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BC Teen actor Logan Williams (played the kid in the newer TV adaptation of The Flash/Barry Allen) dies of accidental overdose


Dazzle
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11 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/health/medical/b-c-teen-actor-logan-williams-died-of-fentanyl-overdose-coroner-s-report-finds/ar-AAOgPDl?ocid=hplocalnews

 

Died way too young. Apparently this was last year's news, but only was announced today. I have no idea what this guy went through, but some people cannot control themselves. Can we start talking about making drug addiction a medical/mental issue?

 

I forgot that Jason Botchford also died of fentanyl (he used cocaine in addition to that). Drugs are dangerous when misused, and when they are obtained by illicit means, the users have no idea how much of the drugs they're taking, so this results in them ODing. At the same time, drugs are only a symptom of the problem, so banning them is useless. Legalize/decriminalize the drugs so there is transparency in what is out there for those who use them.

 

 

I 100% agree, put the money they are spending on stopping drugs into mental health programs and I believe we will hear a lot less of these stories with tragic endings.

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6 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/health/medical/b-c-teen-actor-logan-williams-died-of-fentanyl-overdose-coroner-s-report-finds/ar-AAOgPDl?ocid=hplocalnews

 

Died way too young. Apparently this was last year's news, but only was announced today. I have no idea what this guy went through, but some people cannot control themselves. Can we start talking about making drug addiction a medical/mental issue?

 

I forgot that Jason Botchford also died of fentanyl (he used cocaine in addition to that). Drugs are dangerous when misused, and when they are obtained by illicit means, the users have no idea how much of the drugs they're taking, so this results in them ODing. At the same time, drugs are only a symptom of the problem, so banning them is useless. Legalize/decriminalize the drugs so there is transparency in what is out there for those who use them.

Legalization is a good idea but we as a country are still far away from being able to legalize things like cocaine, heroine or meth. Legalization might not stop the problem with fentanyl either depending on how it's handled. The problem is there is so much fentanyl being sold cheaply to the Canada/US from Chinese manufacturers illegal drug dealers use it as filler with more expensive drugs. A shady corporation might do something similar.

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1 minute ago, Kurgom said:

Legalization is a good idea but we as a country are still far away from being able to legalize things like cocaine, heroine or meth. Legalization might not stop the problem with fentanyl either depending on how it's handled. The problem is there is so much fentanyl being sold cheaply to the Canada/US from Chinese manufacturers illegal drug dealers use it as filler with more expensive drugs. A shady corporation might do something similar.

we need legalization or decriminalization for users coupled with a safe supply option to stop people from dying. Keeping people alive would seem to me to be the priority, not old notions of what should be illegal. 

 

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1 hour ago, thrago said:

I 100% agree, put the money they are spending on stopping drugs into mental health programs and I believe we will hear a lot less of these stories with tragic endings.

Maybe putting this kind of money, access in a 15 or 16 year old? Is a formula we have seen put lots of child superstars at risk. Including partying with older folks.

 

Logan was in a position to have had access to mental health care. More so than most within this age bracket. 

 

 

I am not necessarily against decriminalization.  When a young adult dies of an overdose does not strike me as the time to beat this particular drum? As some are here. I would argue his lifestyle and support system are more likely to have failed. Who was he getting high with & where was he?

 

He was underage. It was covert and always going to be even if some level of legalization took place. Nor is the type of drug laced with fentanyl going to be first available at a Greens party bookstore when it is. Policing the supply chain is absolutely relevant here. 

 

Fair discussion IMO.  

 

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12 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

When a young adult dies of an overdose does not strike me as the time to beat this particular drum?

The teen in question, died last year, the coroner report has just been released today.

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1 minute ago, gurn said:

The teen in question, died last year, the coroner report has just been released today.

A teenager OD'ing is not the right forum to discuss legalization then. Its a teen life, last year or this? Nor again do I suspect Opiodes of any kind will be first legalized either.

 

It's opportunistic. I'm disappointed the subject was raised. I don't suspect I will change my opinion on that. 

 

Not cocaine either. I support heroine as a target drug for addiction treatment and support. I support safe needle and injection sites.

 

 

The type of support this kid needed has little to do access and legal controls. Kids need help long before those.            

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So again?  Who was this kid with. And where was he when he was getting high...

 

Kids need a support network. You cannot discipline and provide enough love to save every kid? I know the argument about kids from the projects in Detroit or Spokane. Dad dead, or in jail. Mum working two jobs, not home when Johnny gets home from school. Or high herself. Johnny gets picked up by gang activity, is high or out on the streets when mum gets home. Violence and pressure in the streets. That was not the case here, this was a family in Coquitlam?

 

I read, listened actually, to a audio tape about support for your kids. Most ''bad'' things happen to kids after midnight.  Especially 17 and under.  So how do you deal with that?  Get them home by midnight.  This tape (its how old it was) said set a curfew. But if they were due home at 11?  You better not be drunk at the bar. They show up, be there to give them a hug. Regardless of whether they were high.  And dont mention it.  Take them somewhere cool the next day. As long as they get home. It might not be drugs that's bad? Could be rape. A brawl. Someone steals a purse. Jumping in the back seat for a ride home, then the driver has drinks, stops at another party on the way home?  95% of the really bad stuff happened after midnight, it made sense.

 

When my daughter was 16?  There was a good two year period where my wife or I, always one of us. Never had a single Friday drink. Most Saturdays. Took turns. Picked her up. Picked up her friends when necessary, no questions asked. Had all her friends in our speed dial, would take them home too. Had the parties in our garage when necessary. You need kids home safely... 

 

 

 

Our family also had experience with a 16 year old relative who died of an overdose. A cousin of my wife passed. That girls mum used to take pills at the bar herself.  The lifestyle was visible. That girls friend & sister were with boyfriends when she ended up with '' a friend'' who fed her the drugs.16! They feel horrible to this day. 

 

I also have a friend I'll call ''Barry'' who's kid is in jail 25. Had ADD from age 5. Prescribed Ritalyn (spelling?), anti depressants, therapy. They loved him to death. He use to smoke dope to calm himself down, year 7.  They did not support it, seemed little they could do. He did not die in a car crash at 4 AM though.

 

My point remains legalizing drugs is unlikely the solution to a kid from a good family with a drug problem at 16/17. 

 

Successful or unsuccessful, the best chance is a support network. Will save more kids.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Kurgom said:

Legalization is a good idea but we as a country are still far away from being able to legalize things like cocaine, heroine or meth. Legalization might not stop the problem with fentanyl either depending on how it's handled. The problem is there is so much fentanyl being sold cheaply to the Canada/US from Chinese manufacturers illegal drug dealers use it as filler with more expensive drugs. A shady corporation might do something similar.

There is no way a corporation is taking on that liability and the standard to being to make such would stringent. Anyone allowed to make hard drugs you would think would be under scrutiny. 

 

The Mexican cartels are into fentanyl too. The drugs are coming into both US and Canada pre cut with this stuff if via Mexico and then you have pieces of $&!# adding it here too. 

 

People in this thread are talking addiction. Overdoses from fentanyl hit people of all kinds from addicts to recreational users to first timers. The only way to get around this fentanyl issue is legit made drug options. Hell people are now just taking fentanyl too. Just a sad situation all around. 

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1 hour ago, Canuck Surfer said:

A teenager OD'ing is not the right forum to discuss legalization then. Its a teen life, last year or this? Nor again do I suspect Opiodes of any kind will be first legalized either.

 

It's opportunistic. I'm disappointed the subject was raised. I don't suspect I will change my opinion on that. 

 

Not cocaine either. I support heroine as a target drug for addiction treatment and support. I support safe needle and injection sites.

 

 

The type of support this kid needed has little to do access and legal controls. Kids need help long before those.            

Thing is, people of all ages need help before they get into the throes of addiction. But even with supports in place there will always be individuals who fall through the cracks for various reasons. Not everyone has access to resources, some aren't trusting of authorities, stigma and shame enter the equation. Culture, family, spirituality, religion. 

 

There need to be more resources, but a shifting of attitudes towards drugs and addiction would be massive as well. Stigma and addiction walk hand in hand, as do trauma and addiction. 

 

This is about as far as I'm gonna go with my two cents, but when people overdose decriminalization and a clean supply of drugs absolutely enters the equation for me. People are going to find ways to use, they always will, that's where harm reduction and more supports come in.

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Interesting discussion...  

 

Most people that I know who pass away from drugs (unfortunately too many within two degrees of separation) usually did so because of fentanyl.  It only takes a small trace amount and most of the time it's found with cocaine. 

 

I've had a few coworkers found that had died of heart attacks (in the 30s and 40s), who were abusing drugs (too much, too often).  

 

 

I've done a laundry list of different things throughout my 20s and 30s (in a pretty responsible way, I'd like to think), and I have to say that I really don't like anything to do with coke.  It's a crappy drug that doesn't last long, is very expensive and ends up ruining your night of partying because people that are into it dedicate the whole evening to getting more.  On top of that, it's one of the most likely drugs to contain traces of something that's very toxic.  

Coke also ends up being one of the most addictive substances for people that get into it.  My old upstairs neighbour would always disappear to do a bump even if there was a group of us hanging out and doing something fun...  and try and hide it from his friends.  

 

Just my two cents from a different perspective perhaps.  

 

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1 hour ago, Coconuts said:

when people overdose decriminalization and a clean supply of drugs absolutely enters the equation for me

This is just it?

 

He had not hit his 17th birthday. Apparently had been addicted for 3 plus years, started when he was 13. No outlet, legal or otherwise is selling him drugs.  

 

13? Even if he were in Amsterdam a safe site was not going to make any difference. Where he could get pot. Pot, not opioids. He died of Fentanyl overdose.

 

 

Even the most liberalized places only decriminalize possession.  Even then, fewer, almost none have extended clemency to cocaine, synthetic drugs like extacy, MDMA, opioids, heroin, molly, cocaine.  Its still hoods, motorcycle & street, gangs, thugs.  Who cut in ''extenders'' safe and otherwise.

 

The time to ''save'' Logan would have involved getting lucky.  Cutting it in the bud when he was 13. Restricting who he was partying with and monitoring what he was doing. By all reports the mother cared. Mortgaged her house to sent him to a treatment facility when he was 15. Once he was addicted it was too late.

 

 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

This is just it?

 

He had not hit his 17th birthday. Apparently had been addicted for 3 plus years, started when he was 13. No outlet, legal or otherwise is selling him drugs.  

 

13? Even if he were in Amsterdam a safe site was not going to make any difference. Where he could get pot. Pot, not opioids. He died of Fentanyl overdose.

 

 

Even the most liberalized places only decriminalize possession.  Even then, fewer, almost none have extended clemency to cocaine, synthetic drugs like extacy, MDMA, opioids, heroin, molly, cocaine.  Its still hoods, motorcycle & street, gangs, thugs.  Who cut in ''extenders'' safe and otherwise.

 

The time to ''save'' Logan would have involved getting lucky.  Cutting it in the bud when he was 13. Restricting who he was partying with and monitoring what he was doing. By all reports the mother cared. Mortgaged her house to sent him to a treatment facility when he was 15. Once he was addicted it was too late.

 

 

 

 

No, that's not it, if you go back and read my post again I specifically mentioned there's a need for more resources. Addiction isn't a cut and dry topic, ever. 

 

As a parent, all one can do is their best. Sounds like she tried that. Even with monitoring and restrictions, people still fall through the cracks. 

 

Addiction and how it should be tackled is an incredibly complex and multifaceted thing.

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What people have to think about? This kid was 12 and 13 years old & had drug buddies.  Addicted, to opioids no less, at 13. 

 

It is a safe bet most around were older. His buddies, dealers, supply chain. He was famous, hangers on? 

 

This rests with them! Blood on their hands.

    

 

And him. He has to say no at 13. The resources needed are guidance councilors, chaperones at the film set. Locker checks at school. 

 

Positive role models, things to do. To spend time with.

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10 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

So again?  Who was this kid with. And where was he when he was getting high...

 

Kids need a support network. You cannot discipline and provide enough love to save every kid? I know the argument about kids from the projects in Detroit or Spokane. Dad dead, or in jail. Mum working two jobs, not home when Johnny gets home from school. Or high herself. Johnny gets picked up by gang activity, is high or out on the streets when mum gets home. Violence and pressure in the streets. That was not the case here, this was a family in Coquitlam?

 

I read, listened actually, to a audio tape about support for your kids. Most ''bad'' things happen to kids after midnight.  Especially 17 and under.  So how do you deal with that?  Get them home by midnight.  This tape (its how old it was) said set a curfew. But if they were due home at 11?  You better not be drunk at the bar. They show up, be there to give them a hug. Regardless of whether they were high.  And dont mention it.  Take them somewhere cool the next day. As long as they get home. It might not be drugs that's bad? Could be rape. A brawl. Someone steals a purse. Jumping in the back seat for a ride home, then the driver has drinks, stops at another party on the way home?  95% of the really bad stuff happened after midnight, it made sense.

 

When my daughter was 16?  There was a good two year period where my wife or I, always one of us. Never had a single Friday drink. Most Saturdays. Took turns. Picked her up. Picked up her friends when necessary, no questions asked. Had all her friends in our speed dial, would take them home too. Had the parties in our garage when necessary. You need kids home safely... 

 

 

 

Our family also had experience with a 16 year old relative who died of an overdose. A cousin of my wife passed. That girls mum used to take pills at the bar herself.  The lifestyle was visible. That girls friend & sister were with boyfriends when she ended up with '' a friend'' who fed her the drugs.16! They feel horrible to this day. 

 

I also have a friend I'll call ''Barry'' who's kid is in jail 25. Had ADD from age 5. Prescribed Ritalyn (spelling?), anti depressants, therapy. They loved him to death. He use to smoke dope to calm himself down, year 7.  They did not support it, seemed little they could do. He did not die in a car crash at 4 AM though.

 

My point remains legalizing drugs is unlikely the solution to a kid from a good family with a drug problem at 16/17. 

 

Successful or unsuccessful, the best chance is a support network. Will save more kids.

 

 

I'm not trying to put you down in anyway at all, It sounds like you have had a good life so far and that is great.  That being said it is clear that your world view is very narrow and in a lot of ways I hope that it stays that way for you.  The thing is people who are addicted to drugs, and I hate the word addicted because it is the wrong word, it's not like these drugs have some kind of strangle hold on these people, like they tried them one day and they became addicted and this ruined there lives.  These people are in such Mental and or Physical pain that the drugs are the only solace these people have been able to find. 

 

Imagine for a minute if you can that your 4 years old, your in bed and your door slowly opens and your (mother, father, uncle, aunt, sister, brother etc) sneaks in and starts to touch you sexually this continue month after month, year after year and your close family might even know about it but no one does anything to stop it.  Can anyone blame this person for turning to drugs at some point in their lives?  This is only 1 of 1000's of things that could drive someone to drugs and far from the worse.  Drug abuse (much better word then addiction) is almost always if not always associated to mental health.  A lot of these people have never had anyone close to them show them any Love and live life believing they do not deserve help in any way from anyone.  In my opinion the least we can do for these people is make sure that the drugs they use to escape the pain are clean and have a lessor chance of killing them and make every effort to get them help when and if there comes a time they are feel they are worthy of receiving it.  

 

Life for some people can be so hard that can't bare it and drugs offer some escape,  some of these people if not a lot of these people are hoping that the next shot of heroin (or whatever they are using) will kill them.  They don't want to be alive but are too afraid to commit suicide, largely out of spite in that they don't want to give the people who abused them the pleasure of being right on how useless they are, so if it is an accident in their minds this goes away.    Ultimately these people do not deserve to be judged, they deserve sympathy and kindness.  Something a lot of them have never been given and until society recognizes this something unfortunately a lot will never receive.  I could write a thesis on this but I will stop here.

 

I truly hope that those of you with good lives continue to do so, but also hope that the next time you think of these poor people you do so with love and understanding.  Sorry Canuck surfer most of this is not directed at you rather society in general and the shift in thinking I believe we need to make to help stop some of these tragedies from happening.  

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6 hours ago, thrago said:

Life for some people can be so hard that can't bare it and drugs offer some escape

Slipping pills to a tortured kid? Perhaps abused by a priest, or hockey coach won't be any solution. Even assuming that was the case?

 

Would just make issues worse.

 

As it wrecks a good kid who just wants to be cool. Which happens ten times more often. And probably was here, a high flying kid in rich circles, older friends. Send him to school after a coke binge, MDMA. He's not going to exhibit good behaviour or judgement. If lucky just lacking sleep. He'll have pounding headaches, get in fights, be dehydrated, argue, feel lost, exhausted. That is where most real mental problems start. If you think otherwise you are fooling yourself.

 

Instead he'll just get high again.

 

That will be great, won't it?  

 

 

The drugs are the cause of the problem way more often than an outlet. A discussion about support for someone with actual depression is one thing. Discussions about legalization in the context of a kid addicted to opioids at 13. Is a mind numbingly a bad idea. I would really appreciate if we talked about actual supports. 

 

How would you disrupt that cycle?

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9 hours ago, thrago said:

I'm not trying to put you down in anyway at all, It sounds like you have had a good life so far and that is great.  That being said it is clear that your world view is very narrow and in a lot of ways I hope that it stays that way for you.  The thing is people who are addicted to drugs, and I hate the word addicted because it is the wrong word, it's not like these drugs have some kind of strangle hold on these people, like they tried them one day and they became addicted and this ruined there lives.  These people are in such Mental and or Physical pain that the drugs are the only solace these people have been able to find. 

 

Imagine for a minute if you can that your 4 years old, your in bed and your door slowly opens and your (mother, father, uncle, aunt, sister, brother etc) sneaks in and starts to touch you sexually this continue month after month, year after year and your close family might even know about it but no one does anything to stop it.  Can anyone blame this person for turning to drugs at some point in their lives?  This is only 1 of 1000's of things that could drive someone to drugs and far from the worse.  Drug abuse (much better word then addiction) is almost always if not always associated to mental health.  A lot of these people have never had anyone close to them show them any Love and live life believing they do not deserve help in any way from anyone.  In my opinion the least we can do for these people is make sure that the drugs they use to escape the pain are clean and have a lessor chance of killing them and make every effort to get them help when and if there comes a time they are feel they are worthy of receiving it.  

 

Life for some people can be so hard that can't bare it and drugs offer some escape,  some of these people if not a lot of these people are hoping that the next shot of heroin (or whatever they are using) will kill them.  They don't want to be alive but are too afraid to commit suicide, largely out of spite in that they don't want to give the people who abused them the pleasure of being right on how useless they are, so if it is an accident in their minds this goes away.    Ultimately these people do not deserve to be judged, they deserve sympathy and kindness.  Something a lot of them have never been given and until society recognizes this something unfortunately a lot will never receive.  I could write a thesis on this but I will stop here.

 

I truly hope that those of you with good lives continue to do so, but also hope that the next time you think of these poor people you do so with love and understanding.  Sorry Canuck surfer most of this is not directed at you rather society in general and the shift in thinking I believe we need to make to help stop some of these tragedies from happening.  

From the point of view of a person that abused drugs,I agree with you that Is a better term than addiction,I agree with what some of what you state.

I can also state that I have witnessed teens that were good kids,from loving families,involved in sport then tried a drug,ice,and it totally screwed their lives.

Ice had a total  stranglehold on their lives and for some of them it still does.

Their families,some of them my friends have given them plenty of love and support.

Some have recovered some have not.

I have had people I know had to take out intervention orders on their kids,the people they love most,because they harass, them beat them up when they will not give them money to fuel their habit.

 

I admire your compassionate nature however i can state with total certainty that drugs can have stranglehold on a person's life and I have witnessed this first hand.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

Slipping pills to a tortured kid? Perhaps abused by a priest, or hockey coach won't be any solution. Even assuming that was the case?

 

Would just make issues worse.

 

As it wrecks a good kid who just wants to be cool. Which happens ten times more often. And probably was here, a high flying kid in rich circles, older friends. Send him to school after a coke binge, MDMA. He's not going to exhibit good behaviour or judgement. If lucky just lacking sleep. He'll have pounding headaches, get in fights, be dehydrated, argue, feel lost, exhausted. That is where most real mental problems start. If you think otherwise you are fooling yourself.

 

Instead he'll just get high again.

 

That will be great, won't it?  

 

 

The drugs are the cause of the problem way more often than an outlet. A discussion about support for someone with actual depression is one thing. Discussions about legalization in the context of a kid addicted to opioids at 13. Is a mind numbingly a bad idea. I would really appreciate if we talked about actual supports. 

 

How would you disrupt that cycle?

Wasn’t it actually an MD who killed MJ with drugs?  

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5 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

From the point of view of a person that abused drugs,I agree with you that Is a better term than addiction,I agree with what some of what you state.

I can also state that I have witnessed teens that were good kids,from loving families,involved in sport then tried a drug,ice,and it totally screwed their lives.

Ice had a total  stranglehold on their lives and for some of them it still does.

Their families,some of them my friends have given them plenty of love and support.

Some have recovered some have not.

I have had people I know had to take out intervention orders on their kids,the people they love most,because they harass, them beat them up when they will not give them money to fuel their habit.

 

I admire your compassionate nature however i can state with total certainty that drugs can have stranglehold on a person's life and I have witnessed this first hand.

 

 

Totally agree.  Illicit drugs are seriously bad news.  Don’t know why, but some kids just get caught up in this tragedy, when so many others from equal circumstances don’t.  Both sides of the tracks, so to speak.  

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