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Elias Pettersson | Quinn Hughes - Contract Discussion Thread

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3 hours ago, combover said:

these are two players we need to win these are the two corner stones of this franchise 

these aren’t the players you cheap out on and “ask” for a deal.

Could you elaborate on what makes them special compared to guys like H. Sedin, D. Sedin, Kesler, Bieksa who were all asked, and agreed, to "a deal"? 

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44 minutes ago, CanucksJay said:

Or.... 

 

They see Petterson and Hughes signed to good cap hits and see that we are fielding a very strong team that still has enough capspace to re-sign them so they stay on and also sign reasonable contracts because

 

1) this is a championship calibre team

2)they like Vancouver and their teammates

3)vancouver is already a known entity. 

 

I would argue that giving Hughes and Petterson larger contracts will actually lead to our next set of UFAs leaving as they too would want to get paid even if that means elsewhere. 

This is very likely...

For all the negatives of MG, he did get players to buy into the idea of team friendly contracts (all be it at lots NTCs and NMCs)....

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20 minutes ago, CanucksJay said:

Or.... 

 

They see Petterson and Hughes signed to good cap hits and see that we are fielding a very strong team that still has enough capspace to re-sign them so they stay on and also sign reasonable contracts because

 

1) this is a championship calibre team

2)they like Vancouver and their teammates

3)vancouver is already a known entity. 

 

I would argue that giving Hughes and Petterson larger contracts will actually lead to our next set of UFAs leaving as they too would want to get paid even if that means elsewhere. 

Absolutely, but players also want a contract that is fair for them. They recognize that they have a limited window in their lives to make money, they also know that they are only one bad hit or fall from losing their entire careers. 

 

I want them signed as soon as possible but I also expect them to sign a fair contract for both parties. I fully expect something along the rumoured 3×8 for Petey and 8×8 for Hughes. I also don't expect anything to happen for about a week or so. Holding out is about the only leverage an RFA like Hughes, who can't be offer sheeted, has to get a fair contract. 

 

Pulling offers or low balling them with a contract that there is no way the players would sign so they end up sitting the whole season is technically an option but it's the worst possible option. It shows the players that management doesn't care about them or icing the best possible team. It also let's the players know that management has no intention of paying them a fair price, and that's when every single player that isn't grossly overpaid will walk away from this team at the earliest possibility. 

 

Obviously if they are holding out and asking for an exorbitant amount then that's a different story but if they are just holding out to make sure they get a fair contract then this really isn't a big deal and it will get sorted out just like every other RFA contract JB has done.

 

Just remember a fair deal usually means both sides feel like they lost.

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11 minutes ago, spook007 said:

This is very likely...

For all the negatives of MG, he did get players to buy into the idea of team friendly contracts (all be it at lots NTCs and NMCs)....

I mean do Huggy (with his bros in NJ), and Petey (considering he seems to be OK with playing anywhere as long as the team is competitive), even want NTC's??

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3 minutes ago, 204CanucksFan said:

Absolutely, but players also want a contract that is fair for them. They recognize that they have a limited window in their lives to make money, they also know that they are only one bad hit or fall from losing their entire careers. 

 

I want them signed as soon as possible but I also expect them to sign a fair contract for both parties. I fully expect something along the rumoured 3×8 for Petey and 8×8 for Hughes. I also don't expect anything to happen for about a week or so. Holding out is about the only leverage an RFA like Hughes, who can't be offer sheeted, has to get a fair contract. 

 

Pulling offers or low balling them with a contract that there is no way the players would sign so they end up sitting the whole season is technically an option but it's the worst possible option. It shows the players that management doesn't care about them or icing the best possible team. It also let's the players know that management has no intention of paying them a fair price, and that's when every single player that isn't grossly overpaid will walk away from this team at the earliest possibility. 

 

Obviously if they are holding out and asking for an exorbitant amount then that's a different story but if they are just holding out to make sure they get a fair contract then this really isn't a big deal and it will get sorted out just like every other RFA contract JB has done.

 

Just remember a fair deal usually means both sides feel like they lost.

Yes, I'm hoping for a fair contract. I think part of the speculation and maybe some undeserved criticism for Hughes and Petterson is that Jim has been known to open his wallet a little too easily when signing players. Ppl complain that he overpays so if he is trying to low ball our 2 stars, it would be completely out of character for JB to do this. We see how much money is left in the cap that JB intentionally left. 

I have no doubt that JB left that amount intentionally because that is what is more than fair for Hughes and Petterson. 

 

The fact that the deal is still not done points more to Hughes and Petterson than JB. 

 

If it was 8x3 and 8x8, the deal would already be done. 

My guess is the hold up is more due to term. I have a feeling that our young guys want to maximize their pay while hitting UFA as soon as possible which is what JB is not caving to. 

 

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16 minutes ago, 'NucK™ said:

I mean do Huggy (with his bros in NJ), and Petey (considering he seems to be OK with playing anywhere as long as the team is competitive), even want NTC's??

Well it remains to be seen... we don't know, what the hold ups are. Petey has already stated, he want to win, so unless the team start winning, he'll be off. In that case I'm sure he'd prefere a NTC, so he has a say in, where he gets traded to?

Could be JB doesn't want to hand out a NTC for the same reason? Lots of things to consider on contracts like these. 

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25 minutes ago, CanucksJay said:

Yes, I'm hoping for a fair contract. I think part of the speculation and maybe some undeserved criticism for Hughes and Petterson is that Jim has been known to open his wallet a little too easily when signing players. Ppl complain that he overpays so if he is trying to low ball our 2 stars, it would be completely out of character for JB to do this. We see how much money is left in the cap that JB intentionally left. 

I have no doubt that JB left that amount intentionally because that is what is more than fair for Hughes and Petterson. 

 

The fact that the deal is still not done points more to Hughes and Petterson than JB. 

 

If it was 8x3 and 8x8, the deal would already be done. 

My guess is the hold up is more due to term. I have a feeling that our young guys want to maximize their pay while hitting UFA as soon as possible which is what JB is not caving to. 

 

His RFA deals have been excellent. Demko, Boeser, Horvat all paid team friendly deals. UFA signings are always going to be a little higher, they are unrestricted and have the choice of where they want to go. If you look at a lot of Benning’s UFA signings thats what the market was. People can go and b*tch and complain about the Beagle and Roussel deals and say he overpaid, but the timing of those contracts and the term of them were rebuild signings, not signings to try and win a cup. The biggest indication of a rebuild is when your top 2 scorers retire and instead of finding some goal scoring in free agency, JB signs bottom 6 vets with leadership and experience to help shape the upcoming kids.

Edited by knucklehead91
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Just now, knucklehead91 said:

His RFA deals have been excellent. Demko, Boeser, Horvat all paid team friendly deals. UFA signings are always going to be a little higher, they are unrestricted and have the choice of where they want to go. If you look at a lot of Benning’s UFA signings thats what the market was. People can go and b*tch and complain about the Beagle and Roussel deals and say he overpaid, but the timing of those contracts and the term of them were rebuild signings, not signings to try and win a cup. The biggest indication of a rebuild is when your top 2 scorers retire and instead of finding some goal scoring in free agency, JB signs bottom 6 vets with leadership and experience to help mould the upcoming kids.

Step Brothers Yep GIF by reactionseditor

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34 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

Wouldn't kick in for a few years, but would protect against a trade to somewhere like Buffalo.

 

14 minutes ago, spook007 said:

Well it remains to be seen... we don't know, what the hold ups are. Petey has already stated, he want to win, so unless the team start winning, he'll be off. In that case I'm sure he'd prefere a NTC, so he has a say in, where he gets traded to?

Could be JB doesn't want to hand out a NTC for the same reason? Lots of things to consider on contracts like these. 

Yeah I suppose they would both want some kind of modified no trade. But I don't see either of them putting much value into a full league wide NMC is what I meant I guess. 

 

So on that note, I can't see that being the holdup, because I think both sides would be totally fine with like a 10-15 team NMC list for instance

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14 hours ago, knucklehead91 said:

I’d have to disagree about the unproven youth statement. 
Our youth has proved a lot, sure its only been a couple seasons, but they have consistently put up the same numbers and didnt get hit with a sophomore slump. You can see the talent and potential each night, its not like they have flashes here and there and then disappear for extended periods of time. Even when they are struggling, they are making great plays and getting solid chances. However with that being said, I do agree that I do not want to see JB go full Dubass or Chiapet and hand out monstrous deals that handcuff the teams future cap space.

I have to respectfully disagree in the proven part, Last year Pettersson did have a long slump, and Hughes was average to poor on actual defence. Pettersson was not the driving force that he was the seasons prior. Can we blame it on the compressed schedule? I don’t think so… Miller who is older and plays a high speed and high impact game played awesome despite the schedule.

 

both Pettersson and Hughes took a step back in a contract year albeit a difficult year, and I am afraid it is signs of their true ability now that the rest of the teams have scouted their weaknesses. 
 

Maybe my argument is more big picture… and closer to the state of the NHL today. We have young kids under 23 demanding big paydays, the rfa years and contracts are bigger than they ever have been. Look at all the greats who came before them, they had to prove themselves first. 
 

The players are becoming more and more greedy and so are the owners. Players are getting locked into bigger and bigger contracts handcuffing teams more and more. 
 

No one is thinking about the fans anymore. The fans are the ones who pay the salaries. 

 

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1 hour ago, 204CanucksFan said:

Absolutely, but players also want a contract that is fair for them. They recognize that they have a limited window in their lives to make money, they also know that they are only one bad hit or fall from losing their entire careers. 

 

Boo hoo to the players… they are getting paid 6 figures to play a game. And if they get injured and retire young then they join the rest of society and make a living a more normal way. They don’t deserve anything. They have to work for it. Just like everybody else. I know and am friends with a few retired players, and they work just like the rest of us if they weren’t superstars making millions. Even the superstars get work outside of hockey. 

 

Players (and owners) are becoming more and more greedy and we the fans have allowed it. If management sewers this team with bad contracts then hopefully fans stop going to games and force them to start managing properly. 
 

Where is Brian Burke when you need him. He understood this.

 

Canadians are stuck between a rock and a hard place too. Bettman and owners have played the angle of moving teams out of Canada if citizens don’t: approve new arenas (Calgary), go to games Ottawa. And so on. It’s all

manipulation. 

 

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5 minutes ago, ABNucksfan said:

Boo hoo to the players… they are getting paid 6 figures to play a game. And if they get injured and retire young then they join the rest of society and make a living a more normal way. They don’t deserve anything. They have to work for it. Just like everybody else. I know and am friends with a few retired players, and they work just like the rest of us if they weren’t superstars making millions. Even the superstars get work outside of hockey. 

 

Players (and owners) are becoming more and more greedy and we the fans have allowed it. If management sewers this team with bad contracts then hopefully fans stop going to games and force them to start managing properly. 
 

Where is Brian Burke when you need him. He understood this.

 

Canadians are stuck between a rock and a hard place too. Bettman and owners have played the angle of moving teams out of Canada if citizens don’t: approve new arenas (Calgary), go to games Ottawa. And so on. It’s all

manipulation. 

 

What is the point of the rant? Players should be thankful to have jobs and play for what you decide is fair? (Rather than working within the framework of the CBA that both sides fought tooth and nail to settle on?). I don’t get what you’re trying to say here? What exactly would be your solution? 

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8 minutes ago, ABNucksfan said:

Boo hoo to the players… they are getting paid 6 figures to play a game. And if they get injured and retire young then they join the rest of society and make a living a more normal way. They don’t deserve anything. They have to work for it. Just like everybody else. I know and am friends with a few retired players, and they work just like the rest of us if they weren’t superstars making millions. Even the superstars get work outside of hockey. 

 

Players (and owners) are becoming more and more greedy and we the fans have allowed it. If management sewers this team with bad contracts then hopefully fans stop going to games and force them to start managing properly. 

 

So what? Players don't deserve a fair share of the revenue that they are responsible for helping generate? Sure they get hurt and they will have to just go out and get a new job and function in society just like everyone else but over 90% of all NHL players only have a Grade 12 education. So why aren't they entitled to try and get as much of the hundreds of millions of dollars that teams generate as possible. 

 

Most of these players have been training for this since before they could do basic multiplication, literally dedicated their entire lives from an incredibly early age to defy the infinitesimally small odds to become NHL players.

 

It's just like winning the jackpot in the lottery, you want as much money as possible, you're not going to look at the lottery corporation and say "You know what, I just got lucky to win this, so why don't you keep half of this so I can keep working my day job"

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44 minutes ago, qwijibo said:

What is the point of the rant? Players should be thankful to have jobs and play for what you decide is fair? (Rather than working within the framework of the CBA that both sides fought tooth and nail to settle on?). I don’t get what you’re trying to say here? What exactly would be your solution? 

It's not the owners who will be keeping the difference, but their teammates though.  I'm 100% on the side of players earning money, but I think it could be a little more evenly distributed.

Edited by King Heffy
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  • Nuxfanabroad changed the title to I'd Rather JB Play Hardball, Than Cave to These Two(Discussion/Proposals)
  • -SN- changed the title to Elias Pettersson | Quinn Hughes - Contract Discussion Thread
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