Elias Pettersson | Quinn Hughes - Contract Discussion Thread

[therodigy]

I don't know exactly how LTIR works, but if we're able to get maximum relief of Ferland's $3.5M contract, I would do the following:

 

Pettersson: $8.5M x 8 years 

Hughes: $7M x 6 years

Dickinson: $2.9 x 4 years

Juolevi: 850k x 1 year

 

With Pettersson, I used Point's new 8 year extension and Barzal's 7Mx3 bridge as the comparables. In Point's case, the entire span of the contract takes place over his UFA years, but with Florida's state tax laws, is cheaper overall then signing in Canada, not to mention he's playing on a multiple cup winning team. In Petersson's case, I used $6M as the base for finishing his RFA years, plus added additional annual monies to purchase UFA years. I'm most likely off by at least a million and a year or two... so more realistically looking at $8.5Mx6 or at least $9.5M x 8... will have to come back back this...

 

In Hughe's case, I used Chabot's 8.25Mx8, Heiskenen's 8.45Mx8, and Makar's $9Mx6 as comparables. I went 6 years to go along with the remaining of OEL's contract. That way, when his $7.26M contract expires, you have ample cap to re-sign or replace Hughes. I went with $7M on the notion that his defensive game isn't at the same level as Makar, even though their offensive level is comparable. It buys one of his UFA years so it will also be a bit cheaper. At the end of the day, it is still a gamble. Look for this deal to likely be a bridge to allow Hughes to grow his game and maintain short term cap flexibility.

 

Dickinson is a unique position. His comparables, in my opinion, would be Faksa's $3.25M x 5 and Cizika's last contract of $3.35M x 5. Cizika signed his contract at 25, whereas Faksa signed at 30. Both players, however, have demonstrated the ability to produce at a fringe 2nd line level. Dickinson has not, though is potentially on the verge. I went $2.9M in order to maximize his value over a period of 4 years without passing the $3M mark. If he shows 2nd line offensive potential, this would be great value. If not, his cap hit doesn't hurt the overall cap structure.

 

Juolevi gets a slight raise at 850k, and will act as 1 year show me deal. 3LD should be his to lose with both Rathbone and Hunt competing for that spot. His progress will determine whether he stays on as a top 6 D, or if management will move on from him.

 

...discuss!

 

 

 

[CanucksJay]

1 hour ago, johngould21 said:

Relax, you or I know nothing of how negotiations are going.

 

1 hour ago, johngould21 said:

Exactly

LOL the irony

[86Viking]

Question: is Hughes not a very comparable  player to Torey Krug? Offensively gifted D man with poor D play who doesn't/won't get PK time. It is harsh to maybe think this way, but reality is unless Quinton improves in the D zone I see no need to overpay him like a Makar or Miro type of contract long term with his poor D zone play. Long term deal 7-8yrs 7-7.5m per or shorter term 3-4yr 5.25m per year.

 

Petey I would offer 8yr at 7-8m per yr, would try to sign Ritchie on a cheapish 2yr deal to bring in some grit to the F group, but it is quite full already so unlikely to be a target for us given our cap without QH or EP signed then there is Dickinson as well which might cost more than any of us thought with the contracts gifted out in FA yesterday

[BabychStache]

20 minutes ago, Canuckster86 said:

Question: is Hughes not a very comparable  player to Torey Krug? Offensively gifted D man with poor D play who doesn't/won't get PK time. It is harsh to maybe think this way, but reality is unless Quinton improves in the D zone I see no need to overpay him like a Makar or Miro type of contract long term with his poor D zone play. Long term deal 7-8yrs 7-7.5m per or shorter term 3-4yr 5.25m per year.

 

Petey I would offer 8yr at 7-8m per yr, would try to sign Ritchie on a cheapish 2yr deal to bring in some grit to the F group, but it is quite full already so unlikely to be a target for us given our cap without QH or EP signed then there is Dickinson as well which might cost more than any of us thought with the contracts gifted out in FA yesterday

Hughes 1st year was very comparable to Makar, and IMO better. 

 

The whole team suffered last year. Losing Petey for so long really affected all offensive numbers. Like Makar, Hughes amplifies players on the ice, but without other high skilled players he will suffer. 

 

I am all for locking up both Petey and Hughes for as long as possible. Hughes has the highest potential of any defensemen I've seen the Canucks draft. He has Norris potential. Unlike Krug, Quinn can actually play a defensive game, it's just overshadowed by 2 elements; his incredible offensive talent, and his size. Hockey fans have a penchant for snarling defensemen, which Quinn is not. However, he can control a game with his skating and rarely does he get caught in a hit. He has elements of Neidermayer, Karlsson, and Coffey in his offensive awareness, but he is very underrated in his ability to skate the game away like Lidstrom. 

 

He and Makar are, imo, closely matched and comparable, just on very different teams. 

[wai_lai416]

33 minutes ago, Canuckster86 said:

Question: is Hughes not a very comparable  player to Torey Krug? Offensively gifted D man with poor D play who doesn't/won't get PK time. It is harsh to maybe think this way, but reality is unless Quinton improves in the D zone I see no need to overpay him like a Makar or Miro type of contract long term with his poor D zone play. Long term deal 7-8yrs 7-7.5m per or shorter term 3-4yr 5.25m per year.

 

Petey I would offer 8yr at 7-8m per yr, would try to sign Ritchie on a cheapish 2yr deal to bring in some grit to the F group, but it is quite full already so unlikely to be a target for us given our cap without QH or EP signed then there is Dickinson as well which might cost more than any of us thought with the contracts gifted out in FA yesterday

lol there's no way in hell EP is going to sign a 7-8 years at 7-8 lol.. if that was the case he would have been signed long ago

[86Viking]

16 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

lol there's no way in hell EP is going to sign a 7-8 years at 7-8 lol.. if that was the case he would have been signed long ago

My bad...didn't realize a young kid would so openly pass up on 64m. Guess you want us to be the Laffs 2.0 in the near future then we can never win a cup with over priced contracts like them

[wai_lai416]

12 minutes ago, Canuckster86 said:

My bad...didn't realize a young kid would so openly pass up on 64m. Guess you want us to be the Laffs 2.0 in the near future then we can never win a cup with over priced contracts like them

lol why would he not pass up easily on 64mil when he knows he's easily worth way more than that in a few yearshe can easily sign a 3 year 7-8mil now and then get a 9-10mil in a few years if he continues his growth lol even if he doesn't continue to grow and just become what he is now lol he'l lstill get 7-8mil on his next contract lol so why wouldn't he pass up easily on the 64mil? laffs 2.0? we have players that's currently remotely close to a matthew or mcdavid currently on this team??  every team in the league have an over priced contract or 2 on their team lol last i checked there's still a team winning the cup each year? and why the @#% are u even taking about the laff? all i said is no way EP will sign a 8 year contract at 7-8 mil lol he'll sign a 3 year 7mil maybe lol why would he lock himself to a well below market value contract for max term? did i say offer him 11mil for 8 years? lol give ur head a shake

[wallstreetamigo]

51 minutes ago, BabychStache said:

Hughes 1st year was very comparable to Makar, and IMO better. 

 

The whole team suffered last year. Losing Petey for so long really affected all offensive numbers. Like Makar, Hughes amplifies players on the ice, but without other high skilled players he will suffer. 

 

I am all for locking up both Petey and Hughes for as long as possible. Hughes has the highest potential of any defensemen I've seen the Canucks draft. He has Norris potential. Unlike Krug, Quinn can actually play a defensive game, it's just overshadowed by 2 elements; his incredible offensive talent, and his size. Hockey fans have a penchant for snarling defensemen, which Quinn is not. However, he can control a game with his skating and rarely does he get caught in a hit. He has elements of Neidermayer, Karlsson, and Coffey in his offensive awareness, but he is very underrated in his ability to skate the game away like Lidstrom. 

 

He and Makar are, imo, closely matched and comparable, just on very different teams. 

This is not even close to being accurate.

 

Quinn Hughes is statistically one of the worst 5 on 5 defenders in the NHL at this point. He has a long way to go to be in the Norris conversation or to be considered a comparable to Makar.

 

Krug is better defensively than Hughes. Not great but not a black hole.

 

Hughes has not yet learned how to create offense without sacrificing defensive play. He also has not learned how to control a game defensively using his skating, passing, and shiftiness. The hope is that he does start to do these things and he certainly has the potential to.

 

But to say he is already there is just not accurate. 

[wallstreetamigo]

I would like to see EP and Hughes signed asap. 

 

6.5 mil for 3 years is a fair contract for Hughes considering his defensive shortcomings.

 

7.5 mil for 3 years is a fair contract for EP considering his trajectory.

 

I dont want to see an offer sheet for EP. Bergevin in Mon has really $&!# the bed this offseason. I coukd see him doing something stupid.

[FaninMex]

13 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

I would like to see EP and Hughes signed asap. 

 

6.5 mil for 3 years is a fair contract for Hughes considering his defensive shortcomings.

 

7.5 mil for 3 years is a fair contract for EP considering his trajectory.

 

I dont want to see an offer sheet for EP. Bergevin in Mon has really $&!# the bed this offseason. I coukd see him doing something stupid.

I do not think he will as I think they will not even make the playoffs. Look at the players that they have lost. Getting EP gains them nothing. Other teams maybe but not from Mon. I think they will be chasing a high first.

[Bure_of_94]

2 hours ago, Canuckster86 said:

Question: is Hughes not a very comparable  player to Torey Krug? Offensively gifted D man with poor D play who doesn't/won't get PK time. It is harsh to maybe think this way, but reality is unless Quinton improves in the D zone I see no need to overpay him like a Makar or Miro type of contract long term with his poor D zone play. Long term deal 7-8yrs 7-7.5m per or shorter term 3-4yr 5.25m per year.

 

Petey I would offer 8yr at 7-8m per yr, would try to sign Ritchie on a cheapish 2yr deal to bring in some grit to the F group, but it is quite full already so unlikely to be a target for us given our cap without QH or EP signed then there is Dickinson as well which might cost more than any of us thought with the contracts gifted out in FA yesterday

I think Hughes is better than Heiskanen but not as good as Makar. Unfortunately Heiskanen makes 8.4 million/season and Makar makes 9. 
 

 I think Hughes will shake out at 8-8.5. hopefully over 6-8 years. 
 

 I think Pettersson will be 10-12/year on a 6-8 as well. As he’s a top 50 player in this league and the only guys making less than 8 seem to be guys around 30 that are moving out of their prime. 

Edited July 29, 2021 by Bure_of_94

[Timråfan]

1 hour ago, wai_lai416 said:

 

Edited July 29, 2021 by Timråfan

[johngould21]

3 hours ago, CanucksJay said:

 

LOL the irony

Saying that I might think that a bridge deal is irony?

 

[nux_win]

1 hour ago, wallstreetamigo said:

This is not even close to being accurate.

 

Quinn Hughes is statistically one of the worst 5 on 5 defenders in the NHL at this point. He has a long way to go to be in the Norris conversation or to be considered a comparable to Makar.

 

Krug is better defensively than Hughes. Not great but not a black hole.

 

Hughes has not yet learned how to create offense without sacrificing defensive play. He also has not learned how to control a game defensively using his skating, passing, and shiftiness. The hope is that he does start to do these things and he certainly has the potential to.

 

But to say he is already there is just not accurate. 

Yeah, there were definitely some defensive holes last season.  However, at least by the eye test, Hughes did use his quickness, intelligence, and shiftiness to do an adequate job of defending in his first season.  Let's see if he can return to form there and even improve defensively.  Bringing in OEL and some more defensive defencemen will certainly help.  Ultimately, defence is a team effort and can't be pinned on any one person, even a defenceman.  But your point is appreciated, Hughes still has lots to learn about the defensive side of the game.  The good thing is that I think that Hughes himself would admit that and will work on it.  GCG!

[Locke Lamora]

3 minutes ago, nux_win said:

Yeah, there were definitely some defensive holes last season.  However, at least by the eye test, Hughes did use his quickness, intelligence, and shiftiness to do an adequate job of defending in his first season.  Let's see if he can return to form there and even improve defensively.  Bringing in OEL and some more defensive defencemen will certainly help.  Ultimately, defence is a team effort and can't be pinned on any one person, even a defenceman.  But your point is appreciated, Hughes still has lots to learn about the defensive side of the game.  The good thing is that I think that Hughes himself would admit that and will work on it.  GCG!

I was actually pleasantly surprised how Quinn defended in his first season. No reason he can’t get back to that and even improve upon it.

 

come on Jimbo, get these guys signed and put the cherry on top of your best off-season to date!

[Diamonds]

With the Canucks starting to get tight to the cap I would look at doing bridge deals for both Hughes and EP now.

 

Hughes

3 × 5.8333 AAV

5.0M, 5.25M, 7.5M

This is basically the Boeser contract

 

Pettersson 

3 × 7 AAV

6.5M, 6.5M, 8M

This is similar to Barzal's current contract who I think is a good comparable for EP

 

Both of these offers would slightly lowball them in the early years but has a promise for big pay when the cap is supposed to start going up again. Gives them high qualifying offers for their next contracts.

[Nuxfanabroad]

Keep bringing the twins into the room(alternating intervals) & complimenting the agent's professionalism, until they are trapped in the spin cycle. Keep'em hemmed in for a 5-min shift!

 

Then, get the pens ready. Don't sign 'til we see the googly whites of their eyes!

Edited July 29, 2021 by Nuxfanabroad

[CanucksJay]

49 minutes ago, johngould21 said:

Saying that I might think that a bridge deal is irony?

 

Silly argument... 

You said to "relax as you or I know nothing of how negotiations are going" and then someone thinks it will be a bridge deal and you said "exactly" 

 

That is hypocritical. 

 

You are right. We have no idea how negotiations are going but this is a fan forum where we express opinions and thoughts. But you shut it down because we don't know what is truly going on. But when someone else hypothesizes a bridge deal, you jump on in support and agree with their sentiment that they sense a bridge deal is happening. 

 

If you don't see the irony in that, not sure what to tell you....

 

 

 

 

[Maddogy]

23 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

Keep bringing the twins into the room(alternating intervals) & complimenting the agent's professionalism, until they are trapped in the spin cycle. Keep'em hemmed in for a 5-min shift!

 

Then, get the pens ready. Don't sign 'til we see the googly whites of their eyes!

Is the agent handcuffed to the chair with the picture of his wife and kids in front of him?

[Sell.the.team]

29 minutes ago, Diamonds said:

With the Canucks starting to get tight to the cap I would look at doing bridge deals for both Hughes and EP now.

 

Hughes

3 × 5.8333 AAV

5.0M, 5.25M, 7.5M

This is basically the Boeser contract

 

Pettersson 

3 × 7 AAV

6.5M, 6.5M, 8M

This is similar to Barzal's current contract who I think is a good comparable for EP

 

Both of these offers would slightly lowball them in the early years but has a promise for big pay when the cap is supposed to start going up again. Gives them high qualifying offers for their next contracts.

I think this is on point for what we need to do here.... I think your projections may be a little low but I would be over the moon if we could pull this off.