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Quinn Hughes + for Colton Parayko + (extention re-signed) (proposal)


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3 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

 But one could argue that players like Matthais Ohlund, Dave Babych, Jurki Lumme, Sami Salo, Doug Lidster, Paul Reinhart, Rick Lanz, Dale Tallon, Ed Jovanovski, Kevin Bieska, Dan Hamhuis, Christain Ehrhoff, and Alex Edler brought attributes equally as important to the games as Quinn Hughes does.

 

No they couldn't argue that. Hughes is a level above all these players save for maybe Reinhart. And I say that as the biggest living Jyrki Lumme homer on the planet.

 

 

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6 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

Let's face it, we keep missing the window because we just never have all the pieces. There is no doubt that Quinn Hughes is a gifted Offensive hockey player, probably one of the best defenseman we have ever had. But one could argue that players like Matthais Ohlund, Dave Babych, Jurki Lumme, Sami Salo, Doug Lidster, Paul Reinhart, Rick Lanz, Dale Tallon, Ed Jovanovski, Kevin Bieska, Dan Hamhuis, Christain Ehrhoff, and Alex Edler brought attributes equally as important to the games as Quinn Hughes does.

 

Will Quinn Hughes end up our all-time points leader, most probably yes, but will he be able to clean up his defensive woes? IMO, not to the extent that he will be a net positive contributor. 

You can not teach size, is what most learned hockey people will say. That includes small under-size dmen, who will have to be sheltered 5 on 5.

 

If, the Canucks intend on competing now, and intend on being realistic contenders now, while players like Horvat and Miller are under contract, then we will need to reduce our negative goal differential. This is where, this trade proposals POV comes from. Yes, everyone loves Huggy, but hear me out.

 

Now, the basics of the trade are Hughes for Parayko, but the values are off, mostly because of Hughes age compared to Parayko's age, and the fact that Parayko is in his last year of his current contract. IMO, Vancouver is on the up swing, where ST. Louis is on the down turn.

 

The remaining pieces are included to even out the trade and cap hits.

 

Hughes and Poolman

 

for

 

Parayko* and StL 2022-1st

 

Parayko agrees to an extension with Vancouver of 7 years @ 8.00 million, which brings him to the age of 35

 

Hughes agrees to a new contract of 3 years at 7.50 million.

 

Canucks new defense is......................

 

Rathbone and Parayko

OEL and Hamonic

Juolevi and Myers

Hunt and Schenn

 

Just for $hits and giggles.......flame away!

 

 

 

 

Pass.
 

Throwing Rathbone to the wolves and placing him on the first pairing right from the get go is a sure fire way of ruining a perfectly good prospect.   

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2 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

Sorta like Hughes, hey?

Rathbone is a good prospect but is nowhere near the calibre of Quinn Hughes.  He could certainly be that in the future but Rathbone will need some time to develop.   
 

Even Hughes himself is not ready for top pairing duty, which is exactly why OEL was brought in.  That way, the Canucks can deploy Hughes similar to how he was deployed in 2019-20 (2nd pairing duty + 1st line PP).

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1 minute ago, Patel Bure said:

Rathbone is a good prospect but is nowhere near the calibre of Quinn Hughes.  He could certainly be that in the future but Rathbone will need some time to develop.   

Well, I am glad you can see into the future so clearly........

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25 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

Well, I am glad you can see into the future so clearly........

I can’t.

 

There is however, a difference between taking a well timed calculated risk and being completely reckless. Rathbone is a solid prospect but he’s not elite.  Why risk throwing him to the fire like that?   Let the kid develop comfortably.  The Canucks have been doing an excellent job of doing this so far, and have only pushed prospects to a level that will challenge them but not over exert them.  
 

Throwing kids to the wolves in a sink or swim environment is what the Oilers and Sabres have been doing.  


Perhaps we disagree, but I’d do the following:

 

1) For this coming season, let Rathbone log big minutes in Abbotsford.  Top pairing duty, top PP time, and perhaps even some PK time to help round out his game.  Rathbone is given the chance to be “the alpha” of Abby.  If and when one of OEL or Hughes gets injured, Rathbone gets called up to the NHL and plays on the 2nd pairing.

 

2) IF Rathbone kills it in both roles and impresses for the entire 2021-2022 season in both capacities, then, and only then, should the Canucks re-assess their options for the 22-23 season  (I.e. promoting Boner to the NHL in a second pairing capacity while exploring options in moving Hughes to solidify the right side).

 

That’s how I would personally do it but to each their own.

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7 minutes ago, Patel Bure said:

I can’t.

 

There is however, a difference between taking a well timed calculated risk and being completely reckless. Rathbone is a solid prospect but he’s not elite.  Why risk throwing him to the fire like that?   Let the kid develop comfortably.  The Canucks have been doing an excellent job of doing this so far, and have only pushed prospects to a level that will challenge them but not over exert them.  
 

Throwing kids to the wolves in a sink or swim environment is what the Oilers and Sabres have been doing.  

 

Linden, Bure, Sedins, Smyl, Frazer, and Hughes all were playing by Rathbones age

 

You can not tell how a player will respond until he is put in that spot

 

and by all account Rathbone looked great in the short window he had

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7 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

Linden, Bure, Sedins, Smyl, Frazer, and Hughes all were playing by Rathbones age

 

You can not tell how a player will respond until he is put in that spot

 

and by all account Rathbone looked great in the short window he had

Completely agree, but you can still put that player in that spot without throwing him to the wolves.

 

For example, letting Rathbone log big minutes in Abbotsford and then getting called up for 2nd pairing duty if one of Hughes or OEL gets injured.

 

Rathbone looked good at the end of last season in meaningless games.  It’s a solid start to his career but I think we need to see a bigger sample size in a more meaningful context.  For example, when the Canucks chose to proceed forward with Demko instead of Markstrom.  After a slow start when Markstrom went down, Demko started to find his game before the initial Covid outbreak in 2020.  Then, in the bubble, Demko absolutely killed it.
 

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6 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

Fox won the Norris in his 2nd year and was a + 19 in his 2nd year

 

Hughes was a -24 in his 2nd year

 

How long do we have to wait, and when he is still doing the same things in 3 years, how much will that tarnish his value?

Hughes was a -2 in 17 playoff games in the bubble so the defensive potential is there.  Also, with OEL playing the big minutes Hughes won't be up against the other team's top line as much so it should help him to better learn the defensive side of the game.  And he's still only 21 (turning 22 in October) so you don't have a finished product yet.

 

Hughes was a +14 in 2017-18 with U of Michigan so in my opinion the potential is there.  Parayko is already past his prime.  He would be fine if you are not giving up young assets, but I would never trade a young phenom or even first round picks for him.

 

Fox is 23 (turning 24 in February) so almost two years older than Quinn so he had more time to develop his game in College.  He played an extra year in the NCAA so had more time to refine his defensive game.

 

I want to see how Quinn plays this year with an improved defensive system under Shaw and also one more year of maturity.  I think he may surprise you...

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3 hours ago, D-Money said:

What's worse? Anti-vaxxers, or people who propose trading Quinn Hughes?

The people who choose to trade Quinn Hughes. If people don't want to put vaccines in THEIR bodies that's their business but trading Hughes would affect millions of Canucks fans.

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8 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

Will Quinn Hughes end up our all-time points leader, most probably yes, but will he be able to clean up his defensive woes? IMO, not to the extent that he will be a net positive contributor. 

You can not teach size, is what most learned hockey people will say. That includes small under-size dmen, who will have to be sheltered 5 on 5.

 

Just for $hits and giggles.......flame away!

 

Oh Jan can cook and so can you!! 

 

 

 

I feel you man. I def have nerves that Hughes is Tyson Barrie 2.0. The thing is I draw more comparisons to Erik Karlsson 2.0. Is Hughes great defensively meh not so much! Will he be? Probably not...... He can get better yes buuuuuuuut he's probably not gonna be much much better.  

 

What offsets this is zone control. Hughes can keep the puck moving in the right direction to throw a random number 60% of the time and another random number say 10% of the time he can do something special with the puck offensively.  So really only 30 % of the time of course I'm not a stats guy just how I watch hockey, is Hughes defending. 

 

I'm probably over compensating to illustrate my point here but If we poses the puck say 65% of the time while Hughes is on the ice his offensive abilities vastly out weigh his defensive liabilities especially if he is paired with a stalwart. 

 

To your trade as much as I like Parayko. Hughes could be the best franchise D the Canucks have ever had for years. I wouldn't want to be the guy who traded that for a guy who will demand 10+ pushing 30yo with term. Really like Paraylo though. 

 

 

 

 

 

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@janisahockeynut

 

OK so I get what you want to do, bulk up the d group. When I look back at the LA cup teams, yes they have a lot of big defensemen, but their main puck mover Pouty while technically 200lbs was a pretty soft player. 

 

So maybe instead of moving Quinn who skates better than almost anyone in the league, we can try to bulk up that group a bit another way. 

 

We could probably get someone like Manson out of ANA at the deadline e.g., for a lot less. 

 

I'm not sure we need to bet the farm on a deal moving out Quinn, lets see how the entire team defence develops next season first, we might not need to aim so high on trades. 

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18 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

Let's face it, we keep missing the window because we just never have all the pieces. There is no doubt that Quinn Hughes is a gifted Offensive hockey player, probably one of the best defenseman we have ever had. But one could argue that players like Matthais Ohlund, Dave Babych, Jurki Lumme, Sami Salo, Doug Lidster, Paul Reinhart, Rick Lanz, Dale Tallon, Ed Jovanovski, Kevin Bieska, Dan Hamhuis, Christain Ehrhoff, and Alex Edler brought attributes equally as important to the games as Quinn Hughes does.

 

Will Quinn Hughes end up our all-time points leader, most probably yes, but will he be able to clean up his defensive woes? IMO, not to the extent that he will be a net positive contributor. 

You can not teach size, is what most learned hockey people will say. That includes small under-size dmen, who will have to be sheltered 5 on 5.

 

If, the Canucks intend on competing now, and intend on being realistic contenders now, while players like Horvat and Miller are under contract, then we will need to reduce our negative goal differential. This is where, this trade proposals POV comes from. Yes, everyone loves Huggy, but hear me out.

 

Now, the basics of the trade are Hughes for Parayko, but the values are off, mostly because of Hughes age compared to Parayko's age, and the fact that Parayko is in his last year of his current contract. IMO, Vancouver is on the up swing, where ST. Louis is on the down turn.

 

The remaining pieces are included to even out the trade and cap hits.

 

Hughes and Poolman

 

for

 

Parayko* and StL 2022-1st

 

Parayko agrees to an extension with Vancouver of 7 years @ 8.00 million, which brings him to the age of 35

 

Hughes agrees to a new contract of 3 years at 7.50 million.

 

Canucks new defense is......................

 

Rathbone and Parayko

OEL and Hamonic

Juolevi and Myers

Hunt and Schenn

 

Just for $hits and giggles.......flame away!

 

 

 

 

 

38BE7501-FAC9-460F-A5AE-2B3796C8B3F1.png

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