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[Waivers] 25 players - Oct. 02, 2021


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1 hour ago, Dazzle said:

I think we can pretty much say that Ron Francis is a clueless GM. What a disastrous expansion draft.

Yup, should have selected players he could flip for assets like Domi, Tarasenko, Dillon...the list goes on. Would suck to be a fan of the Kraken, I would almost guarantee there is 0 chance Seattle does anything close to Vegas in their inaugural season

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12 minutes ago, Canuckster86 said:

Yup, should have selected players he could flip for assets like Domi, Tarasenko, Dillon...the list goes on. Would suck to be a fan of the Kraken, I would almost guarantee there is 0 chance Seattle does anything close to Vegas in their inaugural season

Worst case is they'll play for your team. They tried to outthink everyone, and I loved how smug Francis seemed at the conference.

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On 10/2/2021 at 11:23 AM, Elias Pettersson said:

Isn't Cale Fleury the guy they took from Montreal?  What a brutal expansion draft.

 

And Connor Carrick is the guy they took from New Jersey.  Just waiting for them to waive Kole Lind.  That would be epic...

They drafted 30 players

it stands to reason they won't be able to protect them all.

the Vegas draft was an anomaly, where teams fell over themselves to make deals

Most expansion teams get loaded with 3rd liners and 5-6 defensemen

you can't keep them all and their trade value is not that great

the Canucks might have waived Lind too

that said, I have never been that high on Francis as a manager

Edited by lmm
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18 hours ago, Canuckster86 said:

Yup, should have selected players he could flip for assets like Domi, Tarasenko, Dillon...the list goes on. Would suck to be a fan of the Kraken, I would almost guarantee there is 0 chance Seattle does anything close to Vegas in their inaugural season

St Louis tried to trade Tarasenko this off-season and found no reasonable deal.  Why would Seattle do any better.

 

Domi had a poor season last year with only 24 pts and had off-season shoulder surgery.  Doubt there was much trade value there - they might have not been able to move him and he counts for 5.3M against the cap.

They had to take 3 goalies per expansion rules and took Vanecek to back up Driedger.  It was unexpected that Grubauer made it to market - Colorado was still negotiating with him and he was protected.  They were then able to trade Vanecek back to Washington for a 2nd round pick.

 

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3 hours ago, mll said:

St Louis tried to trade Tarasenko this off-season and found no reasonable deal.  Why would Seattle do any better.

 

Domi had a poor season last year with only 24 pts and had off-season shoulder surgery.  Doubt there was much trade value there - they might have not been able to move him and he counts for 5.3M against the cap.

They had to take 3 goalies per expansion rules and took Vanecek to back up Driedger.  It was unexpected that Grubauer made it to market - Colorado was still negotiating with him and he was protected.  They were then able to trade Vanecek back to Washington for a 2nd round pick.

 

Seattle took Bayreuther from CLB on July 21. A week later, Columbus signs him back, thus making the expansion pick completely pointless. Maybe there was a sweetheart deal with CLB not to pick anyone from their roster, but how does this help Seattle?

 

Francis sucked with his picks because he could've picked any one of the players, other than some journeyman defenseman. He could've picked Stenlund for example, who is a youngish center that could have been someone Seattle could use. That's just one example.

 

I also think Francis blundered in picking Lind lol. If you were a GM picking a player from the Canucks, would you really really pick a guy with 0 points in 7 games, granted that it was such a small sample? He's obviously in need of AHL time, so as an expansion team, you should take the best player available.

 

The problem is that you go back to the picks and you'll see that there's a theme with many of the expansion picks being utterly dreadful.

 

Not to mention that Francis appears to have soured relations with other GMs for picks. If you don't capitalize on the expansion draft itself, you may never get a chance to do it again.

 

I get that people are cautious about writing off Seattle because of Vegas, but seriously, you can't use that same logic in this expansion. There are some good picks like McCann (fairly obvious one) and Geekie. Giordano is a good player too, and there are several others that aren't bad. However, the remainder are really meh.

 

Edited by Dazzle
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3 hours ago, Dazzle said:

Seattle took Bayreuther from CLB on July 21. A week later, Columbus signs him back, thus making the expansion pick completely pointless. Maybe there was a sweetheart deal with CLB not to pick anyone from their roster, but how does this help Seattle?

 

Francis sucked with his picks because he could've picked any one of the players, other than some journeyman defenseman. He could've picked Stenlund for example, who is a youngish center that could have been someone Seattle could use. That's just one example.

 

I also think Francis blundered in picking Lind lol. If you were a GM picking a player from the Canucks, would you really really pick a guy with 0 points in 7 games, granted that it was such a small sample? He's obviously in need of AHL time, so as an expansion team, you should take the best player available.

 

The problem is that you go back to the picks and you'll see that there's a theme with many of the expansion picks being utterly dreadful.

 

Not to mention that Francis appears to have soured relations with other GMs for picks. If you don't capitalize on the expansion draft itself, you may never get a chance to do it again.

 

I get that people are cautious about writing off Seattle because of Vegas, but seriously, you can't use that same logic in this expansion. There are some good picks like McCann (fairly obvious one) and Geekie. Giordano is a good player too, and there are several others that aren't bad. However, the remainder are really meh.

 

 

Both teams had different philosophies going into the draft.  Vegas was focused 4-5 years down the road and were targeting futures and willing to weaponise their cap space.  Francis was focused on building a team.  It's not the same mindset.

 

People forget that the predictions for Vegas were really grim.  Karlsson, Haula were bottom of the lineup players for their previous teams (CBJ and MIN missed the boat there).  Neal had lost his spot on the top line to Arvidsson but was in the last year of his deal and could bring back a decent return at the TDL.  Idem for Perron.  Schmidt was labelled a D7 by Trotz who healthy scratched him for over 20 games.   Smith was a cap dump for Florida.  Garrisson a cap dump for Tampa. Etc.  

 

Their opening night lineup didn't look all that promising (in parenthesis the points their previous season).

 

Perron (46)  Eakin (12)  Neal (41)

Marchessault (51)  Haula (26)  Smith (37)

Karlsson (25)  Lindberg (20)  Leipsic (3)

Carrier (8) Bellemare (8)  Nosek (1)

 

Sbisa Schmidt

McNabb Engelland

Garrison Miller


Fleury / Subban

 

Vegas never expected to do that well in their opening season.  McPhee wanted a coach that could develop young players because they expected to be competitive only 4-5 years down the road.   After the draft pretty much everyone was available other than a select few like Tuch, Theodore, Fleury, etc.  They were trying to grab as many futures as possible and even accepted to take on LTIR contracts.

 

Vegas also drafted players who they lost for nothing.  Thorburn, Berube, Brickley went directly to free agency.  Pulkinnen, Reinhart were sent to the AHL and never recalled.

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On 10/2/2021 at 11:39 AM, Elias Pettersson said:

True but weren't there better options than to select Cale Fleury? 

.I don't know, who do you pick?

Available
Brandon Baddock (F)
Joseph Blandisi (F)
Paul Byron (F)
Phillip Danault (F)
Laurent Dauphin (F)
Jonathan Drouin (F)
Michael Frolik (F)
Charles Hudon (F)
Corey Perry (F)
Michael Pezzetta (F)
Eric Staal (F)
Tomas Tatar (F)
Lukas Vejdemo (F)
Jordan Weal (F)
Cale Fleury (D)
Erik Gustafsson (D)
Brett Kulak (D)
Jon Merrill (D)
Gustav Olofsson (D)
Xavier Ouellet (D)
Shea Weber (D)
Charlie Lindgren (G)
Michael McNiven (G)
Carey Price (G)

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3 minutes ago, lmm said:

.I don't know, who do you pick?

Available
Brandon Baddock (F)
Joseph Blandisi (F)
Paul Byron (F)
Phillip Danault (F)
Laurent Dauphin (F)
Jonathan Drouin (F)
Michael Frolik (F)
Charles Hudon (F)
Corey Perry (F)
Michael Pezzetta (F)
Eric Staal (F)
Tomas Tatar (F)
Lukas Vejdemo (F)
Jordan Weal (F)
Cale Fleury (D)
Erik Gustafsson (D)
Brett Kulak (D)
Jon Merrill (D)
Gustav Olofsson (D)
Xavier Ouellet (D)
Shea Weber (D)
Charlie Lindgren (G)
Michael McNiven (G)
Carey Price (G)

You tell them you are picking Carey Price and wait for Bergevin to call you back with a 2nd or 3rd round pick not to take him.  Same with Tarasenko.

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2 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

You tell them you are picking Carey Price and wait for Bergevin to call you back with a 2nd or 3rd round pick not to take him.  Same with Tarasenko.

or you pick Fleury. who is a 3rd rounder nearing NHL readiness, (isn't that what Jim was trading 2nds for early in his mandate?)

and you've got a guy who might be an NHLer this year or next

a 3rd rounder in 2021 or 22 isn't helpful til 2026

six of 1 half a dozen of the other if you ask me

Edited by lmm
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5 minutes ago, lmm said:

or you pick Fleury. who is a 3rd rounder nearing NHL readiness, (isn't that what Jim was trading 2nds for early in his mandate?)

and you've got a guy who might be an NHLer this year or next

a 3rd rounder in 2021 or 22 isn't helpful til 2026

six of 1 half a dozen of the other if you ask me

They could have bluffed on Price, collected the 3rd rounder and STILL picked Fleury.  Francis doesn't know how to play poker.  I guess McPhee learned how to play while living in Vegas...

Edited by Elias Pettersson
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3 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

You tell them you are picking Carey Price and wait for Bergevin to call you back with a 2nd or 3rd round pick not to take him.  Same with Tarasenko.

St Louis tried to trade Tarasenko this off-season given how contentious their relationship has become.  No success.  What makes you think Seattle could have done any better.

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39 minutes ago, mll said:

St Louis tried to trade Tarasenko this off-season given how contentious their relationship has become.  No success.  What makes you think Seattle could have done any better.

Depends what the offers were and if there was any salary retention.  The player they got from St. Louis, Vince Dunn, is actually one of their better choices so I guess there can be no complaints on that one.  Many other of their choices however are indeed head scratchers.

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8 hours ago, Nucksfollower1983 said:

seattle didnt have to trade him, could have just kept him.

Tarasenko is on his 3rd shoulder surgery.  It has impacted his goal scoring the past couple of seasons where he has also spent a lot of time on IR.  It's not yet really known whether the issue had been fixed and if he can regain his scoring touch - only 4 goals in 24 games last season after returning from his last surgery.  The season before he only played 10 games because of that shoulder issue.

 

He has a 7.5M cap hit for 2 seasons and a full NTC that would have travelled with him.  Can understand why they felt it was too big of a gamble.

  

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