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[DEBATE] Who is the greatest COACH in Vancouver Canucks history?

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Elias Pettersson

Who is the greatest COACH in Vancouver Canucks history?  

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13 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Ummm you do realize that Quinn never won a Cup right?  I love the guy and everything but to compare him to Scotty Bowman, Al Arbour, Toe Blake and Joel Quenneville is a little bit disingenous.

 

Pat Quinn does not have the resume of those coaches.  In order to achieve greatness you have to win the ultimate prize.  Unfortunately, Quinn never accomplished that in his career.

 

As for Vancouver, it is close between Quinn and Vigneault.  You can't say that it is so one sided that you can't even have a conversation.  Vigneault won a Jack Adams award just like Quinn, he is the winningest coach in Vancouver Canucks history, has the best winning percentage of any coach including Quinn and also went to the Stanley Cup finals game 7, just like Quinn.  They are not miles apart.  You can make an argument for either one.  This poll will be alot close than the GM poll.

One thing those coaches don't have - and no coach will ever have is a 35 game unbeaten streak.  Bowman coached the best dynasty ever - so could Quin if he had the chance.   Arbour the third best one - same thing.   Of course they are great coaches - same with Toe Blake.   Quin was highly respected by his peers and his players...and did have some success at the international level.   IMO he's the best players coach ever.  

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5 hours ago, dm_ranger said:

One thing about AV is the accent of the twins during his term.  How much of his success is based on them, or how much of their rise is based on how he deployed them, got them the match-up and helped them become really dominate players?

 

This is not trying to take away the recognition of either the twins or AV.  Easier to be a great coach when you have great players.  Easier to be a great player when your coach sets you up to succeed.  

Pavel Bure and Trevor Linden are not considered great players?

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3 hours ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

The thing with Quinn's teams was that they didn't get pushed around/bullied.  Look at even when Quinn was coach of the Laffs.  *They* were the team that intimidated the Sens.  That 94 team didn't just have skill but they had alot of tough guys as well.  Granted, now I'm getting into more of Quinn's work as a GM (him getting those players).

That is the biggest issue with Quinn.  He did his best work as a GM so it's hard to separate that with his time as a coach.  Quinn had his ups and downs as a coach as well, it wasn't all rosy.  He wasn't perfect.  A great player's coach for sure, one of the best.  But when you compare his coaching numbers to Vigneault's, Vigneault comes out ahead.  And they both had great players to work with so I don't buy the argument that only Vigneault had the luxury of great players.  Quinn's teams in 1991-92 and 1992-93 were dominant.

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14 minutes ago, IBatch said:

One thing those coaches don't have - and no coach will ever have is a 35 game unbeaten streak.  Bowman coached the best dynasty ever - so could Quin if he had the chance.   Arbour the third best one - same thing.   Of course they are great coaches - same with Toe Blake.   Quin was highly respected by his peers and his players...and did have some success at the international level.   IMO he's the best players coach ever.  

That was an unbelievable streak.  Unfortunately he wasn't able to turn that team into a Stanley Cup champion.  Not winning a Stanley Cup was Quinn's biggest "miss" in his career and is the reason you cannot put him in the same category with the greatest NHL coaches of all time.

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2 hours ago, gurn said:

Quinn and Alain V are  a coin toss, I went with Quinn because for some time he was the coach, and GM and Club President.

 

 

Then Roger Neilson and Crawford are the next tier, also a pick em.

 

 

 

I couldn't help but notice the absence of Bill LaForge  on this poll.

Hey just because he lasted only 20 games while ruining our 40 goal man Darcy Rota, doesn't mean he should be excluded. :unsure:

It was a tough call, but ultimately I decided to leave him off the list.  I added Tom Renney to take his place...  :)

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2 hours ago, -AJ- said:

Thanks for sharing. I never realized how short a time Quinn was our coach for. I'm actually switching my vote to AV as a result.

Yes unless you do the research some people can be confused as Quinn was also our GM, and he was our GM for alot longer than he was our coach.  He only coached the team for 3 years.  That's why I could not pick him over AV...

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AV or Quinn. 

I boils down to a players coach vs. a strategical coach, (or whatever is the opposite of a players coach).

 

Both were great at each of their approaches to coaching.

The difference is that AV's approach was done very well, but is not original or special. A Pat Quinn only comes along once in a generation. He was a special kind of man. That helped make others into men.  And he didn't use head games or playing favourites like AV, and a lot of coaches did and do.  Quinn didn't have to, because players went to the wall for him regardless.

 

Even Bure, who gave an emotional tribute to Quinn, admired him and gave him credit as a coach, even when as a GM, he oversaw his minions like McPhee and Burke as they dissed him, played hardball from day one,  and tried to take advantage of him. That says a lot for him as a coach that he STILL had Bure's respect and admiration.

 

So because of that rare certain something beyond just knowing and preaching the x's and o's, Quinn gets my vote. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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19 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

That was an unbelievable streak.  Unfortunately he wasn't able to turn that team into a Stanley Cup champion.  Not winning a Stanley Cup was Quinn's biggest "miss" in his career and is the reason you cannot put him in the same category with the greatest NHL coaches of all time.

Came close twice.   So did AV... PHI was supposed to be long gone .... i remember.   MTL was a total powerhouse - Dryden talks about it in his book...put half the team on one side of the ice - the other half on the other and it was like two all-star teams, better then 90% of the competition.   Let goals in on purpose just to challenge his team during the regular season.   But PHI got a massive boost when Pat Quin took over and it wasn't the roster, it wasn't as good as their cup teams.    The emerging NYI had to do it the hard way.    AV had a great team to coach was also a great coach.   I have no doubt in my mind Quin wasn't also a great coach - he proved that in PHI ... and again in Vancouver.   Those early 90's teams were better then the sum of their parts thanks in part to Quin.   For me at least he's the greatest coach and GM this team has ever had.   How many post season games did his teams win compared to the WCE and Sedin teams?  When it mattered, he out coached the rest. 

 

Edit:  Also pretty sure - but i'm too lazy to check - that his TO teams set records too for their teams.   Even now with the loser points, the only time they did as well was with Quin behind the bench (in the regular season). 

Edited by IBatch
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21 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

That was an unbelievable streak.  Unfortunately he wasn't able to turn that team into a Stanley Cup champion.  Not winning a Stanley Cup was Quinn's biggest "miss" in his career and is the reason you cannot put him in the same category with the greatest NHL coaches of all time.

Oh and im not putting him in that bracket and wouldn't dare.   Have to win.   The greatest Canucks coach is Quin.   The greatest GM is also Quin.  Until we win a cup i don't see that changing. 

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Remember the early days of AV?

 

"AV only knows how to coach defense!".....and "Defend the 0-0 tie!" (right up there with the "Sedin Sisters" as the stupidest thing so-called Canuck fans have ever said).....

 

But then, his team evolved. The twins turned into MVP calibre players, Kes became a Selke threat.....a couple of shrewd trades and signings and all of a sudden, AV was presiding over the best offense in hockey....

 

Never mind Canuck coaches, name me any other coach who completely flipped his style to match his personnel like that....

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23 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Who is the greatest COACH in Vancouver Canucks history?

 

Haha, you knew this one was coming next right?  :)

 

Who you got?  Who is the greatest one of them all?  Remember you can only pick one.  Have fun and enjoy...  :)

Another great poll, EP.

 

Gotta go with Pat Quinn.  HM to Alain Vigneault.  Burke/Nonis/Gillis provided AV with arguably the most talented cast of players assembled.  I believe in my heart of hearts, Pat Quinn brings home the cup with the 2011 Canucks.

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6 hours ago, RUPERTKBD said:

Remember the early days of AV?

 

"AV only knows how to coach defense!".....and "Defend the 0-0 tie!" (right up there with the "Sedin Sisters" as the stupidest thing so-called Canuck fans have ever said).....

 

But then, his team evolved. The twins turned into MVP calibre players, Kes became a Selke threat.....a couple of shrewd trades and signings and all of a sudden, AV was presiding over the best offense in hockey....

 

Never mind Canuck coaches, name me any other coach who completely flipped his style to match his personnel like that....

Off the top of my mind...Mike Sullivan, circa Bruins (2003-2004 and 2005-2006) vs. Penguins (2015 to present).

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10 minutes ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

 

If not for Burrows and his shorthanded goal against Carolina that basically saved Vigneault's bacon, he wouldn't have even had the opportunity to get to the '11 SCF.  I'm also firmly in the camp of the team making it to the finals in spite of (and not because of) Vigneault.  He was still doing the "more of the same, maybe it'll change the tide" approach, when it was actually team creativity (and Kesler carrying them on his back against Nashville) and Luongo's clutch saves that propelled them into the SCF; they'd still be defending the 0-0 tie if it were up to Vigneault.

 

So yeah, if Burrows hadn't scored that goal, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now, because Vigneault would've been fired either before or during the '09 offseason.  It's just dumb luck that he had a saviour in Burrows.

 

Well if Bure doesn't score that overtime goal in game 7 then Quinn doesn't go to the '94 SCF either.  Works both ways...

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4 minutes ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

If not for Burrows and his shorthanded goal against Carolina that basically saved Vigneault's bacon, he wouldn't have even had the opportunity to get to the '11 SCF.  I'm also firmly in the camp of the team making it to the finals in spite of (and not because of) Vigneault.  He was still doing the "more of the same, maybe it'll change the tide" approach, when it was actually team creativity (and Kesler carrying them on his back against Nashville) and Luongo's clutch saves that propelled them into the SCF; they'd still be defending the 0-0 tie if it were up to Vigneault.

 

So yeah, if Burrows hadn't scored that goal, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now, because Vigneault would've been fired either before or during the '09 offseason.  It's just dumb luck that he had a saviour in Burrows.

 

Yeah...."if this had happened".....but it didn't...

 

Now lets talk about what did happen....2 Straight Presidents trophies....2011: Led the league in GF.....led the league in GA....best PP% in hockey....2nd best PK.....

 

And I reiterate: The people who use that "defend the 0-0 tie" are morons....

 

 

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9 hours ago, RUPERTKBD said:

Yeah...."if this had happened".....but it didn't...

 

Now lets talk about what did happen....2 Straight Presidents trophies....2011: Led the league in GF.....led the league in GA....best PP% in hockey....2nd best PK.....

 

And I reiterate: The people who use that "defend the 0-0 tie" are morons....

 

 

If Snepsts hadn't passed to Mike Bossy....ah ****, who am I kidding.  We still would've lost that Finals in 1982 anyways.:lol:

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