Are JP Barry's tactics affecting your opinion of Petey and Quinn?

[Mike Vanderhoek]

2 hours ago, King Heffy said:

I'm entirely blaming Barry.  That being said, I'm not opposed to trading someone in order to give Barry the message that his conduct isn't acceptable.

Agreed. Detriment to the team over this crap. It WILL screw up things with either player at some point early on this season.

[thrago]

The problem as I see it there is no fear on the players side that the Canucks will either trade them or just sit them for the year, which gives them way too much power in the negotiations.  I'm not a fan of greedy players or people in general so I'd be fine sending them off.  But we all know that wont happen for many reasons.

[grandmaster]

I wonder if there are teams that refuse to bring in players represented by agents like Barry. In this case the Canucks couldn’t have done much as both players were draft picks. When it comes to UFA’s, I would stay far away from players represented by Barry.

[Nuxfanabroad]

Don't worry about it too much. Mostly see pro sport as a rigged deck(to varying degrees). Players, agents, reffs, officials will all get their grubby lil fingers in that pie.

 

But I'll confess to nostalgia for the NHL game in the 70's & 80's. $ hadn't yet done(to the game) what was to come. Also winners/dynasties could come from either side of the border.

 

It was simply a LOT more fun, back then.

[King Heffy]

Just now, grandmaster said:

I wonder if there are teams that refuse to bring in players represented by agents like Barry. In this case the Canucks couldn’t have done much as both players were draft picks. When it comes to UFA’s, I would stay far away from players represented by Barry.

I'd be inclined to agree with you there.

[J.I.A.H.N]

1 minute ago, McBackup said:

There's definitely a line between criticizing a player's play, even harshly, and attacking them as a person. 

 

For example, I think someone is totally in the right to call Gudbranson for example a pylon and waste of a roster spot. When they start saying things like they're worthless people and a waste of life, that I don't understand.

I totally disagree

 

I think, most people have no idea, exactly how good a fringe NHL player is, how they are light years better than a regular guy off the street. 

 

I do not think you have to call the guy names, to make your point. I think the same on here, with some of the posters..........no need to be ignorant or rude!

[-AJ-]

I'm giving the players some breaks until the regular season and it depends on the contracts they end up with, but I think we have to always consider the fact that Brisson is paid by both Petey and Quinn--they ultimately have control over what happens with their contracts. Brisson is merely an intermediary. As much as I don't like Brisson, he's doing his job and if the players wanted to have team-friendly deals or play all 82 games this year, they have to force Brisson's hand, which they can do.

 

At the end of the day, either guy has to realize that they may end up either leaving Vancouver for a big payday or forcing the Canucks to be a worse team. If Petey signs for $9M a year, is he willing to accept that Hughes won't be on the team anymore? There is a cost to getting paid. Players on the Bruins said it in the past and Kesler also said it of the 2011 team--if you want to win, you need to be willing not to get top dollar. They have to decide what is ultimately most important to them. A payday (maybe not in Vancouver), or being on a competitive Canucks team.

[smokes]

So where is the blame on Benning? Benning taking his sweet time and takinging up cap space to sign fringe players instead of locking up your two best players when there was planty of cap space, Benning waited and caused this mess. I have been a Canucks fan my whole life and I have never seen a GM take so long on signing so many contracts. Previous GM's would have starting talking heavily during the season. Turing on Petey and Quinn is ninsensical, it it a GM and agent issue, they probably want to be in training camo too but these things are out of thier control. Especially since there hasn't even been rumours of contract discussions. 

[McBackup]

1 minute ago, J.I.A.H.N said:

I totally disagree

 

I think, most people have no idea, exactly how good a fringe NHL player is, how they are light years better than a regular guy off the street. 

 

I do not think you have to call the guy names, to make your point. I think the same on here, with some of the posters..........no need to be ignorant or rude!

Its relative though. We're talking about how good they are for what they're doing.

 

I guarantee you if you dropped me onto an Atom house team, I would look like the greatest player to ever lace them up. If you put me on the Canucks every single person on here would be screaming for me to get off the ice before they could spell 'N-H-L'. And thats exactly the point. It's fine to criticize someone's play, but if you're attacking them as a person, that's a different story.

[Bure_of_94]

8 minutes ago, grandmaster said:

I wonder if there are teams that refuse to bring in players represented by agents like Barry. In this case the Canucks couldn’t have done much as both players were draft picks. When it comes to UFA’s, I would stay far away from players represented by Barry.

Barry has 650M in contracts for 60 players. 
Brisson(who is Hughes and Petey’s agent) has 1.05 Billion in contracts for 54 players. 
 

 I think Benning would prefer to deal with Barry any day of the week over Brisson.

[McBackup]

10 minutes ago, smokes said:

So where is the blame on Benning? Benning taking his sweet time and takinging up cap space to sign fringe players instead of locking up your two best players when there was planty of cap space, Benning waited and caused this mess.

If Benning didn't sign those FAs when he did, we wouldn't have them at all. Thats how it works. You can wait to sign the players you retain the rights to because you still hold their rights. He signed the UFAs for what he did and budgeted what should be required for Hughes and Petey. If they're asking more than whats budgeted thats on them. The Canucks budgeted enough space to sign them both to fair contracts. 

 

Now if he had worked at signing them first, they would miss out on the FAs they signed because they would have gone to other teams. 

Edited September 30, 2021 by McBackup

[King Heffy]

3 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

I'm giving the players some breaks until the regular season and it depends on the contracts they end up with, but I think we have to always consider the fact that Brisson is paid by both Petey and Quinn--they ultimately have control over what happens with their contracts. Brisson is merely an intermediary. As much as I don't like Brisson, he's doing his job and if the players wanted to have team-friendly deals or play all 82 games this year, they have to force Brisson's hand, which they can do.

 

At the end of the day, either guy has to realize that they may end up either leaving Vancouver for a big payday or forcing the Canucks to be a worse team. If Petey signs for $9M a year, is he willing to accept that Hughes won't be on the team anymore? There is a cost to getting paid. Players on the Bruins said it in the past and Kesler also said it of the 2011 team--if you want to win, you need to be willing not to get top dollar. They have to decide what is ultimately most important to them. A payday (maybe not in Vancouver), or being on a competitive Canucks team.

And yet people crucified Kes for his trade request that was made for the same reason as his discount.  At the end of the day, I want guys who have winning as their top priority.

[grandmaster]

2 minutes ago, Bure_of_94 said:

Barry has 650M in contracts for 60 players. 
Brisson(who is Hughes and Petey’s agent) has 1.05 Billion in contracts for 54 players. 
 

 I think Benning would prefer to deal with Barry any day of the week over Brisson.

They both work for the same office and work together.

[King Heffy]

5 minutes ago, smokes said:

So where is the blame on Benning? Benning taking his sweet time and takinging up cap space to sign fringe players instead of locking up your two best players when there was planty of cap space, Benning waited and caused this mess. I have been a Canucks fan my whole life and I have never seen a GM take so long on signing so many contracts. Previous GM's would have starting talking heavily during the season. Turing on Petey and Quinn is ninsensical, it it a GM and agent issue, they probably want to be in training camo too but these things are out of thier control. Especially since there hasn't even been rumours of contract discussions. 

He would have had a lot more trouble making the deals to get cap space if they were signed.

[smokes]

1 minute ago, McBackup said:

If Benning didn't sign those FAs when he did, we wouldn't have them at all. Thats how it works. You can wait to sign the players you retain the rights to because you still hold their rights. He signed them for what he did and budgeted what should be required for Hughes and Petey. If they're asking more than whats budgeted thats on them. The Canucks budgeted enough space to sign them both to fair contracts. 

 

Now if he had worked at signing them first, they would miss out on the FAs they signed because they would have gone to other teams. 

See that's where I see things backwards. He should have tried to resign Petey and Quinn as early as possible so they know how much money they can spend on FA's after that. The period where Petey was injured would have been a time to talk about contract extensions, instead Benning waited and ended up going into a market where comparables skyrocketed in salary. 

[-AJ-]

Just now, King Heffy said:

And yet people crucified Kes for his trade request that was made for the same reason as his discount.  At the end of the day, I want guys who have winning as their top priority.

I think the key difference was that Kesler wanted to win regardless of where it was. For Kesler, I get the feeling the priority was 1. Winning 2/3. Money/Loyalty.

 

For guys like the Sedins (who maybe set an unrealistic standard), they prioritized loyalty first, winning second, and money last.

[smokes]

4 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

He would have had a lot more trouble making the deals to get cap space if they were signed.

Past GM's did that all the time because most of the time, the earlier you sign a restricted free agent like Petey or Quinn the cheaper you can get them for. Prices always rise, not fall. If he signed them earlier he could have got them at less than a cap hit than if he waited till now.

[Islandclarky]

It will be interesting just what the attitudes of these two very young players will be when or if they both come back. With only played in league  for  3 and 2 years will they be upset and pissy with only a 6 million  dollar a year raise for 3 years or  will they accept it pay your dues ,Excell for 3 years,show you can defend and play all situations and then ask for even huge dollars.As we are not in  the dressing room ,we can only imagine how the older players who are busting the ass to prepare for this season think of these two slight young men holding out for incredible amounts of money.  Their not Mackinnon. And Weber

[McBackup]

1 minute ago, smokes said:

See that's where I see things backwards. He should have tried to resign Petey and Quinn as early as possible so they know how much money they can spend on FA's after that. The period where Petey was injured would have been a time to talk about contract extensions, instead Benning waited and ended up going into a market where comparables skyrocketed in salary. 

Just like we don't know whats actually being discussed right now, we don't know what was being discussed then. We know they were talking as far back as January, maybe those discussions never went anywhere. Maybe the players wanted to focus on the season. Maybe they weren't in the mood for extension talks with the disaster of a season we were having. I doubt Benning just completely put off contract discussions with them until after all the UFAs had been signed.

[King Heffy]

2 minutes ago, smokes said:

See that's where I see things backwards. He should have tried to resign Petey and Quinn as early as possible so they know how much money they can spend on FA's after that. The period where Petey was injured would have been a time to talk about contract extensions, instead Benning waited and ended up going into a market where comparables skyrocketed in salary. 

Do you think he sheds Arizona's fourth line and Schmidt as easily if he does this?  The deals were both better than market value.

 

1 minute ago, -AJ- said:

I think the key difference was that Kesler wanted to win regardless of where it was. For Kesler, I get the feeling the priority was 1. Winning 2/3. Money/Loyalty.

 

For guys like the Sedins (who maybe set an unrealistic standard), they prioritized loyalty first, winning second, and money last.

I agree, but that's fine with me.  I suspect Petey likely has similar priorities to Kesler.