM, wallstreetamigo said:

Being our best players at it doesnt mean they are actually all that good at it. Considering our actual team results the last several years, I would say it shows a serious issue shutting other teams down with any consistency.

 

Horvat has NEVER been all that well suited as a shutdown player. I know people on here have created an urban legend that he is a selke shutdown guy but he really isnt. In many ways its fitting a square peg in a round hole. The fact he can still produce offensively even when saddled with that role is a testament to the fact he needs to center an actual 2nd scoring line, not a Pearsn, Loui Eriksson, etc shutdown line. He should not be in that role next season with the players that have been added and certainly would not be on a shutdown line on any team hoping to win the cup.

 

Pearson is a 30 point player (when you factor in all his empty net points). Put him on a more defensive 3rd line and free Bo from having to play with him.

 

The only reason the myth is out there thst Horvat needs Pearson is because Benning needs to justify overpaying him on what most industry experts said should have been around 2.5 million tops. Horvat needs better wingers than Pearson and so does our top 6. Garland and Hoglander should be with Bo.

Total bullocks.

 

Given the fact that you don't bother to look at any other evidence that doesn't support your points, I'm gonna refrain from pasting data.

 

Horvat was very happy that Pearson returned. That's all that matters.

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