Elias Pettersson | Quinn Hughes - Contract Discussion Thread

[wai_lai416]

2 hours ago, PunjabiCanucks said:

Centers near Pettersson range in terms of P/GP are Toews and Backstrom.

 

No offence to Petty, but those 2 are proven winners. Petey still has lots to show before he gets $ near them in terms of 9M plus. Courtier makes near 4.3 M yet has the benefit of playing with high end players too. ROR makes 7.5 M and if he gets that, Petey shouldnt get more than that long term imo.

 

I love these players don't get me wrong, but we have to play hardball sadly

lol are you really using ROR as an example?? when his contract was signed many years ago when the salary cap was only 73mil?? every single one of the guys u are using for comparision is signed for more than 10% of the teams salary cap back when they signed.. no i'm not suggesting EP should sign for 8mil 8.5mil but you are using players contract from different salary cap as comparision is laughable.. you might as well say no one should ever sign for more than the sedins in vancouver ever regardless of what the salary cap is since those were the best players in the franchise history.. 

 

the only comparision to petterson that's realistic is barzal and aho because they were signed recently when the cap is similar.. all ur comparison makes 0 sense comparing players to different salary cap era

[canuktravella]

 people are dreaming that hughes petey sign 5-6 mill a yr they are elite  if peteysigns 3 yrs its 7.5  8 yrs its 9-9.5 

hughes 3 yrs 6.5 per   or 8 yrs at 8.5 

you gotta pay to play 

[Guest]

Quinn should NOT be getting 6 million per year.  
 

Sergachev and MacAvoy are both better players right now. 
 

3x5 for Quinn 

5x7 for Elias. 
 

if one of them wants to hold out for more then phone up Buffalo and ask about Eichel. 

[wallstreetamigo]

1 hour ago, VancouverHabitant said:

Quinn should NOT be getting 6 million per year.  
 

Sergachev and MacAvoy are both better players right now. 
 

3x5 for Quinn 

5x7 for Elias. 
 

if one of them wants to hold out for more then phone up Buffalo and ask about Eichel. 

Eichel isnt worth his cap hit

[grandmaster]

4 hours ago, canuktravella said:

 people are dreaming that hughes petey sign 5-6 mill a yr they are elite  if peteysigns 3 yrs its 7.5  8 yrs its 9-9.5 

hughes 3 yrs 6.5 per   or 8 yrs at 8.5 

you gotta pay to play 

Why would you say they are “elite”? They are both good but haven’t made it to that status. There is potential but not there yet.

 

Quinn has been terrible defensively this year and Petey had a bad injury. Both players were in contract years. Given the flat cap era and they sub standard results this year, it is more than conceivable that they get less than what you are expecting.

 

 

Edited May 21, 2021 by grandmaster

[grandmaster]

2 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Eichel isnt worth his cap hit

Agreed. Buffalo overpaid this one big time

[Bad_BOI_pete]

3 hours ago, VancouverHabitant said:

Quinn should NOT be getting 6 million per year.  
 

Sergachev and MacAvoy are both better players right now. 
 

3x5 for Quinn 

5x7 for Elias. 
 

if one of them wants to hold out for more then phone up Buffalo and ask about Eichel. 

That is simply not true and is results oriented thinking, I'm guessing you are looking at  +/- or shots for/against? those are team stats, we all know who has better teams

 

Quality of competition is a better value to measure how a player compares to another player from another team.

look at their stats I have below. Quinn Hughes has the best numbers

 

https://evolving-hockey.com/stats/skater_qot_qoc/?_inputs_&qoc_type="Rates"&qoc_season="20202021"&qoc_toi="50"&qoc_span="Regular"&qoc_dft_yr="All"&qoc_group="Team%2C Season"&qoc_age1="17"&qoc_range="Seasons"&qoc_age2="50"&qoc_info="No"&qoc_players=["Charlie McAvoy"%2C"Quinn Hughes"%2C"Mikhail Sergachev"]&qoc_str="EV"&qoc_col_select="Expanded"&qoc_team="All"&dir_skater_qot_qoc="Quality of Competition"

 

Player	TOI	TOI/GP	TOI%	RAPM_C±/60	RAPM_xG±/60	GAR±/60	xGAR±/60
Charlie McAvoy	974.33	14.61	28.95	0.23	0.015	0.17	0.2
Mikhail Sergachev	988.97	14.34	28.42	0.31	0.011	0.11	0.15
Quinn Hughes	1029.53	14.42	29	0.71	0.035	0.23	0.22

 

im guessing you don't have these stats, but I do have a membership. i only really use it for QOC, QOT And access to cap friendly contract predictions.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 21, 2021 by Petey_BOI

[Bad_BOI_pete]

43 minutes ago, Petey_BOI said:

That is simply not true and is results oriented thinking, I'm guessing you are looking at  +/- or shots for/against? those are team stats, we all know who has better teams

 

Quality of competition is a better value to measure how a player compares to another player from another team.

look at their stats I have below. Quinn Hughes has the best numbers

 

https://evolving-hockey.com/stats/skater_qot_qoc/?_inputs_&qoc_type="Rates"&qoc_season="20202021"&qoc_toi="50"&qoc_span="Regular"&qoc_dft_yr="All"&qoc_group="Team%2C Season"&qoc_age1="17"&qoc_range="Seasons"&qoc_age2="50"&qoc_info="No"&qoc_players=["Charlie McAvoy"%2C"Quinn Hughes"%2C"Mikhail Sergachev"]&qoc_str="EV"&qoc_col_select="Expanded"&qoc_team="All"&dir_skater_qot_qoc="Quality of Competition"

 

 

 

Player	TOI	TOI/GP	TOI%	RAPM_C±/60	RAPM_xG±/60	GAR±/60	xGAR±/60
Charlie McAvoy	974.33	14.61	28.95	0.23	0.015	0.17	0.2
Mikhail Sergachev	988.97	14.34	28.42	0.31	0.011	0.11	0.15
Quinn Hughes	1029.53	14.42	29	0.71	0.035	0.23	0.22

 

im guessing you don't have these stats, but I do have a membership. i only really use it for QOC, QOT And access to cap friendly contract predictions.

 

 

 

 

 

here is a comparison to each other players for the canucks.

 

Player	GP	TOI	TM #	TOI/GP	TOI%	RAPM_C±/60	RAPM_xG±/60	GAR±/60	xGAR±/60
Olli Juolevi	23	281.83	31	12.92	26.34	-0.87	-0.069	-0.02	-0.01
Alex Edler	52	868.9	32	13.62	27.78	-0.47	-0.043	0.06	0.08
Travis Hamonic	38	649.27	32	13.92	28.33	-0.08	-0.066	0.07	0.04
Tyler Myers	55	961.3	33	12.93	26.39	-0.5	-0.035	0.12	0.06
Nate Schmidt	54	919.9	33	13.68	27.89	-0.21	-0.001	0.13	0.07
Quinn Hughes	56	1029.53	33	13.73	27.89	-1.05	-0.034	0.18	0.06

[Bad_BOI_pete]

Player	GP	TOI	TOI/GP	TOI%	RAPM_C±/60	RAPM_xG±/60	GAR±/60	xGAR±/60
Brayden Point	56	806.78	14.62	29	0.43	0.018	0.14	0.17
Elias Pettersson	26	348.2	14.74	29.68	0.7	0.03	0.2	0.22
Sebastian Aho	56	798.78	14.64	29.16	0.13	0.009	0.16	0.2

 

 

again ep40 has the better numbers than his opponents.

[wai_lai416]

Only in vancouver would their fan call their own player terrible defensively not elite haven't earned anything. Pettersson only averaging a .93 ppg in his 3 season and this was considered his off year when he was on pace to set an nhl record for most post hit in a season lol.. if even 1/4 of those goes in he'd already be a ppg guy this season. Other players on other teams are allowed to be elite status after couple season but in vancouver you aren't a star or elite status yet in this league and are a tier below others with the same production/age apparently. Ya sure let's trade them all for eichel lol EP will easily match or out produce eichel for far less. Good luck building a team around a player that can't carry a team or offense. 

 

Funny Eichel first 3 season avg .85ppg but is considered elite and earned a 10 mil contract and we should offer hughes or EP for him if they hold out. While EP and his .93 ppg in his first 3 season is not good enough for him to be elite. Not to mention EP is far superior defensively lol. 

 

I hope EPs agent bring up eichel for comparison when he signed his contract lol since some of u wants to offer EP for eichel. 

[JM_]

12 hours ago, PunjabiCanucks said:

Me too, but lets say 3 years out.

 

Horvat and Miller can 7 and 6 respectivelly. Boeser will want 7.5

 

Hoglander and Poldkozin can be near 5 million.

 

Thats 38.5 mill in our top 6.

Hughes with 8 and Demko with 5. Thats 51.5 in those 8 players

at that point a hard decision has to be made, but its also how a good team gains new prospects. Circle of life in the NHL.

[JM_]

10 hours ago, FlyLow_ said:

I can't see why Hughes would command the same money as Petey, and if there's one silver lining to this season it brings the AAV down on both of their contracts.

compare the breakouts with Hughes vs anyone else. He's already elite in that regard. Once he gets a bit better defensively, which takes a few years, he's a ppg player. 

[Roger Neilsons Towel]

13 hours ago, EddieVedder said:

Boeser isnt worth 7.  Hughes isnt worth more than 6.  If we overpay one dimensional players like this we have screwed ourselves longterm.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

10 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

lol are you really using ROR as an example?? when his contract was signed many years ago when the salary cap was only 73mil?? 

As well as the dumbazz offer sheet Weisbrod helped instigate for ROR.

[Patrik Laine]

I keep hearing "elite"? Hughes and petey are not elite yet. A breeze knocks petey off the puck and hughes is terrible defensively. 6.0 for hughes. 6.75 for petey on 3 years. 8.5 -9 for these guys that haven't proved their in that category of player yet would be a big mistake. 

[canuktravella]

6 hours ago, grandmaster said:

Why would you say they are “elite”? They are both good but haven’t made it to that status. There is potential but not there yet.

 

Quinn has been terrible defensively this year and Petey had a bad injury. Both players were in contract years. Given the flat cap era and they sub standard results this year, it is more than conceivable that they get less than what you are expecting.

 

 

quinn lead the defense in scoring half the yr  and petey is a .92 ppg player over his career   took sedins til they were 27 to get though numbers   31 other teams would give them watever they wanted we are lucky hughes isnt  able to recieve offsheets this yr 

[PunjabiCanucks]

1. issue w/ hughes is that he needs defensive work. DMAN getting 8 mill are great both ways. I'm not saying Hughes can't do it but time will tell. We need a dman to complement hughes , tanev was that guy and took care of defensive woes hughes had, but without Tanev he was more so exposed.

Pettys injury can be a factor in his salary... if he doesnt have that same shot I mean

[Bertuzzipunch]

These contracts need to be done within the next week

[FlyLow_]

6 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

compare the breakouts with Hughes vs anyone else. He's already elite in that regard. Once he gets a bit better defensively, which takes a few years, he's a ppg player. 

He's also a disaster defensively. Petey is a much better player.

[Chris12345]

8 hours ago, Petey_BOI said:

 

Player	GP	TOI	TOI/GP	TOI%	RAPM_C±/60	RAPM_xG±/60	GAR±/60	xGAR±/60
Brayden Point	56	806.78	14.62	29	0.43	0.018	0.14	0.17
Elias Pettersson	26	348.2	14.74	29.68	0.7	0.03	0.2	0.22
Sebastian Aho	56	798.78	14.64	29.16	0.13	0.009	0.16	0.2

 

 

again ep40 has the better numbers than his opponents.

I guess the question is what is the definition of elite?

 

I would say since Petey or Hughes are the Canucks top center or top dman we are comparing them to the top?

 

So there are 32 #1 centers in the league and 32 #1 dman? Some teams have 2 some have 0.

 

So 32, elite to me is top 10%, or roughly top 3 centers in the league. Could stretch it to top 5?

 

Is Petey 5th or 6th best center in the league? Probably not.

 

Is he good, yea he's real good. So is Quinn. 

 

Do they deserve elite money? No, but next level for sure.

Edited May 21, 2021 by Chris12345