Controversial names and logos in North American major leagues

[drummer4now]

18 minutes ago, MikeBossy said:

The team names are derogatory references to a culture - this isn't cancel culture it's called progress. Pretty easy for non-Indigenous people to defend these names which is sad in this day and age. Wasn't that long ago the belief was women should be barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen - we need to quit defending wrongs that need to be righted. Everyone here in Edmonton was up in arms when the football team changed their name but now all you see is Elks logo and merchandise - its time for us to move forward and quit trying to move backwards.

I’m sorry but this is cancel culture.. because a name is not infringing on someones rights. 
 

The communities in question should be honoured to have the name “blackhawks” as a team name as that term is not culturally incorrect unlike “Indians” or “Eskimo’s” 

Canceling something because you don’t like it is the definition of cancel culture. 
 

I can understand changing names or logos for the very racist names but not for simple names like “blackhawks” or braves like come on grow pair and be proud that the name is being used. 
 

Next thing you know the Canucks logo will have to be changed because it is cultural appropriation…. 
 

[Gurn]

Chicago Black Hawks

[lmm]

17 minutes ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

Waiting for Chicago to change their name to "Chicago Black Cocks", with a logo of a black rooster.  

that reminds me of a show I saw on TV this morning

Donkey Hodie

[Gurn]

9 minutes ago, drummer4now said:

The communities in question should be honoured to have the name “blackhawks” as a team name as that term is not culturally incorrect unlike “Indians” or “Eskimo’s” 

Mind If I ask just who you are, to decide what "the communities in question should be honoured" about?

Edited September 2, 2021 by gurn

[drummer4now]

1 minute ago, gurn said:

Mind If I ask just who are you to decide what "the communities in question should be honoured" about?

I am not saying anything about being in charge or decision making just voicing my opinion regarding this matter.. 

 

If I wanted to play the race card I could say I (ethnic person) have more precedent than you, but I won’t steep that low. 
 

I am just saying the cultural correct termed names and logo should not offend IMO the other ones like “Indians” or “redskins” etc.. should have never been names in the first place. 
 

The whole notion of cancel culture reeks of double standards and hypocrisy…. 

[lmm]

6 minutes ago, drummer4now said:

I’m sorry but this is cancel culture.. because a name is not infringing on someones rights. 
 

The communities in question should be honoured to have the name “blackhawks” as a team name as that term is not culturally incorrect unlike “Indians” or “Eskimo’s” 

Canceling something because you don’t like it is the definition of cancel culture. 
 

I can understand changing names or logos for the very racist names but not for simple names like “blackhawks” or braves like come on grow pair and be proud that the name is being used. 
 

Next thing you know the Canucks logo will have to be changed because it is cultural appropriation…. 
 

no, I think you have this backwards

it is cultural appropriation ( using the image of a first nations or other culture that is not yours)

it is not cancel culture unless they choose to change the names on the Stanley Cup and ignore that the Black Hawks- Eskimos ever exsisted

 

[drummer4now]

Just now, lmm said:

no, I think you have this backwards

it is cultural appropriation ( using the image of a first nations or other culture that is not yours)

it is not cancel culture unless they choose to change the names on the Stanley Cup and ignore that the Black Hawks- Eskimos ever exsisted

 

So what about the Canucks logo? 
 

or raptors logo? 
 

Im sure the dinosaurs were never consulted lol. 

[Gurn]

1 minute ago, drummer4now said:

If I wanted to play the race card I could say I (ethnic person) have more precedent than you, but I won’t steep that low. 
 

Mind if I ask just who are you to assume I'm not a visible minority?

[warrchief]

10 minutes ago, drummer4now said:

I’m sorry but this is cancel culture.. because a name is not infringing on someones rights. 
 

The communities in question should be honoured to have the name “blackhawks” as a team name as that term is not culturally incorrect unlike “Indians” or “Eskimo’s” 

Canceling something because you don’t like it is the definition of cancel culture. 
 

I can understand changing names or logos for the very racist names but not for simple names like “blackhawks” or braves like come on grow pair and be proud that the name is being used. 
 

Next thing you know the Canucks logo will have to be changed because it is cultural appropriation…. 
 

The Blackhawks logo is a stereotypical caricature that is quite harmful for many Indigenous peoples. Telling me or others to "grow a pair and be proud" is why things need to change but sure, tell me what to be proud of.

[drummer4now]

19 minutes ago, gurn said:

Mind if I ask just who are you to assume I'm not a visible minority?

I just assumed militaristic and white.

 

sorry 

18 minutes ago, warrchief said:

The Blackhawks logo is a stereotypical caricature that is quite harmful for many Indigenous peoples. Telling me or others to "grow a pair and be proud" is why things need to change but sure, tell me what to be proud of.

I am not telling you to do or accept anything just suggesting. 
 

No different than seeing First Nations peoples plastered over the Canadian flag as I have seen. 
 

Is that not a double standard? 

Edited September 2, 2021 by drummer4now

[lmm]

1 minute ago, drummer4now said:

So what about the Canucks logo? 
 

or raptors logo? 
 

Im sure the dinosaurs were never consulted lol. 

If I were to make a list, teams like the Canucks and the Canadiens would fall on my maybe list

but first I guess I should ask which Canuck logo you are refering to, the stick and rink, the flying V, the tilty skate or the orca?

it might make a difference

the Canucks, Canadiens and (Rochester) Americans refer vaguely to an entire country, so I do not think the name depicts the city, really

I could go either way on this one.

I already stated that I have no problem with animal names, so I have no problem with the Raptors

I think you are really reaching with that one

you are either trying to be funny or losing your arguement and grasping, maybe both

[drummer4now]

2 minutes ago, lmm said:

If I were to make a list, teams like the Canucks and the Canadiens would fall on my maybe list

but first I guess I should ask which Canuck logo you are refering to, the stick and rink, the flying V, the tilty skate or the orca?

it might make a difference

the Canucks, Canadiens and (Rochester) Americans refer vaguely to an entire country, so I do not think the name depicts the city, really

I could go either way on this one.

I already stated that I have no problem with animal names, so I have no problem with the Raptors

I think you are really reaching with that one

you are either trying to be funny or losing your arguement and grasping, maybe both

I was obviously referring to the “orca” logo as it is open to debate and discussion. 
 

Sure it was consulted with First Nations people’s but is it not cultural appropriation when the team is not indigenous? 
 

The raptors reference was just poorly used joke. 

[lmm]

8 minutes ago, drummer4now said:

I just assumed militaristic and white.

 

sorry 

I am not telling you anything just suggesting. 
 

No different than seeing First Nations peoples plastered over the Canadian flag as I have seen. 
 

Is that not a double standard? 

I have to say I wonder about that one

Its like a first nations person wearing a cross or the fact most Mexicans are Catholic, it is hard to reconcile

But it is not for me to tell anyone who they should worship 

But here is an expalaition about one of those flags, 

https://www.canadiannativeflag.ca/about-canadian-native-flag/

I cannot say that I agree with this view, but it is his view not mine

 

I do not believe it is the same because the FNflag is an attempt at reconciliation not appropriation

[RWMc1]

23 hours ago, MikeBossy said:

The team names are derogatory references to a culture - this isn't cancel culture it's called progress. Pretty easy for non-Indigenous people to defend these names which is sad in this day and age. Wasn't that long ago the belief was women should be barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen - we need to quit defending wrongs that need to be righted. Everyone here in Edmonton was up in arms when the football team changed their name but now all you see is Elks logo and merchandise - its time for us to move forward and quit trying to move backwards.

The term cancel culture is idiotically stupid to begin with. People who throw around that term should look up McCarthyism. Not only that but the right wing Bible thumpers have been cancelling for decades before the term was invented. They censored TV and movies and threatened anyone who defied their beliefs. Many shows were cancelled and many actors were out of jobs for standing up to them. Now the morons act like it's a new phenomena because they invented  the term "cancel culture". Basically the shoe's on the other foot and they cry like babies when people are held accountable for their words and actions.

 

 

I would like to add that I don't think all Christians are Bible thumpers, just the ones that try to force their beliefs on others. I, personally, am a believer. I chose to believe based on many years of deep thought and it was physics that was the deciding factor for me.

Edited September 2, 2021 by RWMc1

[lmm]

6 minutes ago, drummer4now said:

I was obviously referring to the “orca” logo as it is open to debate and discussion. 
 

Sure it was consulted with First Nations people’s but is it not cultural appropriation when the team is not indigenous? 
 

The raptors reference was just poorly used joke. 

OK, just wanted to be clear

I think there is a fine line that may have been crossed here, but like many things there is no black and white (oh, can I even say yhat?)

just as some first nations protest the pipeline, other support it

.

http://brentlynch.com/history/when I look at the bio, I think that Brent Lynch likely apprpriated the FN art within the Canuck logo

I did note that he and his siblings are caled a tribe in his bio, but did not find any ancestry

 

But the First Nations are a conflicted lot. After 200 years of genocide and appropriation, some are more assimilated and others more defiant

 

 

.from the "Indain Act"

“Our Indian legislation generally rests on the principle, that the aborigines are to be kept in a condition of tutelage and treated as wards or children of the State. …the true interests of the aborigines and of the State alike require that every effort should be made to aid the Red man in lifting himself out of his condition of tutelage and dependence, and that is clearly our wisdom and our duty, through education and every other means, to prepare him for a higher civilization by encouraging him to assume the privileges and responsibilities of full citizenship.”

.

From Duncan Campbell Scott

I want to get rid of the Indian problem. [...] Our objective is to continue until there is not a single Indian in Canada that has not been absorbed into the body politic and there is no Indian Question and no Indian Department.

 

 

 

I think it fair to say that the Indain Act has been successful to some degree but not fully, so that there is not one attitude from all First Nations 

As a result you will find some who identify as Canadians and other who identify with their Nations.

Fourth-fifth and sixth generations living off reserve tend to have a more conflicted view of who they are.

 

I had a buddy who called me up in 2010-11 and yelled "Indians" when the Black Hawks beat the Canucks

 

Yes, I think the Canuck logo should probably go.

Y

^{,Department of the Interior,
Annual Report for the year ended 30th June, 1876}

[Dekey Pete]

Here's another point of view

https://blackhawkup.com/2020/12/18/blackhawks-breaking-teams-logo-controversy/

 

"While people are often quick to categorize the Blackhawks’ logo as one of a number of racially motivated epithets in sports, both the team name and the logo were created to honor the rich heritage of Illinois, and the name wasn’t originally a reference to Native Americans at all.

 

 

The founder of the team, Frederic McLaughlin, came up with the name “Black Hawks” in reference to the army division he served with in World War I, which was nicknamed the Black Hawk Division. It was this army division that was originally named for a Native American, not the hockey team.

 

While the team logo is obviously based on a Native American, it is honoring the image of Chief Black Hawk, the Sauk warrior who the army division named themselves after. While other sports teams, such as the former Washington Redskins, used a name and logo that was based purely on a racist trope, the Blackhawks have tried their best to always show respect to the heritage their team came from.

 

This is why I agree with the team that the logo should stay the same. Perhaps I’m a bit biased, having been a ‘Hawks fan for so long, but leaving my bias out of the argument, the Blackhawks have done a lot to show their respect for the team’s heritage and to hold up the numerous Native American communities throughout Chicago.

 

In addition, the team has previously acknowledged that some of their old practices were in poor taste, and have taken steps to move away from these controversies. In July, the team announced that they were banning the wearing of headdresses in the United Center during games. These headdresses were widely seen as cultural appropriation, and the ‘Hawks did the right thing in banning them.

 

The history of the Chicago Blackhawks is one that is long and rich. While the team’s logo is still seen as inappropriate or even racist by some, the fact is that the ‘Hawks have done everything possible to work with the Native American community to honor and respect their heritage.

 

This is what, in my opinion, separates Chicago from so many other teams that have been mired in controversy. Hopefully, relations between the team and Native Americans will do nothing but continue to thrive."

 

[Smashian Kassian]

1 hour ago, MikeBossy said:

The team names are derogatory references to a culture - this isn't cancel culture it's called progress. Pretty easy for non-Indigenous people to defend these names which is sad in this day and age. Wasn't that long ago the belief was women should be barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen - we need to quit defending wrongs that need to be righted. Everyone here in Edmonton was up in arms when the football team changed their name but now all you see is Elks logo and merchandise - its time for us to move forward and quit trying to move backwards.

 

Is there any consideration of us just white washing everything? 

 

Also was George Vancouver not a colonizer? Maybe we should change the name of the city.

[drummer4now]

8 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said:

 

Is there any consideration of us just white washing everything? 

 

Also was George Vancouver not a colonizer? Maybe we should change the name of the city.

That is what I am trying to say it is hypocrisy, double standards, and just a never end steam of nonsense. 
 

Should we change the name of “Canada” because it is cultural appropriation and not a indigenous country?
 

Just never ending IMO. 
 

Obvious racist names/imagery need to go, but names/imagery paying homage need to stay.  

 

 

Edited September 2, 2021 by drummer4now

[lmm]

17 minutes ago, drummer4now said:

That is what I am trying to say it is hypocrisy, double standards, and just a never end steam of nonsense. 
 

Should we change the name of “Canada” because it is cultural appropriation and not a indigenous country.  
 

Just never ending IMO. 
 

Racist names/imagery need to go, but names paying homage and respect need to stay.  

 

 

Given the First Nation oppession has been going on for 200 years in Canada

your claim that this is "Never Ending" seems a bit premature

 

[Ghostsof1915]

 

They can say it's this as Black Hawks. 

Edited September 2, 2021 by Ghostsof1915