Elias Pettersson | Quinn Hughes - Contract Discussion Thread

[Rick_theRyper]

2 hours ago, tas said:

training camp

Damn no sending a few guys down now clear up some cap

[tas]

39 minutes ago, MattJVD said:

Call yourself whatever you want. To demogrophers and sociologist, you're a millenial.

and who could possibly care either way? arbitrary categorization is the definition of meaningless. 

[MattJVD]

Just now, tas said:

and who could possibly care either way? arbitrary categorization is the definition of meaningless. 

For sure, live however you want to. These distictions are not meaningful at all on the individual level. 

[Guest]

17 hours ago, Laheys Liquor said:

Who in their right mind would even consider 'giving up' on Quinn..? Like is this seriously a discussion? Haha not directed at you but I'm honestly bewildered. 

I have seen some harsh criticism of him though recently, I watched every game last year and I can't for the life of me understand why people are ragging on Quinn so hard. It was his 2nd year in the show, and he is playing against top lines every other shift. He carries the play and our play style is completely stale when he is out of the lineup. 

We got a D that's on track to be the best Franchise D we've ever had by a wide margin and people are thinkin of giving up?!

C'mon Man! (Joe Biden voice) 

I’m not giving up on Huggy at all but I think that he’s a notch or two below Makar and Heiskanen.  
 

If we take off our homer glasses, where would you rank him compared to guys like Sergachev and MacAvoy? I don’t see any reason that Hughes should be making a lot more then Charlie, so I don’t get why JP Barry is talking about a cap crunch and so on, so forth. 
 

What do you do if his agent JP Barry is holding out for a bigger deal then he’s worth?  
 

I think that pressure should mount on JP Barry to get the deal done instead of the team.  We have more then enough money to give Elias a Barzal contract (7x3) and Quinn a MacAvoy (5x3) contract. 8x5, and 6x5 should be on the table as well. 

[4petesake]

1 hour ago, ilduce39 said:

Pretty obvious.  Barry always sprinkles little buzz words like “cap issues” in his interviews too, you can see he’s trying to add a little pressure by riling up the market.  He’s such a piece of crap.

It’s just so ridiculous when he says Vancouver has cap issues without adding context to it. Here are the teams with more cap space than Vancouver, keeping in mind that some of these teams still have their own RFAs to sign.

 

 

 

 

[Forsy]

Just now, 4petesake said:

It’s just so ridiculous when he says Vancouver has cap issues without adding context to it. Here are the teams with more cap space than Vancouver, keeping in mind that some of these teams still have their own RFAs to sign.

 

 

 

 

Well, we have two franchise players as RFA to sign, so it is quite a tight squeeze. That said, we have about 19.65M to sign Elias, Quinn, Dickinson and Juolevi.
I project 8M, 8M, 2.75M, 900K. If we go cheaper for 3 years for the dynamic duo, that's gonna be an expensive upgrade in 3 years. Locking them up for their 20s long term now at a lower AAV would be nice - assuming they'll accept 8M or lower. If they want higher, we're gonna have to go for a short bridge contract so everyone fits in this year's cap, and then huge payday for them on their next contract.

[RomanP]

5 minutes ago, 4petesake said:

It’s just so ridiculous when he says Vancouver has cap issues without adding context to it. Here are the teams with more cap space than Vancouver, keeping in mind that some of these teams still have their own RFAs to sign.

 

 

 

 

That $14 million cap space is very misleading. It's based on currently signed 13 forwards, including Dowling, DiGiuseppe and Bailey ($750K each) and also currently signed 7 defensemen, including Hunt ($800k). It also doesn't take into account Ferland's $3.5 mil LTIR. Once Petterson, Hughes, Dickinson and Juolevi are all signed. at least 3 out of the 4 above will not be on the roster that counts against the cap. So, sending 2 forwards + Hunt down adds another $2.3 mil to the cap + $3.5 Ferland LTIR - and we have close to $20 mil to sign the 4 remaining RFAs. Which provides a lot more flexibility than $14 mil.

[RomanP]

6 minutes ago, Forsy said:

Well, we have two franchise players as RFA to sign, so it is quite a tight squeeze. That said, we have about 19.65M to sign Elias, Quinn, Dickinson and Juolevi.
I project 8M, 8M, 2.75M, 900K. If we go cheaper for 3 years for the dynamic duo, that's gonna be an expensive upgrade in 3 years. Locking them up for their 20s long term now at a lower AAV would be nice - assuming they'll accept 8M or lower. If they want higher, we're gonna have to go for a short bridge contract so everyone fits in this year's cap, and then huge payday for them on their next contract.

I don't disagree on the long term, but the longer the deal is - the higher AAV they will want. If I was a gambling man (and I am :-)) - I would bet that the salary cap in 3-4 years will be significantly higher than the current one because of the new TV deal and fans going bananas after all the missed games during COVID. I wouldn't be surprised to see a salary cap closer to $90 mil in 3 years. Which should provide us with some extra options to pay more to our star players. It will also give everyone more time to evaluate the true value of these players and see if they consistently improve or start stagnating.

[Solinar]

2 minutes ago, RomanP said:

I don't disagree on the long term, but the longer the deal is - the higher AAV they will want. If I was a gambling man (and I am :-)) - I would bet that the salary cap in 3-4 years will be significantly higher than the current one because of the new TV deal and fans going bananas after all the missed games during COVID. I wouldn't be surprised to see a salary cap closer to $90 mil in 3 years. Which should provide us with some extra options to pay more to our star players. It will also give everyone more time to evaluate the true value of these players and see if they consistently improve or start stagnating.

With escrow factored in, and the flat cap of now, why wouldn't you, as a business person largely selling yourself as the asset, take a short term deal now, at a lower cap hit to minimize escrow, and maximize the return on your dollars for when the cap is higher, and you'd gain a higher percentage of it.  I wouldn't be surprised if both Hughes and Pettersson are dealing at the angle of a short term deal, and the team wants to lock them up for a longer term deal from the vantage point of it being a deal 3 years down the road from now.

[250Integra]

54 minutes ago, VancouverHabitant said:

I’m not giving up on Huggy at all but I think that he’s a notch or two below Makar and Heiskanen.  
 

If we take off our homer glasses, where would you rank him compared to guys like Sergachev and MacAvoy? I don’t see any reason that Hughes should be making a lot more then Charlie, so I don’t get why JP Barry is talking about a cap crunch and so on, so forth. 
 

What do you do if his agent JP Barry is holding out for a bigger deal then he’s worth?  
 

I think that pressure should mount on JP Barry to get the deal done instead of the team.  We have more then enough money to give Elias a Barzal contract (7x3) and Quinn a MacAvoy (5x3) contract. 8x5, and 6x5 should be on the table as well. 

Quinn is already a 60-70 point defencemen in his first two years in the league (in a full 82 game schedule). He was also PPG in the playoffs two seasons ago. The kid is just as good as Makar and Heiskanen. The problem is this team didn't have the defensive depth that those teams have, but he is still putting up ridiculous numbers. He'll easily command 6-7 million at the minimum.

 

We have never had a defencemen like Hughes who can create space and offensive opportunities from the backend. He'll only get better defensively when he is in his prime 3-4 years from now (crazy right???). You guys need to give you head a shake if you don't think he is worth the same as Makar.

[PhillipBlunt]

1 minute ago, 250Integra said:

Quinn is already a 60-70 point defencemen in his first two years in the league (in a full 82 game schedule). He was also PPG in the playoffs two seasons ago. The kid is just as good as Makar and Heiskanen. The problem is this team didn't have the defensive depth that those teams have, but he is still putting up ridiculous numbers. He'll easily command 6-7 million at the minimum.

 

We have never had a defencemen like Hughes who can create space and offensive opportunities from the backend. He'll only get better defensively when he is in his prime 3-4 years from now (crazy right???). You guys need to give you head a shake if you don't think he is worth the same as Makar.

Hughes is a special player and hopefully gets signed this summer. I think some see Makar and Keiskanen as more well rounded defensmen than Hughes, as capable of defending as producing points. Hughes has struggled in the defensive aspects of his game. That's probably why Makar is getting bigger dollars than Hughes will. Mind you, it seems that Jones, who isn't than good defensively has set the bar for how young d-men are getting paid. 

 

I do see under Shaw, a significant change and improvement in how the defense will perform, which will lead to Hughes not being so encumbered by responsibilities. Ekman-Larsson will definitely lighten his burden, and whomever Quinn is paired with, be it Hamonic or Poolman, will give him more space to create offence. 

[4petesake]

27 minutes ago, Forsy said:

Well, we have two franchise players as RFA to sign, so it is quite a tight squeeze. That said, we have about 19.65M to sign Elias, Quinn, Dickinson and Juolevi.
I project 8M, 8M, 2.75M, 900K. If we go cheaper for 3 years for the dynamic duo, that's gonna be an expensive upgrade in 3 years. Locking them up for their 20s long term now at a lower AAV would be nice - assuming they'll accept 8M or lower. If they want higher, we're gonna have to go for a short bridge contract so everyone fits in this year's cap, and then huge payday for them on their next contract.

I do agree with you that things are tight, but they are very doable.  It’s really more about JP Barry’s comment about Vancouver having a “cap problem” when in reality we are far better off than the vast majority of teams. That’s another reason why I continue to try to remind people that the boogeyman of an offer sheet to Petey is way, way overblown. 
 

If terms are right and the contracts are structured with the salaries a little lower in the first year or two I would prefer to lock them both up for at least 5 or  better yet 7-8 years. The only problem with a short bridge deal is that (here I have my optimist’s goggles on) they should both get significantly better with the addition of Shaw and could be much more expensive to re-sign their next contracts.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, 250Integra said:

Quinn is already a 60-70 point defencemen in his first two years in the league (in a full 82 game schedule). He was also PPG in the playoffs two seasons ago. The kid is just as good as Makar and Heiskanen. The problem is this team didn't have the defensive depth that those teams have, but he is still putting up ridiculous numbers. He'll easily command 6-7 million at the minimum.

 

We have never had a defencemen like Hughes who can create space and offensive opportunities from the backend. He'll only get better defensively when he is in his prime 3-4 years from now (crazy right???). You guys need to give you head a shake if you don't think he is worth the same as Makar.

I’m sorry but I would trade Hughes in an instant for Makar. 
 

You’re being very subjective, Makar and Heiskanen are both better players then Hughes. 
 

I know that Hughes will get better, but last season was a very tough one for him defensively as he was targeted by the opposition.  It was unfair for him to ask so much of a 20 year old defenseman. 

[spook007]

44 minutes ago, 4petesake said:

I do agree with you that things are tight, but they are very doable.  It’s really more about JP Barry’s comment about Vancouver having a “cap problem” when in reality we are far better off than the vast majority of teams. That’s another reason why I continue to try to remind people that the boogeyman of an offer sheet to Petey is way, way overblown. 
 

If terms are right and the contracts are structured with the salaries a little lower in the first year or two I would prefer to lock them both up for at least 5 or  better yet 7-8 years. The only problem with a short bridge deal is that (here I have my optimist’s goggles on) they should both get significantly better with the addition of Shaw and could be much more expensive to re-sign their next contracts.

Think you are spot on. Without a shadow of doubt there is a lots of ifs and buts going on.

As much as I detest agents, they are doing their best to give their players the best deal possible... Any which way possible. 

 

Barry will point to the exact thing you just mentioned, that QH being young will improve, and as such should be paid for, what he will be (might be). Benning will say that is not guaranteed and that he will prefer a show me contract, for QH to show he will be as good, as Barry says, he will be.

Then likely one of 3 things will happen:

1. QH banks on himself, signs a bridge deal and hopes he's right, so he can get a monster deal afterwards.

2. Benning talks him into signing a long term contract at less money, but guaranteed (this is likely, what the discussion is all about - term length and $)

3. QH says sod it to Benning and that will be the end of the love affair.

 

My money is on number 2, but it all depends of them coming to a number both camps can accept... Won't happen over night. 

[Isam]

3 hours ago, VancouverHabitant said:

I’m not giving up on Huggy at all but I think that he’s a notch or two below Makar and Heiskanen.  
 

If we take off our homer glasses, where would you rank him compared to guys like Sergachev and MacAvoy? I don’t see any reason that Hughes should be making a lot more then Charlie, so I don’t get why JP Barry is talking about a cap crunch and so on, so forth. 
 

What do you do if his agent JP Barry is holding out for a bigger deal then he’s worth?  
 

I think that pressure should mount on JP Barry to get the deal done instead of the team.  We have more then enough money to give Elias a Barzal contract (7x3) and Quinn a MacAvoy (5x3) contract. 8x5, and 6x5 should be on the table as well. 

Except that not all contracts are created equal. We have to factor in things such as taxes and escrow etc and when such dealvwas signed so inflation has to be key too

[Nucker 67]

The longer the Petey contract is delayed, the more concern that he'll be offer sheeted. He doesn't seem like a "home discount" kind of guy, feeling obligated to re-sign in VAN. The kid's a star. Benning needs to re-sign him quick, because the noise (rumours) out there is just going to get louder.  

 

i try to think: if I were a 21 year old Quinn Hughes playing in western Canada, while my two brothers are playing in New Jersey, I'd be seriously considering how I could join them. I hope Hughes wants to play here for a long time, but the idea of playing with his brothers has got to be tempting.

 

Benning needs to do what it takes to re-sign them both.

 

   

[4petesake]

14 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

The longer the Petey contract is delayed, the more concern that he'll be offer sheeted. He doesn't seem like a "home discount" kind of guy, feeling obligated to re-sign in VAN. The kid's a star. Benning needs to re-sign him quick, because the noise (rumours) out there is just going to get louder.  

 

i try to think: if I were a 21 year old Quinn Hughes playing in western Canada, while my two brothers are playing in New Jersey, I'd be seriously considering how I could join them. I hope Hughes wants to play here for a long time, but the idea of playing with his brothers has got to be tempting.

 

Benning needs to do what it takes to re-sign them both.

 

   

I’m curious,  which team do you think would offer sheet him?

[Slegr]

54 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

i try to think: if I were a 21 year old Quinn Hughes playing in western Canada, while my two brothers are playing in New Jersey, I'd be seriously considering how I could join them. I hope Hughes wants to play here for a long time, but the idea of playing with his brothers has got to be tempting.

   

I suppose that might be true - but how many of us would really want to work with our siblings every day? Count me out of that daydream.

Edited August 5, 2021 by Slegr

[4petesake]

1 minute ago, Slegr said:

I suppose that might be true - but how many of us would really want to work with our siblings every day? Count me out of that daydream.

Thanks for saying this. I love my brothers but have zero desire to spend all my time every day with them. No doubt they feel the same about me. 

[Junkyard Dog]

6 minutes ago, Slegr said:

I suppose that might be true - but how many of us would really want to work with our siblings every day? Count me out of that daydream.

I think pro sports it's probably a different feel. I mean we should know we had the Sedins for years. The Hughes bros are pretty close too. They practice with each other every off-season.

 

That said hockey is a business and we have Hughes' rights for a while.

 

If NJD wanted to make an offer for Quinn they have a whole lot of players/prospects I like and they'd have to overpay which they could do in theory.