[proposal] Yes, it’s Canucks-Devils part infinity, and yes it involves Quinn Hughes part infinity

[Patel Bure]

[proposal] Yes, it’s Canucks-Devils part infinity, and yes it involves Quinn Hughes part infinity 

 

To Devils:  Hughes + Hamonic (assuming that Hamonic’s absence right now is related to anti-vaccination protocols).

 

To Canucks:  Ryan Graves + Damon Severson + 1st round pick

 

:::::Ryan Reynolds gif..........but why?::::::

 

1) New Jersey fulfills their fantasy of getting all three Hughes brothers while the Canucks address a HUGE hole on their right side D (Severson) while also bringing in a guy that could shut down and take on some tough defensive assignments (Graves).  To what extent Graves would be able to take on tough defensive assignments I am not sure, but he’d be better than all of our current options.

 

2) If Hamonic isn’t slated to play for the Canucks this season, then that right side D will come with *way* too much risk.  Schenn, a 7th dman, will be forced to be a 3rd pairing guy, Poolman, a 3rd pairing guy, will be forced to play on the 1st or 2nd pairing, while Myers, a #4, might also be forced to play on a top pairing with another offensive minded defenseman......which could ultimately mean a defensively suspect pairing.  And this of course, is assuming that our D is 100% healthy!    For me personally, a Hamonic-less D would create too much risk on the back-end.

 

3) Although I would like Quinn to be here for the long term, there is a part of me that wonders if he secretly wants to re-unite with his brothers in New Jersey.  We all saw the draft day reaction of the Hughes family when Luke got selected to NJ, and we are already starting to see some indirect guerrilla warfare tactics from New Jersey with regards to legalized indirect tampering (ie Jack Hughes commenting on the negotiations occurring between Quinn and the Canucks with Jack stating that Quinn simply wants a deal that’s fair and respectful).   
 

Im starting to wonder if Quinn not being with the Devils will slowly turn into the “elephant in the room.”

 

4) Rathbone is much better than Juolevi.  Heading into pre-season, my line of thinking was that IF Rathbone was only slightly better than Juolevi (ie 5-7%), then you could still justifiably keep OJ as the 3rd pairing guy while sending Rathbone to Abbotsford for asset management purposes (Oj getting NHL ice time + Bone logging huge minute in Abby while getting frequent NHL call ups with inevitable injuries).  Unfortunately however, Rathbone is MUCH better than Juolevi right now and so he needs to stick.  IF the Canucks were to move someone like Hughes, they would need another strong PMD in the line-up besides OEL and so this where Rathbone would come into play.

 

5) Cap wise:

Devils receive:  3 million + Quinn Hughes long term deal

Canucks receive: 3.17 (rounded up) + 4.17 (rounded up) = 7.34 

 

The Devils currently have about 12 million in cap space and so signing Hughes long term wouldn’t be a problem for them.  
 

The way I would arrange the lines:

 

Miller-Pettersson-Garland

Hoglander-Horvat-Boeser

Pearson-Dickinson-Podkolzin

Gadjovich-Sutter-Motte

 

Highmore

 

Graves-Severson 

OEL-Poolman

Rathbone-Myers

Schenn

 

Demko

Halak

 

 

Edited September 28, 2021 by Patel Bure

[Playoff Beered]

[Tyndall2]

I like your thinking.  

[King Heffy]

I like it a lot.

[mll]

Winning is far better marketing wise.  The shine would wear off quick if they can't climb in the standings.  This trade would make NJD worse - their D-corps would be unbalanced and lack physicality.  

 

Graves is paired with Hamilton.  Offensive D Ty Smith is paired with Severson.  They would be left with offensive Ds and no defensive Ds to complement them and remove the physicality from their D-corps. 

 

They just added Hamilton at 9M who looks to already have chemistry with Hughes - they are doing no look passes during the scrimmages.  They'll soon have to pay Jack.

 

Quinn also has the puck in the o-zone more than many forwards - he leads the Ds with Josi.  Teams that have skilled players who like to have the puck might not really see the necessity to have a D that's going to take the puck away from their creative forwards.  When he has the puck, the forwards have it less.  Instead of letting the forwards make the play, it's the D making the play and somebody has to defend.  
 

[Patel Bure]

31 minutes ago, Playoff Beered said:

No, but I am colorblind and so I *almost* wasn’t able to read your message.  :-p

[Coconuts]

That's it, I'm imposing a limit. 

 

 

[Patel Bure]

1 minute ago, mll said:

Winning is far better marketing wise.  The shine would wear off quick if they can't climb in the standings.  This trade would make NJD worse - their D-corps would be unbalanced and lack physicality.  

 

Graves is paired with Hamilton.  Offensive D Ty Smith is paired with Severson.  They would be left with offensive Ds and no defensive Ds to complement them and remove the physicality from their D-corps. 

 

They just added Hamilton at 9M who looks to already have chemistry with Hughes - they are doing no look passes during the scrimmages.  They'll soon have to pay Jack.

 

Quinn also has the puck in the o-zone more than many forwards - he leads the Ds with Josi.  Teams that have skilled players who like to have the puck might not really see the necessity to have a D that's going to take the puck away from their creative forwards.  When he has the puck, the forwards have it less.  Instead of letting the forwards make the play, it's the D making the play and somebody has to defend.  
 

Couldn’t they just go

 

Q. Hughes-Hamilton

Smith-Hamonic

 

Quinn would bring a more offensive element to a Hamilton pairing than Graves, while Hamilton would still be good enough defensively from preventing such a pairing from being a defensive liability (by contrast, Graves-Hamilton seems to me like it would lack a bit of back-end mobility).

 

You say that Jack Hughes and Dougie Hamilton are already developing chemistry (unless you’re talking about Luke?).   Now imagine Quinn Hughes to that fold.  The chemistry between Quinn, Jack, and Dougie.

 

If the Devils felt that they lacked an offense-defensive imbalance, they could move Ty Smith for a more defensive-oriented defenseman could they not?  PK Subban will also be coming off the books at the end of the season and so he could also be replaced with a more defensive minded defenseman next season.

 

[mll]

14 minutes ago, Patel Bure said:

Couldn’t they just go

 

Q. Hughes-Hamilton

Smith-Hamonic

 

Quinn would bring a more offensive element to a Hamilton pairing than Graves, while Hamilton would still be good enough defensively from preventing such a pairing from being a defensive liability (by contrast, Graves-Hamilton seems to me like it would lack a bit of back-end mobility).

 

You say that Jack Hughes and Dougie Hamilton are already developing chemistry (unless you’re talking about Luke?).   Now imagine Quinn Hughes to that fold.  The chemistry between Quinn, Jack, and Dougie.

 

If the Devils felt that they lacked an offense-defensive imbalance, they could move Ty Smith for a more defensive-oriented defenseman could they not?  PK Subban will also be coming off the books at the end of the season and so he could also be replaced with a more defensive minded defenseman next season.

 

In Carolina Hamilton played with one of the best defensive Ds in the game in Slavin.  Don't see how it benefits Hamilton or Jack to have Quinn take the puck away from them. 

 

I don't see why they would make that trade when their D-corps is now well balanced.

 

 

 

[Playoff Beered]

2 hours ago, Patel Bure said:

No, but I am colorblind and so I *almost* wasn’t able to read your message.  :-p

It's black and white though. Serious question, does colorblindness affect your ability to make out diametrically opposed patterns?

[Provost]

I counter with/

 

Hughes+Hamonic+Pearson 

 

for

Zacha, Graves, Subban (30-50% retained) and a 1st

 

Hoglander-Miller-Boeser

Zacha-Horvat-Garland

Podkolzin-Dickenson-Chiasson

Motte-Sutter-XX

 

OEL-Subban

Graves-Myers

Rathbone-Poolman 

 

Petterson can get moved next for another boatload.

 

Of course this is all contingent on them not wanting to sign for reasonable money.

Edited September 29, 2021 by Provost

[VancouverHabitant]

2 hours ago, mll said:

Winning is far better marketing wise.  The shine would wear off quick if they can't climb in the standings.  This trade would make NJD worse - their D-corps would be unbalanced and lack physicality.  

 

Graves is paired with Hamilton.  Offensive D Ty Smith is paired with Severson.  They would be left with offensive Ds and no defensive Ds to complement them and remove the physicality from their D-corps. 

 

They just added Hamilton at 9M who looks to already have chemistry with Hughes - they are doing no look passes during the scrimmages.  They'll soon have to pay Jack.

 

Quinn also has the puck in the o-zone more than many forwards - he leads the Ds with Josi.  Teams that have skilled players who like to have the puck might not really see the necessity to have a D that's going to take the puck away from their creative forwards.  When he has the puck, the forwards have it less.  Instead of letting the forwards make the play, it's the D making the play and somebody has to defend.  
 

They would instantly become one of the most marketable teams with the three brothers.  I don't think that losing Severson would hurt them that much, and they would get Hamonic back to pair with Ty Smith or keep him with Hughes.  

 

Let Devils keep Graves and their 1st round pick, and ask for Pavel Zacha.  

 

Zacha + Severson for Quinn and Hamonic.  I think that would be a win for both teams. 

[Phil_314]

OP I really like the way that defense looks after that trade, plus getting a 1st is gravy.
OEL - Poolman apparently looked great already, so adding another pair in Graves - Severson that can take the tough minutes would make for a very stable D-core.  Rathbone probably has enough dark horse potential to become a great PMD in his own right, so he can probably make up 60% of what the team loses in Quinn.  Paired with a rebound season from OEL and effective transition play throughout the defenders to the forward group, and we'd have an effective two-way unit that could defend and do damage offensively.

Edited September 29, 2021 by Phil_314

[Patel Bure]

Bit busy guys but I’ll say one thing with regards to the last few posts/trade suggestions:

 

I’m not entirely sure if I feel comfortable with Jack Rathbone being given a 2nd pairing spot..........yet.  Rathbone has a lot of talent and potential but I think moving Hughes (without getting an adequate replacement on that left side), could actually be counter productive to Rathbone’s development.....especially if someone like OEL were to go down which would then make Rathbone our defacto top pairing LD.

 

@VancouverHabitant

Edited September 29, 2021 by Patel Bure

[Patel Bure]

2 hours ago, Provost said:

I counter with/

 

Hughes+Hamonic+Pearson 

 

for

Zacha, Graves, Subban (30-50% retained) and a 1st

 

Hoglander-Miller-Boeser

Zacha-Horvat-Garland

Podkolzin-Dickenson-Chiasson

Motte-Sutter-XX

 

OEL-Subban

Graves-Myers

Rathbone-Poolman 

 

Petterson can get moved next for another boatload.

 

Of course this is all contingent on them not wanting to sign for reasonable money.

I don’t like that OEL-Subban pairing.  Both are offensive minded D men that are susceptible to less than stellar defensive play.  Subban, at this point in his career, is no longer a top pairing guy.  He’s probably a #4 at best these days.  

[Patel Bure]

2 hours ago, Playoff Beered said:

It's black and white though. Serious question, does colorblindness affect your ability to make out diametrically opposed patterns?

I was able to detect the diametrically opposed patterns eventually and so I guess the answer to your question might be no?  I didn’t make out the wording right away though.

[J.I.A.H.N]

7 hours ago, Patel Bure said:

[proposal] Yes, it’s Canucks-Devils part infinity, and yes it involves Quinn Hughes part infinity 

 

To Devils:  Hughes + Hamonic (assuming that Hamonic’s absence right now is related to anti-vaccination protocols).

 

To Canucks:  Ryan Graves + Damon Severson + 1st round pick

 

The way I would arrange the lines:

 

Miller-Pettersson-Garland

Hoglander-Horvat-Boeser

Pearson-Dickinson-Podkolzin

Gadjovich-Sutter-Motte

 

Highmore

 

Graves-Severson 

OEL-Poolman

Rathbone-Myers

Schenn

 

Demko

Halak

 

 

Well, Patel

 

I believe this may be the best proposal you have ever made. IMO, this puts in the now, and gives us 3 -1sts in the next 2 years, to add for the future. Take a bow!

 

I have always looked far into the future (like 6 to 8 years...don't get excited Alf), but really, our core is developing into a now to 5 years from now, so I like this.

 

I would take it!

[GB5]

8 hours ago, Patel Bure said:

To Devils:  Hughes + Hamonic (assuming that Hamonic’s absence right now is related to anti-vaccination protocols).

 

To Canucks:  Ryan Graves + Damon Severson + 1st round pick

 

It is doable for sure. I think that with OEL and the emergence of the Bone of Wrath the Canucks can explore options on the back end to become more defensively sound and this looks like an option.

 

Only problem is when Jersey realizes that they will have to pay half of their cap to the three Hughes boys in about 3-4 years to keep them all together leaving 45 million to split between their other 18 team mates.

[mll]

 

5 hours ago, VancouverHabitant said:

They would instantly become one of the most marketable teams with the three brothers.  I don't think that losing Severson would hurt them that much, and they would get Hamonic back to pair with Ty Smith or keep him with Hughes.  

 

Let Devils keep Graves and their 1st round pick, and ask for Pavel Zacha.  

 

Zacha + Severson for Quinn and Hamonic.  I think that would be a win for both teams. 

Hamonic is considering opting out and looks to be high maintenance.  Has asked for a trade out west, put limits on where he wants to play etc.  Don't see why NJD would want to encumber themselves with the hassle and uncertainty.  

 

Also look at how Hughes/Pettersson are holding out together for leverage.  The Hughes brothers probably all have the same agent - contract negotiations could be an even worse nightmare than it is right now for Vancouver. 

Severson and Ty Smith were pretty much their top pairing last season with Severson their most played D. 

 

Zacha is finally showing his worth and brings versatility as he can play all positions and in all situations.  Don't see why they would want to trade him.  He fits their group and has been playing well under Ruff.  NJD are looking to build a team that can win a Cup.  They talk of how there are teams that have a lot of good players but that those teams don't always do well because they don't have the right culture and mix.  

 

Lamoriello is no longer with NJD but he was strongly against the idea that players are larger than the team.  Not convinced that teams would want to promote 3 brothers as that would put them ahead of the brand and give them just so much leverage.  Winning is also a far better path to retain fans than some marketing mirage.

 

 

8 hours ago, Patel Bure said:

Couldn’t they just go

 

Q. Hughes-Hamilton

Smith-Hamonic

 

Quinn would bring a more offensive element to a Hamilton pairing than Graves, while Hamilton would still be good enough defensively from preventing such a pairing from being a defensive liability (by contrast, Graves-Hamilton seems to me like it would lack a bit of back-end mobility).

 

You say that Jack Hughes and Dougie Hamilton are already developing chemistry (unless you’re talking about Luke?).   Now imagine Quinn Hughes to that fold.  The chemistry between Quinn, Jack, and Dougie.

 

If the Devils felt that they lacked an offense-defensive imbalance, they could move Ty Smith for a more defensive-oriented defenseman could they not?  PK Subban will also be coming off the books at the end of the season and so he could also be replaced with a more defensive minded defenseman next season.

 

Hamilton and Hughes are offensive Ds that even play a rover like game.  Both were paired with defensive Ds.  Hamilton with even one of the best defensive D in the game.  Hard to see how two highly offensive Ds paired together is going to make for a reliable pairing.

 

 

Edited September 29, 2021 by mll

[IBatch]

4 hours ago, GarthButcher5 said:

It is doable for sure. I think that with OEL and the emergence of the Bone of Wrath the Canucks can explore options on the back end to become more defensively sound and this looks like an option.

 

Only problem is when Jersey realizes that they will have to pay half of their cap to the three Hughes boys in about 3-4 years to keep them all together leaving 45 million to split between their other 18 team mates.

Well i guess they'd know who'd be picking up the cheque at team meal night ....