Coyotes lose vote for new arena - future unclear

[mll]

 

Edited December 10, 2021 by mll

[mll]

 

[JM_]

1 hour ago, mll said:

 

 

yeah, not getting paid can make people "edgy" 

 

I'd make Bettman pre-pay next years taxes and arena fees if they want to stay. 

 

 

[VegasCanuck]

On 12/9/2021 at 10:08 AM, GB5 said:

In all seriousness, any Canadian city with a population over 100k would probably provide better fa  support for this team than Phoenix has.

This team has not really been given a fair shot in Phoenix. I don't know if you have ever been to the facility (I have a few times), but it's built in possibly the worst possible location of where you could have a hockey team and grow a fan base.

 

If you look at how Vegas has done, you should be able to achieve solid results, if you have the team somewhere that you have access to the population base. When they moved to where they are right now, it was under the great business concept of, "If you build it, they will come"

 

They didn't have the population base within easy access to the team, they assumed that they would be able to create an economic and housing boom out in Glendale by bringing the team out there. Then the economy tanked.

 

If the team had stayed closer to downtown Phoenix, they would likely have been self sustaining within about 6 to 8 years of moving there from Winnipeg.

[mll]

 

[-Vintage Canuck-]

 

[Ghostsof1915]

On 12/10/2021 at 10:51 AM, JM_ said:

 

yeah, not getting paid can make people "edgy" 

 

I'd make Bettman pre-pay next years taxes and arena fees if they want to stay. 

 

 

Pretty sure that's what's going on behind closed doors. 

They haven't even been approved for the Tempe project. Let alone break ground. That's probably 2-4 years away. 

So it's Gila for now, and I bet they are going to want a hell of a lot up front. 

[JM_]

2 hours ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Pretty sure that's what's going on behind closed doors. 

They haven't even been approved for the Tempe project. Let alone break ground. That's probably 2-4 years away. 

So it's Gila for now, and I bet they are going to want a hell of a lot up front. 

I mean why not? Glendale is going to lose them no matter what so I'd make them pre-pay, or go pound sand. The NHL has no leverage at all.

[nuckin_futz]

[DeNiro]

14 minutes ago, nuckin_futz said:

I hear there’s a nice one in Houston.

[iinatcc]

On 12/10/2021 at 6:13 PM, mll said:

 

I don't understand why Bettman is so defensive and over protective with the Yotes. 

 

I remember when Winnipeg got a team back he said to the Jets fanbase "this will only work if they reach a certain number of season tickets"

 

But for the Yotes despie having poor attendance and scandals like this .. everything is fine 

[Boudrias]

16 hours ago, iinatcc said:

I don't understand why Bettman is so defensive and over protective with the Yotes. 

 

I remember when Winnipeg got a team back he said to the Jets fanbase "this will only work if they reach a certain number of season tickets"

 

But for the Yotes despie having poor attendance and scandals like this .. everything is fine 

Phoenix is the #10 broadcast market in the USA. That is why Bettman doesn’t want to walk away from the area. He just signed a USA mega deal with USA broadcasters and maybe that demands exposure over all top markets. 
 

If the Yoyes ownership are looking at a new arena it will take years to build. Glendale’s refusal to extend is likely an opening negotiating position for an extension. Since finances seem to be in question they probably want guarantees. 
 

I didn’t bother looking at Houston’s market size but it is not insignificant and it has a hockey history. Texas is growing fast as well. Lots of good reasons to relocate there. I think the Yotes ownership group would sell if they could. The current configuration is a constant money drain. I don’t know what they have invested but that has to be weighed against any possible capital gain on a revitalized operation in Phoenix. It will take years. I don’t see it.

 

[MikeBossy]

On 12/27/2021 at 8:49 AM, Boudrias said:

Phoenix is the #10 broadcast market in the USA. That is why Bettman doesn’t want to walk away from the area. He just signed a USA mega deal with USA broadcasters and maybe that demands exposure over all top markets. 
 

If the Yoyes ownership are looking at a new arena it will take years to build. Glendale’s refusal to extend is likely an opening negotiating position for an extension. Since finances seem to be in question they probably want guarantees. 
 

I didn’t bother looking at Houston’s market size but it is not insignificant and it has a hockey history. Texas is growing fast as well. Lots of good reasons to relocate there. I think the Yotes ownership group would sell if they could. The current configuration is a constant money drain. I don’t know what they have invested but that has to be weighed against any possible capital gain on a revitalized operation in Phoenix. It will take years. I don’t see it.

 

Isn't Houston the 8th largest? Add in Dallas's and has to be one of the largest in the US and a great rivalry too.

[-Vintage Canuck-]

 

[aqua59]

On 12/10/2021 at 11:31 AM, VegasCanuck said:

This team has not really been given a fair shot in Phoenix. I don't know if you have ever been to the facility (I have a few times), but it's built in possibly the worst possible location of where you could have a hockey team and grow a fan base.

 

If you look at how Vegas has done, you should be able to achieve solid results, if you have the team somewhere that you have access to the population base. When they moved to where they are right now, it was under the great business concept of, "If you build it, they will come"

 

They didn't have the population base within easy access to the team, they assumed that they would be able to create an economic and housing boom out in Glendale by bringing the team out there. Then the economy tanked.

 

If the team had stayed closer to downtown Phoenix, they would likely have been self sustaining within about 6 to 8 years of moving there from Winnipeg.

What? This team hasn't been given a fair chance in Phoenix?

 

I respectfully beg to differ strongly. how many years have they been in Arizona to get it figured out? 

 

 

 

This has been an on going problem since day one. Poor owners, the wrong management to start with. They've had to go to the city for tax breaks.

 

Even with new ownership this is a present disaster. how in the hell does an organization miss that kind of a payment, oops. Sorry at that level and that level for years a pattern of

poor business practices can hardly be blamed on the city of Phoenix for not giving this franchise a fare shot. Far from it. Ownership and the league have facilitated failure at every level. You've stated the obvious about a decade too late. You make strong points but i don't think Phoenix can be to blame. 

League owners need to reign Bettmen in and tell him enough is enough.

 

The league keeps propping this crap show up.

 

One more thing, The Coyotes had a full NHL team, experienced and cohesive when they moved from Winnipeg to Phoenix unlike Vegas that had a expansion draft like no other. You're comparing apples and oranges. 

Edited January 9, 2022 by aqua59
additional comment

[VegasCanuck]

8 minutes ago, aqua59 said:

What? This team hasn't been given a fair chance in Phoenix?

 

I respectfully beg to differ strongly. how many years have they been in Arizona to get it figured out? 

 

 

 

This has been an on going problem since day one. Poor owners, the wrong management to start with. They've had to go to the city for tax breaks.

 

Even with new ownership this is a present disaster. how in the hell does an organization miss that kind of a payment, oops. Sorry at that level and that level for years a pattern of

poor business practices can hardly be blamed on the city of Phoenix for not giving this franchise a fare shot. Far from it. Ownership and the league have facilitated failure at every level. You've stated the obvious about a decade too late. You make strong points but i don't think Phoenix can be to blame. 

League owners need to reign Bettmen in and tell him enough is enough.

 

The league keeps propping this crap show up.

 

One more thing, The Coyotes had a full NHL team, experienced and cohesive when they moved from Winnipeg to Phoenix unlike Vegas that had a expansion draft like no other. You're comparing apples and oranges. 

If you read my post, it's because post ownership placed them in an area that couldn't sustain them with adequate fan base. New ownership has been trying to move them to a better area within the State, for years.

 

Get them to where the population can access them easily, and I believe, like Vegas, they will be fine!

[BlueDragon23]

Move them already!

 

Come Gary, the Coyotes failed in Arizona just accept it and move them to a better suited town! 

[Alflives]

5 minutes ago, BlueDragon23 said:

Move them already!

 

Come Gary, the Coyotes failed in Arizona just accept it and move them to a better suited town! 

The Coyotes will be in Quebec City starting the 22/23 season.  

[StanleyCupOneDay]

7 minutes ago, BlueDragon23 said:

Move them already!

 

Come Gary, the Coyotes failed in Arizona just accept it and move them to a better suited town! 

Never gonna happen. There’s a big reason the NHL tried and failed on 3 separate occasions to make a Georgia team work (I expect them to try again at some point too). Arizona is the 10th largest broadcast market in the US. They aren’t going to let any team leave from a populous state unless they are absolutely forced to regardless of the cost or attendance numbers.

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, StanleyCupOneDay said:

Never gonna happen. There’s a big reason the NHL tried and failed on 3 separate occasions to make a Georgia team work (I expect them to try again at some point too). Arizona is the 10th largest broadcast market in the US. They aren’t going to let any team leave from a populous state unless they are absolutely forced to regardless of the cost or attendance numbers.

The Coyotes don’t even get enough views watching their games to fill their rink.  They average 14,000 viewers/game.  The market might be big, but very few people care even a smidge for hockey.  Put that team in Quebec City and the rink will be full every game, and 500,000 plus will be watching on TV in that market.