bubba6 Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 3 minutes ago, Jtutino said: 4% of teens apparently and I think it would be hard to tell because we really don't know how many people have had covid. At the start of the pandemic they said to just stay home and self quarantine if you have symptoms. Only go to hospital if you have to. We have also started to hear that it was being spread a couple months prior to what we were first told so many could have had it even before it was in the news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 1 minute ago, gurn said: At least 236,000,000. https://www.covid-19canada.com/ And at least 4,800,000 of them died. I'm going to guess that is a much bigger number than the amount of people that got Myocarditis, let alone those that died of vaccine caused Myocarditis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanleyCupOneDay Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 1 hour ago, bubba6 said: From first hand experience (in my hospital at least) the issues are more to do with staffing shortages than Covid. Yes there are many covid positive cases but not in the way we are being told on TV. every patient is tested no matter what they are in the hospital for and a positive test does not equal a symptomatic case same for out in the general public when we test people for work or travel. as for this situation it "may" be getting blown out of proportion, as Myocarditis although rare, it is a side effect of many viral and bacterial infections it is most commonly found after a flu infection. Typically it will go away on its own after a couple of weeks, in extreme cases it can cause death or long term heart damage. I am not certain on the numbers but i would guess from experience that it is slightly more prevalent if not equal to the potential side effects of the Vaccines that cause the same complication. I would not jump to the conclusion that had he been vaccinated that the results wouldn't have been the same. The vaccination is not a cure or totally preventative option we still need to monitor and report our findings as far as positive cases and case outcomes appear in our healthcare system. The number of breakthrough cases are increasing as we increase the number of totally vaccinated individuals so we should at least have more concrete data in the coming months, as well as some more data on the long term effects of contracting covid as we continue to follow up and monitor many cases long after assumed full recovery has happened. people making the claim that he should have been vaccinated to prevent this are making just as uneducated of claims as antivaxxers claiming the jab will cause mass genocide (although we have zero long term data on the vaccines we do have an abundance of data on Myocarditis) First hand experience does not automatically mean that this is the case in all hospitals. Maybe it is for your local one and if so that’s great! It means those needing care can get it, but for the other hospitals where that’s not true it is a very serious issue. I am not certain on the data behind my claim that the vaccinated face equal if not more cases of myocarditis, but I’m going to mention it anyways is not a very convincing argument. You’re absolutely right on this one. We need to monitor the number of cases, the number of long haul cases and overall impacts from COVID. It’s really not, the data shows not only does it prevent hospitalizations and death, but it also lessens the ability for one to infect another if they have COVID. https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/vaccinated-people-are-less-likely-spread-covid-new-research-finds-n1280583 Of course Archibald very well could have developed the myocarditis condition (3.1m worldwide diagnosed in 2017 according to the myocarditis foundation https://www.myocarditisfoundation.org/about-myocarditis/ ) without having gotten COVID, but I think evidence points to the more likely answer that he got it as an effect after contracting the disease. We already know from mountains of research and clinical trials that vaccines protect the person from COVID infection at the 95%ish range. Therefore it is absolutely reasonable to say a vaccine could have prevented his current condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jtutino Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 2 minutes ago, gurn said: And at least 4,800,000 of them died. I'm going to guess that is a much bigger number than the amount of people that got Myocarditis, let alone those that died of vaccine caused Myocarditis. I agree but lets not pretend there arent some side effects. I'm double vaxxed and think anyone who can should be but after my first dose I had some side effects and consulted my doctor to make sure I was good for the 2nd dose and didnt have some condition I didn't know about. It's just sick how some people are wishing the anti vaxxers harm. They're just as bad. Some of these people aren't right in the head obviously. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanleyCupOneDay Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 1 hour ago, Jtutino said: The vaxx can actually cause mycrocarditis according to the cdc. You’re right and it also says most patients with myocarditis responded well to medicine and rest and felt better quickly. Next line says patients can usually return back to their normal daily activities after symptoms improve. So the majority of the minority who get this potential side effect after receiving a vaccine can get back to normal fairly quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanleyCupOneDay Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 (edited) 23 minutes ago, bubba6 said: I will try to find the studies so until i do take what i say with a grain of salt. but there have been a few studies suggesting a link to more severe adverse reactions from the Vaccines in people carrying Covid antibodies. I am still skeptical but having a basic understanding of the way these vaccines do what they do (not the standard way our other vaccinations work) there "could" be some real world explanations for these results. I’m always open to more data, it’s a new disease so we may not know everything. However that said I’m more likely to see the “vaccine gave me a side effect after contracting COVID” as an “I got COVID before my vaccine was able to fully protect me” situation and that they’re just experiencing bad COVID symptoms one of which is myocarditis. Edited October 5, 2021 by StanleyCupOneDay 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bad alice french Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, JM_ said: this again Does it matter to you in the slightest what the anti-vaxxers are doing to our hospital system? to our businesses? to kids in school? Its not about you, or just one person. I'd think by now that would have sunk in. My mom had surgery today in Vic. Business as usual. Place was quiet and orderly. Friend had surgery in Trail in June... same. Two friends are nurses in Comox and said Intensive Care/Covid not an issue but a little short staffed... this has always been the case. Not a single incident of Covid in my daughter's school since the beginning. My buddy went to emergency after a bike crash the other day... what do you know.. the same. All businesses here in town are fully operational and booming. Restaurants as well. I haven't missed a day of work through the entire pandemic... Get off the internet and take a look around. Edited October 5, 2021 by bad alice french 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzle Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 4 minutes ago, StanleyCupOneDay said: I’m always open to more data, it’s a new disease so we may not know everything. However that said I’m more likely to see the “vaccine gave me a side effect after contracting COVID” as an “I got COVID before my vaccine was able to fully protect me” situation and that they’re just experiencing bad COVID symptoms one of which is myocarditis. I had zero serious side effects as a double-shotted Pfizer patient. Am I lucky? The answer: No. https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/info-by-product/pfizer/reactogenicity.html If you're going to cherrypick data while ignoring the vast bulk of data, your research is flawed because it is opinion-driven. And opinions can be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 18 minutes ago, Jtutino said: I agree but lets not pretend there arent some side effects. I'm double vaxxed and think anyone who can should be but after my first dose I had some side effects and consulted my doctor to make sure I was good for the 2nd dose and didnt have some condition I didn't know about. It's just sick how some people are wishing the anti vaxxers harm. They're just as bad. Some of these people aren't right in the head obviously. I'm a utilitarian. If these idiots let Darwinism take its course, they aren't wasting valuable health resources that could be used for people whose brains actually function. That's a win. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bad alice french Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, King Heffy said: I'm a utilitarian. If these idiots let Darwinism take its course, they aren't wasting valuable health resources that could be used for people whose brains actually function. That's a win. It's an ideological issue. We all are what we are. Right or wrong. Edited October 5, 2021 by bad alice french Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanleyCupOneDay Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Jtutino said: I agree but lets not pretend there arent some side effects. I'm double vaxxed and think anyone who can should be but after my first dose I had some side effects and consulted my doctor to make sure I was good for the 2nd dose and didnt have some condition I didn't know about. It's just sick how some people are wishing the anti vaxxers harm. They're just as bad. Some of these people aren't right in the head obviously. Has anyone ever gave you a medication for any issue that doesn’t have potential negative side effects? Because I remember every commercial and prescription I’ve gotten be explained about the side effects, what to monitor and when to stop if things get really bad. We are all different human beings, we are wired differently, we’ve had different experiences and expecting perfection in any medicine 100% of the time is never achievable. That’s a false equivalence. When they themselves are not only wishing, but actively harming others by not protecting themselves is vastly different then someone writing words on the internet. They may say to hell with the unvaxxed, but in reality the vaccinated are actually doing more to protect them and their loved ones then they are doing for themselves. Words matter, but actions matter more. Edited October 5, 2021 by StanleyCupOneDay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzle Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 1 minute ago, bad alice french said: My mom had surgery today in Vic. Business as usual. Place was quiet and orderly. Friend had surgery in Trail in June... same. Two friends are nurses in Comox and said Intensive Care/Covid not an issue but a little short staffed... this has always been the case. My buddy went to emergency after a bike crash the other day... what do you know.. the same. All businesses here in town are fully operational and booming. Restaurants as well. I haven't missed a day of work through the entire pandemic... Get off the internet and take a look around. How about you get out of small towns and look around the bigger parts of Canada? https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/covid-19-overworked-b-c-nurses-emotionally-traumatized-by-third-wave-and-its-only-gotten-worse Head of B.C. Nurses Union says an estimated 60 per cent of nurses in the province showing ‘serious emotional distress leading up to early signs of PTSD’ More than a year into dealing with the COVID-19 pandemic, nurses in B.C. are already physically and emotionally exhausted as they face the third wave, says the president of the B.C. Nurses Union. Take the numbers with a grain of salt, but the fact that nurses are "overworked" should be considered. The way you're portraying COVID responses in hospitals makes it seem like COVID is no big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 1 minute ago, bad alice french said: It's an idealogical issue. We all are what we are. Right or wrong. And when people's ideologies cause harm to the general public, it is reasonable to expect some hostility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bad alice french Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 1 minute ago, Dazzle said: How about you get out of small towns and look around the bigger parts of Canada? https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/covid-19-overworked-b-c-nurses-emotionally-traumatized-by-third-wave-and-its-only-gotten-worse Head of B.C. Nurses Union says an estimated 60 per cent of nurses in the province showing ‘serious emotional distress leading up to early signs of PTSD’ More than a year into dealing with the COVID-19 pandemic, nurses in B.C. are already physically and emotionally exhausted as they face the third wave, says the president of the B.C. Nurses Union. Take the numbers with a grain of salt, but the fact that nurses are "overworked" should be considered. The way you're portraying COVID responses in hospitals makes it seem like COVID is no big deal. That's why I live where I live my friend. That's also why i'm choosing to not be vaccinated at this time. My family and I are active and healthy. I have faith in my own immune system to deal with the possibility of being infected. We have smaller and more like minded social circles and we don't travel. I'm grateful for all of this. To be clear I am totally pro choice and absolutely not a non vaxxer. What's right for some isn't always right for all. Simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanleyCupOneDay Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 3 minutes ago, bad alice french said: My mom had surgery today in Vic. Business as usual. Place was quiet and orderly. Friend had surgery in Trail in June... same. Two friends are nurses in Comox and said Intensive Care/Covid not an issue but a little short staffed... this has always been the case. Not a single incident of Covid in my daughter's school since the beginning. My buddy went to emergency after a bike crash the other day... what do you know.. the same. All businesses here in town are fully operational and booming. Restaurants as well. I haven't missed a day of work through the entire pandemic... Get off the internet and take a look around. The pandemic hasn’t effected me or others I know so it’s not a big deal. Another common argument. And again I’m happy that your areas aren’t dealing with people having problems accessing care or worse losing someone you loved. Meanwhile in an area you don’t know about: https://globalnews.ca/news/8214069/surgeries-postponed-interior-health-hospitals-officials/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bad alice french Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 3 minutes ago, King Heffy said: And when people's ideologies cause harm to the general public, it is reasonable to expect some hostility. Possibly and probably. Still Heffy, there is still no definitive right or wrong side to this dilemna. Only opinion and... here it is again... our given pre dispositions. pro gun/anti gun pro choice/anti abortion socialism/conservatism These debates will go on until the end of time. Where we stand on questions like these are what defines us and ideology is hard to change, maybe impossible. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bad alice french Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 4 minutes ago, StanleyCupOneDay said: The pandemic hasn’t effected me or others I know so it’s not a big deal. Another common argument. And again I’m happy that your areas aren’t dealing with people having problems accessing care or worse losing someone you loved. Meanwhile in an area you don’t know about: https://globalnews.ca/news/8214069/surgeries-postponed-interior-health-hospitals-officials/ Unfortunate. Sounds like the medical system needs work. Why were we so caught off guard by this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanleyCupOneDay Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 8 minutes ago, Dazzle said: I had zero serious side effects as a double-shotted Pfizer patient. Am I lucky? The answer: No. https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/info-by-product/pfizer/reactogenicity.html If you're going to cherrypick data while ignoring the vast bulk of data, your research is flawed because it is opinion-driven. And opinions can be wrong. I’m confused, I use data to form my opinions and new data can change my position. I was talking about the argument “I had COVID and then I took the vaccine and it caused a bad side effect”. There hasn’t been evidence to suggest that COVID antibodies create an adverse reaction when getting the vaccine. I think it’s more likely a case that for those who get bad COVID symptoms they got the vaccine too late to protect them. I could very well be wrong and if there’s substantial evidence I will re-evaluate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bad alice french Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 12 minutes ago, Dazzle said: How about you get out of small towns and look around the bigger parts of Canada? https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/covid-19-overworked-b-c-nurses-emotionally-traumatized-by-third-wave-and-its-only-gotten-worse Head of B.C. Nurses Union says an estimated 60 per cent of nurses in the province showing ‘serious emotional distress leading up to early signs of PTSD’ More than a year into dealing with the COVID-19 pandemic, nurses in B.C. are already physically and emotionally exhausted as they face the third wave, says the president of the B.C. Nurses Union. Take the numbers with a grain of salt, but the fact that nurses are "overworked" should be considered. The way you're portraying COVID responses in hospitals makes it seem like COVID is no big deal. Hey I know you have no idea who I am but I'm willing to bet that if we met each other we'd probably get along just fine. I'm an incredibally passionate and sensitive man. This thing is very serious and very much a big deal. Still we have to keep our opinions and views as balanced as possible and get a grip on certain realities that are here now and have been here before. This will go down as an historically challenging time for many in the health profession. Still, as much as we all want to cruise through life without incident, when you sign up to be a doctor our a nurse and something like this happens... it's going to be challenging. Still that's their job and we need to support them and be extremely thankful. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanleyCupOneDay Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 8 minutes ago, bad alice french said: That's why I live where I live my friend. That's also why i'm choosing to not be vaccinated at this time. My family and I are active and healthy. I have faith in my own immune system to deal with the possibility of being infected. We have smaller and more like minded social circles and we don't travel. I'm grateful for all of this. To be clear I am totally pro choice and absolutely not a non vaxxer. What's right for some isn't always right for all. Simple. If you choose not to get vaccinated then you are by choice anti-vax. I truly wish that this disease doesn’t come into your family or community, it can be a real eye opener. https://globalnews.ca/news/8216343/bc-mom-covid-unvaccinated-regret-hospital/ https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/04/fit-and-healthy-man-42-from-southport-who-rejected-vaccine-dies-of-covid 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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