Draft edition: Benning vs the World

[Timråfan]

14 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

 

I remember you using this same language when defending Dahlen.

 

Objectivity isn't about choosing when you want to use logic and when not to use it.

Well, when did I not use logic or objectivity?

 

[Patel Bure]

7 hours ago, RU SERIOUS said:

Interesting.....so let me fill in the blanks so we get a clearer picture of uncle Jim's drafting and what it's left us with after 8 years;

 

2014 - One NHL calibre player (Demko) out of all rd's

2015 - One NHL calibre player (BB) out of all rd's

2016 - Nothing of any value picked

2017 - One NHL calibre player (EP40) out of all rd's

2018 - One NHL calibre player (QH) out of all rd's

2019 - One NHL calibre player (Hog) out of all rd's.  Pods is Unproven so far and could end up being another bust like Yo-Levi or Jake "The Ripper" (Hopefully not)

2020 - Not a single player will make the NHL according to hockeys insiders and no 1st or 2nd rd picks as they were given away.

2021 - Not a single player will make the NHL according to hockeys insiders and no 1st or 3rd or 4th rd picks as they were given away.

 

................so for all the Uncle Jim supporters out there and for those who can't do math, that = 5 NHL calibre players on our team out of 54 picks in 8 long years.  This is the reality of his tenure here and why he must be removed ASAP.  (See the facts/details below) 

 

 

Vancouver Canucks Draft History

2021 Entry						NHL Totals
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2021 Entry	41	2	Danila Klimovich	R	Minsk Dynamo [Belarus]
2021 Entry	137	5	Aku Koskenvuo	G	HIFK [Finland Jr.]
2021 Entry	140	5	Jonathan Myrenberg	D	Linkoping HC Jr. [Swe-Jr]
2021 Entry	169	6	Hugo Gabrielson	D	Vastra Frolunda Jr. [Swe-Jr]
2021 Entry	178	6	Connor Lockhart	R	Erie Otters [OHL]
2021 Entry	201	7	Lucas Forsell	L	Farjestads Jr. [Swe-Jr]
2020 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2020 Entry	82	3	Joni Jurmo	D	Jokerit Jrs. (Finland)
2020 Entry	113	4	Jackson Kunz	L	Shattuck St. Mary's (Minn. H.S.)
2020 Entry	144	5	Jacob Truscott	D	U.S. National Under-18 Team [USHL]
2020 Entry	175	6	Dmitry Zlodeyev	C	Dynamo Moscow Jrs. (Russia)
2020 Entry	191	7	Viktor Persson	D	Brynas Jrs. (Sweden)
2019 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2019 Entry	10	1	Vasili Podkolzin	R	St. Petersburg [Russia Jr.]
2019 Entry	40	2	Nils Hoglander	L	Rogle BK Angelholm [SweHL]	56	13	14	27	16
2019 Entry	122	4	Ethan Keppen	L	Flint Firebirds [OHL]
2019 Entry	133	5	Carson Focht	C	Calgary Hitmen [WHL]
2019 Entry	156	6	Arturs Silovs	G	Riga [Russia Jrs.]
2019 Entry	175	6	Karel Plasek	R	Brno Kometa [Czech]
2019 Entry	180	6	Jack Malone	R	Youngstown Phantoms [USHL]
2019 Entry	195	7	Aidan Mcdonough	L	Cedar Rapids RoughRiders [USHL]
2019 Entry	215	7	Arvid Costmar	C	Linkoping [Sweden Jrs.]
2018 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2018 Entry	7	1	Quinn Hughes	D	U. of Michigan [Big-10]	129	11	86	97	46
2018 Entry	37	2	Jett Woo	D	Moose Jaw Warriors [WHL]
2018 Entry	68	3	Tyler Madden	C	Tri-City Storm [USHL]
2018 Entry	130	5	Toni Utunen	D	Leki-2 (Finland Jrs.)
2018 Entry	186	6	Artem Manukyan	F	Omsk-2 (Russia Jrs.)
2018 Entry	192	7	Matthew Thiessen	G	Steinbach Pistons [MJHL]
2017 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2017 Entry	5	1	Elias Pettersson	C	Timra IK [Swe-1]	165	65	88	153	36
2017 Entry	33	2	Kole Lind	R	Kelowna Rockets [WHL]	7	0	0	0	0
2017 Entry	55	2	Jonah Gadjovich	L	Owen Sound Attack [OHL]	1	0	0	0	17
2017 Entry	64	3	Michael DiPietro	G	Windsor Spitfires [OHL]	2	0	0	0	0
2017 Entry	95	4	Jack Rathbone	D	Dexter School [Mass. H.S.]	8	1	2	3	0
2017 Entry	135	5	Kristoffer Gunnarsson	D	Frolunda HC [SweHL]
2017 Entry	181	6	Petrus Palmu	R	Owen Sound Attack [OHL]
2017 Entry	188	7	Matt Brassard	D	Oshawa Generals [OHL]
2016 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2016 Entry	5	1	Olli Juolevi	D	London Knights [OHL]	23	2	1	3	0
2016 Entry	64	3	William Lockwood	R	U.S. National Development Team [USHL]	2	0	0	0	2
2016 Entry	140	5	Cole Candella	D	Hamilton Bulldogs [OHL]
2016 Entry	154	6	Jakob Stukel	L	Calgary Hitmen [WHL]
2016 Entry	184	7	Rodrigo Abols	C	Portland Winterhawks [WHL]
2016 Entry	194	7	Brett McKenzie	C	North Bay Battalion [OHL]
2015 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2015 Entry	23	1	Brock Boeser	R	Waterloo Black Hawks [USHL]	253	98	112	210	68
2015 Entry	66	3	Guillaume Brisebois	D	Acadie-Bathurst Titan [QMJHL]	9	0	0	0	0
2015 Entry	114	4	Dmitry Zhukenov	C	Omsk Jrs. (Russia)
2015 Entry	144	5	Carl Neill	D	Sherbrooke Phoenix [QMJHL]
2015 Entry	149	5	Adam Gaudette	C	Cedar Rapids RoughRiders [USHL]	160	22	34	56	67
2015 Entry	174	6	Lukas Jasek	R	Trinec Ocelari HC [Czech]
2015 Entry	210	7	Tate Olson	D	Prince George Cougars [WHL]
2014 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2014 Entry	6	1	Jake Virtanen	R	Calgary Hitmen [WHL]	317	55	45	100	219
2014 Entry	24	1	Jared McCann	C	Soo Greyhounds [OHL]	353	66	89	155	122
2014 Entry	36	2	Thatcher Demko	G	Boston College [H-East]	72	0	1	1	0
2014 Entry	66	3	Nikita Tryamkin	D	Yekaterinburg Automobilist [KHL]	79	3	8	11	74
2014 Entry	126	5	Gustav Forsling	D	Linkoping (Sweden Jrs.)	165	13	31	44	50
2014 Entry	156	6	Kyle Pettit	C	Erie Otters [OHL]
2014 Entry	186	7	Mackenze Stewart	D	Prince Albert Raiders [WHL]

Let’s look at this from another perspective:

 

Draft picks highlighted in black.

 

Miller-Pettersson-Boeser

Hoglander-Horvat-Garland

Pearson-Dickinson-Podkolzin

Motte-Sutter-Highmore

 

OEL-Hamonic
Hughes-Poolman

[RathboneORJuolevi]-Myers

 

Demko

Halak

 

So by my count,...

-8 draft picks have made the team

-5-6 1st rounders (depending on whether it’s Juolevi or Rathbone that makes the team)

-2-3 non-1sts

 

The Departed, but played on the Canucks for at least one full season:

-Gaudette

-Virtanen

-Tryamkin

 

The rest of our current roster:

-Miller acquired from a 1st

-Garland acquired from a 1st

-Pearson acquired from a 1st (McCann), 2nd, and a 4th in an indirect way

-Motte acquired for a 3rd

-Highmore acquired for a 5th in an indirect way (Gaudette)

 

Previous roster players acquired with picks that played at least one full season:

-Baertschi

-Granlund

 

So, either I’m not fully understanding your argument, or you seem to have some kind of misguided philosophy that teams need to be built exclusively through draft picks.  I am of the belief that eight picks on a team is a solid number.  Can you provide examples of successful teams that have more picks on their team?

 

 

Edited August 4, 2021 by Patel Bure

[vancan2233]

6 minutes ago, cdgraham said:

Maybe post counter facts with some of your own research if you are gonna rebuttal a post that has had so much of that exact thing put into it

That would take too much effort, lazy people are also jealous of other peoples efforts. His reaction smells of jealousy. 

[Timråfan]

15 minutes ago, cdgraham said:

Maybe post counter facts with some of your own research if you are gonna rebuttal a post that has had so much of that exact thing put into it

I was more into that the opening post was more into Benning than the Canucks. 
I got no problem with the facts. 
Then it all steered far away when a lot here like to troll me. 

[knucklehead91]

30 minutes ago, RU SERIOUS said:

"I" did not say that. The suppossed NHL/TSN insiders made that statement and I would tend to believe they are reasonalbly reliable pundits as I would tend to trust very experienced TSN guys like Craig Button who correctly ranked picks like Jake "The Ripper" (before the 2014 draft) as a 40th pick rather than 6th that Uncle Jim seemed to believe he was - especiallty when all the TSN crew believe that Uncle Jim blew both the 2020 & 2021 drafts, leaving two years of empty shelves that will come back to haunt the canucks especially when guys like OEL is mid contract and floundering due to old age and fans are asking WTF were we thinking in 2021 taking on his long term "golden retirement" contract...just to save Jim's behind from being fired due to poor results for seven years.

You failed at reading from the beginning of the post. Im going to spell it out for you

 

AIR-ick Craw-ferd was the head of scouting from 2008-2015 Benning was hired FIVE weeks prior to the 2014 entry draft. Do the math. Benning wasnt here very long at all before he had to make a choice on who to draft at #6 with the work that the scouting team had provided.

SINCE GETTING RID OF CRAWFORD our drafting has skyrocketed and since Crawford went to Montreal…..

2020 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2020 Entry	16	1	Kaiden Guhle	D	Prince Albert Raiders [WHL]
2020 Entry	47	2	Luke Tuch	F	U.S. National Under-18 Team [USHL]
2020 Entry	48	2	Jan Mysak	C	Hamilton Bulldogs [OHL]
2020 Entry	102	4	Jack Smith	C	St. Cloud Cathedral (Wisc. H.S.)
2020 Entry	109	4	Blake Biondi	C	Hermantown (Minn. H.S.)
2020 Entry	124	4	Sean Farrell	L	Chicago Steel [USHL]
2020 Entry	136	5	Jakub Dobes	G	Omaha Lancers [USHL]
2020 Entry	171	6	Alexander Gordin	R	St. Petersburg Jrs. (Russia)
2019 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2019 Entry	15	1	Cole Caufield	R	U.S. National Development Team [USHL]	10	4	1	5	2
2019 Entry	46	2	Jayden Struble	D	St. Sebastiens [U.S. H.S.]
2019 Entry	64	3	Mattias Norlinder	D	MODO [Sweden Jrs.]
2019 Entry	77	3	Gianni Fairbrother	D	Everett Silvertips [WHL]
2019 Entry	126	5	Jacob Leguerrier	D	Soo Greyhounds [OHL]
2019 Entry	131	5	Rhett Pitlick	L	Chaska [Minn H.S.]
2019 Entry	138	5	Frederik Dichow	G	Vojens [Denmark Jrs.]
2019 Entry	170	6	Arsen Khisamutdinov	R	Nizhnekamsk [Russia Jrs.]
2019 Entry	201	7	Rafael Harvey-Pinard	L	Rouyn-Noranda Huskies [QMJHL]
2019 Entry	206	7	Kieran Ruscheinski	D	Calgary Northstars Midget AAA
2018 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2018 Entry	3	1	Jesperi Kotkaniemi	C	Assat Pori [SM-liiga]	171	22	40	62	61
2018 Entry	35	2	Jesse Ylonen	R	Espoo (Finland Jrs)	1	0	0	0	0
2018 Entry	38	2	Alexander Romanov	D	CSKA-2 (Russia Jrs.)	54	1	5	6	21
2018 Entry	56	2	Jacob Olofsson	C	Timra IK [Swe-1]
2018 Entry	66	3	Cam Hillis	C	Guelph Storm [OHL]
2018 Entry	71	3	Jordan Harris	D	Kimball-Union (New Hamp. H.S.)
2018 Entry	97	4	Allan McShane	C	Oshawa Generals [OHL]
2018 Entry	123	4	Jack Gorniak	L	West Salem (Wisc. H.S.)
2018 Entry	128	5	Cole Fonstad	L	Prince Albert Raiders [WHL]
2018 Entry	133	5	Samuel Houde	C	Chicoutimi Sagueneens [QMJHL]
2018 Entry	190	7	Brett Stapley	C	Vernon Vipers [BCHL]
2017 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2017 Entry	25	1	Ryan Poehling	C	St. Cloud State [NCHC]	28	4	1	5	4
2017 Entry	56	2	Josh Brook	D	Moose Jaw Warriors [WHL]
2017 Entry	58	2	Joni Ikonen	C	Frolunda [Sweden-Jr]
2017 Entry	68	3	Scott Walford	D	Victoria Royals [WHL]
2017 Entry	87	3	Cale Fleury	D	Kootenay Ice [WHL]	41	1	0	1	6
2017 Entry	149	5	Jarret Tyszka	D	Seattle Thunderbirds [WHL]
2017 Entry	199	7	Cayden Primeau	G	Lincoln Stars [USHL]	6	0	0	0	0
2016 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2016 Entry	9	1	Mikhail Sergachev	D	Windsor Spitfires [OHL]	284	29	107	136	154
2016 Entry	70	3	William Bitten	R	Flint Firebirds [OHL]
2016 Entry	100	4	Victor Mete	D	London Knights [OHL]	199	5	31	36	38
2016 Entry	124	5	Casey Staum	D	Grand Rapids (Minn. H.S.)
2016 Entry	160	6	Michael Pezzetta	L	Sudbury Wolves [OHL]
2016 Entry	187	7	Arvid Henrikson	D	AIK Jrs (Sweden)

Yikes..

[knucklehead91]

1 minute ago, Timråfan said:

I was more into that the opening post was more into Benning than the Canucks. 
I got no problem with the facts. 
Then it all steered far away when a lot here like to troll me. 

I guess you cant read between the lines eh? Bennings drafting compared to the league is the direction this team is head in and how bright the future is. I actually stated a few times how bright our future looks with just the drafting we have done. 

[JM_]

1 hour ago, kanucks25 said:

We've had quite a few draft picks in the top 40 due to being bad for a long time.

but isn't that how do it right? 

[Timråfan]

4 minutes ago, vancan2233 said:

That would take too much effort, lazy people are also jealous of other peoples efforts. His reaction smells of jealousy. 

If so I would be jealous of this post that was really good without trolling anybody…

 

[knucklehead91]

1 hour ago, kanucks25 said:

We've had quite a few draft picks in the top 40 due to being bad for a long time.

And look at Buffalo, Detroit, Montreal and a few other teams that I listed in my post… teams that have drafted higher than us and for a longer period of time, yet they are not even producing NHL players. Toronto, Edmonton… generational players from their drafting and nothing else.. Marner and Draisaitl are the only other players helping hold the team together, outside of their consensus 1sts overall and a 3rd/4th overall picks, they have almost nothing to show for the last 7 years of drafting

Edmonton had 3 consecutive 1st overalls and 4 1st overalls in 5 years. Of those 1st overalls, Yakupov was a bust, RNH has not lived up to the hype and Hall is elsewhere in the league.

 

Edmonton has drafted in the top 10 from 2007 to present 11 times. Thats 73% of their first round selections being in the top 10. Of those 11 picks 55% (6/11) of them were in the top 5. Of the top 5 picks 4/6 were 1st overall (67%)

You wanna talk about bad drafting, look at Edmonton and Buffalo, if it wasnt for McDavid they would be in another 10 year rebuild.

[Timråfan]

3 minutes ago, knucklehead91 said:

I guess you cant read between the lines eh? Bennings drafting compared to the league is the direction this team is head in and how bright the future is. I actually stated a few times how bright our future looks with just the drafting we have done. 

Well, it’s easy to troll so keep on.

You could have chosen another title and talk a bit more about the Canucks instead of Benning.

Just the fact Benning had the oppurtunity to pick early is different if you compare with Gillis. 
So when there is a lot of factors that has to fit in perfect It’s not because of One GM or One scout.

As I said, without Inge in the organisation No Petey. And because people seem to misunderstand, yes, one scout or one GM can determine wich player it is that drafts but on the whole it’s not because of one scout or GM. 
So why bring forth Benning ahead of the organisation? 

I don’t agree that Benning is the one that should take all credit or blame for what happens. It’s like Green should be the one to blame for the defensive coach or all credit if the PP is best in the league.

 

 

[vancan2233]

2 minutes ago, Timråfan said:

If so I would be jealous of this post that was really good without trolling anybody…

 

That is an awesome post top marks to nuckfanfromafrica 

No one is trolling you, sorry for the negative reply, just pissed me off he gave all that work as a troll attempt because you hate Benning.

[Sean Monahan]

5 hours ago, RU SERIOUS said:

"I" did not say that. The suppossed NHL/TSN insiders made that statement and I would tend to believe they are reasonalbly reliable pundits as I would tend to trust very experienced TSN guys like Craig Button who correctly ranked picks like Jake "The Ripper" (before the 2014 draft) as a 40th pick rather than 6th that Uncle Jim seemed to believe he was - especiallty when all the TSN crew believe that Uncle Jim blew both the 2020 & 2021 drafts, leaving two years of empty shelves that will come back to haunt the canucks especially when guys like OEL is mid contract and floundering due to old age and fans are asking WTF were we thinking in 2021 taking on his long term "golden retirement" contract...just to save Jim's behind from being fired due to poor results for seven years.

Here’s a hint: literally nobody knows what will come of a single one of the prospects taken in this past draft. 

Edited August 4, 2021 by Sean Monahan

[Isam]

4 minutes ago, Sean Monahan said:

Here’s a hint: literally knows what will come of a single one of the prospects taken in this past draft. 

I do, but i am from the year 3942 and i cannot tell you cuz it might disrupt the timeline.

[Timråfan]

7 minutes ago, vancan2233 said:

That is an awesome post top marks to nuckfanfromafrica 

No one is trolling you, sorry for the negative reply, just pissed me off he gave all that work as a troll attempt because you hate Benning.

I don’t hate Benning. I just think he’s bad communicator wich is key for a GM.

He might be good at drafting but GM is more than that.

You should only use the word ”hate” if it’s really strong emotions.

It’s not strong emotions when I just give honest answers to people who post to me. 
Benning got credit for being honest so… 

By the way, I don’t believe people are so stupid when they talk about me, Benning and Dahlen so they must be trolling. 
 

Edited August 3, 2021 by Timråfan

[vancan2233]

Just now, Timråfan said:

I don’t hate Benning. I just think he’s bad communicator wich is key for a GM.

He might be good at drafting but GM is more than that.

You should only use the word ”hate” if it’s really strong emotions.

It’s not strong emotions when I just give honest answers to people who post to me. 
Benning got credit for being honest so… 
 

How is he a bad communicator? that is also a key to good drafting. Your first response to this post was out of dislike for Benning or you would not have come to assumption it was written to troll those who do not support Benning. 

[Solinar]

Okay, while I understand that drafting high as compared to drafting later in the round, is different, we should also keep in mind that you should still be able to find 2 nhl players per draft.  I'd expect a star to be found every 3-5 years, and a superstar every 5-7 years at that pace.  The Gillis regime, while successful on ice, were absolutely terrible drafting.  There was no excuse, and it severely hampered the success of the big club and was addressed by a multitude of trades.  Nonis was better, but really whiffed on some of the players he could have gotten.

  Benning's strength does seem to be the draft, and he has delivered what would be a strong pipeline of talent, but the argument is that it could have been better if he wasn't just so bad at pro scouting.  I mean, f#cking terrible.  Like, oh my god, do you even watch NHL games or comprehend how the NHL works.   The player he could have gotten with the picks he's traded away, which are high value return picks, we could have an even better team than we do now, and we wouldn't have to dip as badly into free agency as we do.  He also seems to have forwards and goaltenders down pat, but damn boy, you seriously do not understand defensemen.  Defense is voodoo to Benning.  I don't understand why, he used to be a freaking defensemen, but...hell, can't be good at all 3 positions.

  Benning would probably be better suited to the AGM position, and would be utilized heavily to handle drafting and development.  Then a GM who could get a handle on contracts, ufa signings, pro scouting, and...communication, would serve the club in the GM chair.   I mean really, rain man would probably have an easier time during a press conference.

 

  The GM is responsible for many things, and although you are allowed to have strengths and weaknesses, his strength *drafting* is severely hampered by his pro scouting acumen and his asset management, and ability to figure out the d-core which is basically still a shambles because it seems he doesn't understand the position he's trying to fix.  That being said, when he does make a mistake, and does figure out how to fix it, we rarely see the same mistake again.  That means there's at least a little hope as we go forward, and the team that he's built, right now on paper, is probably the best team he's iced, on paper, during his tenure.  I'll withhold from donating to the firebenning campaign till December of this year.  While hopeful, I am seriously tired of this team not being able to get beyond the fixation on size, 'intangibles', and thinking that we should be able to punch the puck into the net, as opposed to having enough skill to do it the ...I don't know, hockey way.  This season is going to be a make or break year for me, as a fan.  I'm tired...it has been nearly 40 years of cheering for this team.  Please, I hope this is the year we turn a corner.

[Patel Bure]

47 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

but isn't that how do it right? 

I wonder if HF Canucks poster Kanucks25 even realizes that his idol teams (Toronto, Colorado, Toronto, Tampa Bay, Toronto, Carolina, Toronto, NYI, and Toronto) also struggled for many years before becoming elite.......although Toronto still hasn’t won a playoff round since 2004.

[IBatch]

6 hours ago, Arrow 1983 said:

You give me heck for defending JBs signings all the time. Even call me a troll some times. You just did it in my Poolman thread. Then here you defend him I have no idea where you stand. Are you a flip flopper.

 

If you say something ridiculous i don't care if it's pro or anti Benning, it's just exactly that.   I'm not pro or anti Benning and never have been, i'm pro Canucks.   If you have to know i think he's done a good-decent job all things considered if it makes you feel better, we sure could have done worse.   Arrow really i'm not trolling you, but those are some brave statements and i can't tell if your even being serious or not when you make some of these "bold Arrow prediction threads", or if it's just a platform for discussion.   Don't get why we can't just support the team and need to be pro-anti or indifferent.   JB makes mistakes.   Maybe he just made the biggest one of his career, or maybe we win a cup.   It looks good on paper but we won't know for awhile yet will we.   Same as last year letting these guys go (which i was hoping and said he should well before it happened, the bubble was great but it sure showed me that we couldn't win with these vets).   Some of the anti-Benning stuff is pretty delusional.   So is some of the pro Benning stuff too.     I'm a realist.   I see what else is been done and try to evaluate against that.   What exactly was it again?  Poolman a top four D?  i don't even remember.   

 

Edit:  Oh yeah - "under Shaw Poolman will be better then Tanev"  

Edited August 4, 2021 by IBatch

[Isam]

3 minutes ago, Patel Bure said:

I wonder if HF Canucks poster Kanucks25 even realizes that his idol teams (Toronto, Colorado, Toronto, Tampa Bay, Toronto, Carolina, Toronto, NYI, and Toronto) also struggled for many years before becoming elite.......although Toronto still hasn’t won a playoff round since 2004.

That is alot of toronto teams man. Just only know the one

[Alflives]

6 minutes ago, Patel Bure said:

I wonder if HF Canucks poster Kanucks25 even realizes that his idol teams (Toronto, Colorado, Toronto, Tampa Bay, Toronto, Carolina, Toronto, NYI, and Toronto) also struggled for many years before becoming elite.......although Toronto still hasn’t won a playoff round since 2004.

Leafs suck old smelly socks!  Benning has drafted better than Dumbass and ShanaHAM.