Elias Pettersson | Quinn Hughes - Contract Discussion Thread

[tas]

46 minutes ago, Bertuzzipunch said:

Hey, they got travis Greens contract done in a day so lets go, lets getter dun!

let's just let the adults do their work. 

[Bertuzzipunch]

4 minutes ago, tas said:

let's just let the adults do their work. 

You a real stick in the mud arent ya

[WHL rocks]

11 hours ago, qwijibo said:

The new CBA signed last year changed how qualifying offers are calculated.  It’s now the lesser of salary in the final year of the contract OR 120% of the AAV. So backloading an RFA’s contract doesn’t really benefit them anymore 

I was unaware of this. 

 

This is a great adjustment to the CBA. Boeser's QO would have been 7.5 mill. Timo Meier would have had to be qualified at 10 mill after 4 seasons at 6 mill aav. 

 

[Junkyard Dog]

24 minutes ago, WHL rocks said:

I was unaware of this. 

 

This is a great adjustment to the CBA. Boeser's QO would have been 7.5 mill. Timo Meier would have had to be qualified at 10 mill after 4 seasons at 6 mill aav. 

 

Boeser still will have a 7.5M cap hit on his qualifying offer since his contract was signed prior to this. 
 

He will be grandfathered in.  Same with Meier. 

Edited May 26, 2021 by Junkyard Dog

[wai_lai416]

On 5/25/2021 at 4:47 AM, shiznak said:

Is that due to EP in the lineup or because the entire team last season were just better offensively than this season? Last season, the Canucks were in the top 10 in scoring (3.2 GF) with Miller, Virtanen, and Pearson all having career years. This year, in the 27 games with Pettersson in the lineup, they dropped to 2.8, with the same core players. 
 

FWIW, the Canucks were actually averaging 2.5 goals (from March 3 to May 19) without EP, dropping to 26th from 18th.

ok i give up u only look at stats and not the actual game. you are basically saying any top 6 forward would have easily replaced him and it won't be much of a downgrade coz it's only .5 or whatever u are saying goals difference. oh we actually avg 2.5 goals from march 3 to may 19th.. but u failed to look at how many of those goals came after we were eliminated? we avg 3.1+ goals since may 6th and avg around 2.3 prior to that.. we looked horrible offensively without EP out there and other than the 2 toronto game out of the covid pause we looked horrible again until we are playing teams with nothing to play for.

[khay]

On 5/25/2021 at 6:03 PM, tas said:

kinda demonstrates the scope of insight from a large portion of cdc.

 

wild vacillation, short memories, and can't see 3 feet in front of them. 

3 feet? You are being generous. 
 

Regarding EP, I think he will get something in between 6 to 8. 
 

My guess is near Barzal money, 6.5-7 for 3 years. 
 

As for QH, i think he is at most 6 mill player right now. But since EP and QH have the same agent, maybe he will also get around 6.5 and they get match contracts. 

[shiznak]

17 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

ok i give up u only look at stats and not the actual game. you are basically saying any top 6 forward would have easily replaced him and it won't be much of a downgrade coz it's only .5 or whatever u are saying goals difference. oh we actually avg 2.5 goals from march 3 to may 19th.. but u failed to look at how many of those goals came after we were eliminated? we avg 3.1+ goals since may 6th and avg around 2.3 prior to that.. we looked horrible offensively without EP out there and other than the 2 toronto game out of the covid pause we looked horrible again until we are playing teams with nothing to play for.

Since EP went down (March 3) to the day we got eliminated (May 10), only 10 out of the 24 games, the team failed to score more than 2 goals. Six; one goal games, two; two goal games (both wins), and 2 shutouts.

 

The team also surprisingly has a winning record without EP, for what it’s worth.

[tas]

20 minutes ago, shiznak said:

Since EP went down (March 3) to the day we got eliminated (May 10), only 10 out of the 24 games, the team failed to score more than 2 goals. Six; one goal games, two; two goal games (both wins), and 2 shutouts.

 

The team also surprisingly has a winning record without EP, for what it’s worth.

the team as a whole was also playing piss poorly for the vast majority of the time prior to pettersson's injury. 

[Tom Sestito]

55 minutes ago, tas said:

the team as a whole was also playing piss poorly for the vast majority of the time prior to pettersson's injury. 

the only difference in the stretches over the course of the season were puck luck because our shot rates were the exact same at different times lol

 

either way i have ep pencilled in around 7 and hughes in the high 5s

[tas]

42 minutes ago, Tom Sestito said:

the only difference in the stretches over the course of the season were puck luck because our shot rates were the exact same at different times lol

 

either way i have ep pencilled in around 7 and hughes in the high 5s

sarcasm?

[Tom Sestito]

2 minutes ago, tas said:

sarcasm?

No. It doesn’t really matter what stretch of games you look at - our shot rates were similar. What varied was the pucks going in. We had bad goaltending and then Bubble demko reappeared when we had that above .500 streak.

 

[tas]

4 minutes ago, Tom Sestito said:

No. It doesn’t really matter what stretch of games you look at - our shot rates were similar. What varied was the pucks going in. We had bad goaltending and then Bubble demko reappeared when we had that above .500 streak.

 

I'm sorry, did you watch the friggin' games? like with your eyes?

 

saying the team played equivalently in the early part and later part of the year is the most absurd thing I've ever read, regardless of what your meaningless "underlying numbers" tell you.

 

the terrible passes. the terrible reads. the terrible misplays. the individual output from each player, frankly. you could clearly SEE the difference. it was plain as day. 

[Tom Sestito]

24 minutes ago, tas said:

I'm sorry, did you watch the friggin' games? like with your eyes?

 

saying the team played equivalently in the early part and later part of the year is the most absurd thing I've ever read, regardless of what your meaningless "underlying numbers" tell you.

 

the terrible passes. the terrible reads. the terrible misplays. the individual output from each player, frankly. you could clearly SEE the difference. it was plain as day. 

I’m not going to engage in the who can flame the other person more with different adjectives game - I’m just providing you with a different POV.

 

 

We also won a lot of games past regulation. If you went by just regulation, there’s less variance in each stretch during the season. 

 

Edited May 28, 2021 by Tom Sestito

[tas]

34 minutes ago, Tom Sestito said:

I’m not going to engage in the who can flame the other person more with different adjectives game - I’m just providing you with a different POV.

 

 

We also won a lot of games past regulation. If you went by just regulation, there’s less variance in each stretch during the season. 

 

and yet since I watched the games, I realize that they didn't resemble one another despite their statistical similarities. 

 

those stats don't begin to tell the "why" of the story. 

[Tom Sestito]

1 hour ago, tas said:

and yet since I watched the games, I realize that they didn't resemble one another despite their statistical similarities. 

 

those stats don't begin to tell the "why" of the story. 

Just because I’m acknowledging that a goalie put up an absurd, unsustainable 95 save percentage doesn’t mean that I don’t watch the games.

 

To me, it means we have a disagreement. I saw the team constantly get outshot and our goalie stood on his head. 

[wai_lai416]

10 hours ago, shiznak said:

Since EP went down (March 3) to the day we got eliminated (May 10), only 10 out of the 24 games, the team failed to score more than 2 goals. Six; one goal games, two; two goal games (both wins), and 2 shutouts.

 

The team also surprisingly has a winning record without EP, for what it’s worth.

the team actually failed to score more than 2 goals 15 times out of the 24 games in regulation. OT is all about luck getting a lucky bounce and a odd man rush and shootout is more of a skill contest.. i wouldn't really count OT and SO goals as oh our offense is fine without EP or whomever. how often do they play the game 3v3?? if u can score 3v3 what does it say about ur offense? absolutely nothing.. scoring 2 goals or less a game in regulation you are more than likely to lose 90% of the time. you require your goalie to give up 1 goal or less which is more than likely not happening when the league avgs scores 3 goals per game. or you are just hoping u score 2 goals and ur goalie only gives up 2 and try to play for the loser point in OT/SO?

 

we are 14-15-1 in the final 30 games without EP this season so where's this winning record you are speaking of? 

[Sedinyoureyesontheprize]

10 hours ago, Tom Sestito said:

No. It doesn’t really matter what stretch of games you look at - our shot rates were similar. What varied was the pucks going in. We had bad goaltending and then Bubble demko reappeared when we had that above .500 streak.

 

Good points. If what you say here is true about the shot totals (trusting that it is), it seems that this is a stats we should keep an eye on during next season.
We desperately need to determine whether the team has actually improved from previous years, stayed the same or regressed.

 

The other thing is that the current shot totals are not positively associated with a winning % which is what ultimately matters.
Our team struggles at times to generate high danger scoring chances so we also need to consider that aspect of those shot totals, were the shots quality or more quantity.
 

So far what I’ve seen from the past two years rosters and coaches is that they keep falling into long stretches of games where they run the same patterns with the inability to adjust in game or for long stretches of games which is the most frustrating part as a fan. 

 

 

Edited May 28, 2021 by Setyoureyesontheprize

[ShawnAntoski]

On 5/28/2021 at 5:41 AM, Setyoureyesontheprize said:

Good points. If what you say here is true about the shot totals (trusting that it is), it seems that this is a stats we should keep an eye on during next season.
We desperately need to determine whether the team has actually improved from previous years, stayed the same or regressed.

 

The other thing is that the current shot totals are not positively associated with a winning % which is what ultimately matters.
Our team struggles at times to generate high danger scoring chances so we also need to consider that aspect of those shot totals, were the shots quality or more quantity.
 

So far what I’ve seen from the past two years rosters and coaches is that they keep falling into long stretches of games where they run the same patterns with the inability to adjust in game or for long stretches of games which is the most frustrating part as a fan. 

 

 

Yeah, the end results; and as much as someone tries to dress it up or explain it through some stats - it is not bias and the eye test on the ice indicates the struggles the team has ie: exiting there zone when the other team increases there tempo/pressure or depending on stellar goaltending to win games and etc.   Imo, stats are a great tool but it depends on the person interpreting it and what variables are being used for the stat - a good tool but only one in tool box a good GM/coaching staff will have.  
 

Canucks record under Green; also of the bottom 5 - only the Canucks have not chosen in the top 4 or Canucks & Yotes in the bottom 10

 

Edited May 29, 2021 by ShawnAntoski

[tas]

6 minutes ago, ShawnAntoski said:

Yeah, the end results; and as much as someone tries to dress it up or explain it through some stats - it is not bias and the eye test on the ice indicates the struggles the team has ie: exiting there zone when the other team increases there tempo/pressure or depending on stellar goaltending to win games and etc.   Imo, stats are a great tool but it depends on the person interpreting it and what variables are being used for the stat - a good tool but only one in tool box a good GM/coaching staff will have.  
 

Canucks record under Green; also of the bottom 5 - only the Canucks have not chosen in the top 4 during JBs’ tenure.

 

you keep posting this image over and over in every thread, and I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. all that shows is that green was hired to be the coach of a rebuilding team, which, uh, we all kind of already knew. 

[ShawnAntoski]

3 minutes ago, tas said:

you keep posting this image over and over in every thread, and I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. all that shows is that green was hired to be the coach of a rebuilding team, which, uh, we all kind of already knew. 

You keeping track of my post ?  I taught a staff is hired to maximize a roster despite the talent level with the purpose of winnning ?????

 

Edited May 28, 2021 by ShawnAntoski