[Report] Josh Archibald out indefinitely due to heart condition

[The Lock]

Anyway, I don't mean to lash out at people, but after all the personal news I've been hearing lately, I'm just done with people who pretend they're all about "free speech".

[Gurn]

1 hour ago, on the cycle said:

Those who choose safety over freedom deserve neither.

 

I'm a free speech absolutist

I'm a Libertarian

I will not stand for authoritarianism

I will not subject others to my will

 

You do not embody these principles.

logic failure, you want absolute free speech, which would subject those that don't want it, to your will.

[bubba6]

4 hours ago, gurn said:

People will be doing masters thesis's on this for years.

Trying to figure out the overlap between the anti vaxxers and the truly mentally ill, I'm positive there is some.

One thing that does lead me to this, is the way some people will say that covid was made in a lab, thus unnatural and designed to do damage.

Yet some of those will turn around and say their natural immunity will save them; from what they allege was a designed human killer.

They can believe that science created a killer, yet can't believe that science created a preventative measure.

The I'm special, my immunity  will protect me crowd seem borderline delusional. 

I'm special, not going to be part of the 2% of Canadians that die from covid, nor part of the covid long haulers; which is anywhere between 8-25 %.

So around a 1 in 4 chance, yet they are special.?

 

 

Question for you. How many peoples natural immune systems helped them beat Covid19 thus far pre vaccine? that number is not a delusion,  to call people anti vaxxers and mentally ill because they do not want a vaccination for a beatable virus is asinine. The Vaccine is really only relevant in rare cases of the most vulnerable the Science backs this up in 100's of studies world wide. I support the vaccine but not for young healthy individuals at least not yet because the data says otherwise at the moment.

 

[on the cycle]

2 hours ago, The Lock said:

Good for you? I honeslty do not care if you don't like me opinion since I don't care for your opinion either. I don't believe in authoritarianism but I also don't believe in people hiding behind free speech while killing others indirectly as a result. The fact that you need to associate what I said with "authoritarianism" shows just how extreme you have to go in order to make me sound bad. Yet, I said nothing about authoritarianism.

 

We'll have to agree to disaagree since I believe, those who would hide behind a facade of freedom while destroying others' liberties to live need to learn what freedom actually is. I will not believe you to be a "free speech absolutionist" while people around me are dying from that very mentality.

Well you're suggesting we limit freedom of speech which is an authoritarian action. So I will continue to call out anyone who says that.

 

I don't have to make you look bad, you're doing a good job making yourself look bad.

[on the cycle]

1 hour ago, gurn said:

logic failure, you want absolute free speech, which would subject those that don't want it, to your will.

Do you understand negative rights?

You do not have a right to limit others speech just because you don't like what they say. The only caveat is you cannot call for violence against others.

[The Lock]

22 minutes ago, on the cycle said:

Well you're suggesting we limit freedom of speech which is an authoritarian action. So I will continue to call out anyone who says that.

 

I don't have to make you look bad, you're doing a good job making yourself look bad.

Go ahead. Call out people who want justice against the ones who put themselves above everyone else, which is exactly what you are doing.

 

If this makes me look bad, this makes you look 1000x worse.

 

Your wanting of freedom is fake.

Edited October 5, 2021 by The Lock

[The Lock]

24 minutes ago, on the cycle said:

Do you understand negative rights?

You do not have a right to limit others speech just because you don't like what they say. The only caveat is you cannot call for violence against others.

Yet, not taking a vaccine and killing others as a result is any better? Is picoting hospitals and blocking people from the ER any better?

 

You talk about absolute freedom.... well your freedom would call for violence against others.

Edited October 5, 2021 by The Lock

[Gurn]

1 hour ago, bubba6 said:

  to call people anti vaxxers and mentally ill because they do not want a vaccination for a beatable virus is asinine.

I suggest you re read what I've said, then work on the bit posted directly above; try to clean it up so people can understand you.

[on the cycle]

33 minutes ago, The Lock said:

Yet, not taking a vaccine and killing others as a result is any better? Is picoting hospitals and blocking people from the ER any better?

 

You talk about absolute freedom.... well your freedom would call for violence against others.

You aren't making any sense.

If you have the vaccine (Like I do!) you are very protected against covid and in regards to children they are almost entirely unaffected (Thankfully!)

 

Blocking an ER or any public service is not classified as freedom of speech and those people doing that should be removed. I wasn't saying that at all.

However everyone should be able to peacefully protest and say the opinion even if they are incorrect.

 

BTW as I've already said I am very pro vaccine. I have pre existing respiratory

conditions so I was more than happy to get vaccinated.

 

[Gurn]

1 hour ago, on the cycle said:

Do you understand negative rights?

You do not have a right to limit others speech just because you don't like what they say. The only caveat is you cannot call for violence against others.

All I get is you are entrenched, in forcing how you want free speech to work, on others. Also your bit about "calling for violence" is not the only  caveat so you might wish to re look at the Charter in regards to what is "Freedom of Expression" up here in Canada

[on the cycle]

1 minute ago, gurn said:

All I get is you are entrenched, in forcing how you want free speech to work, on others. Also your bit about "calling for violence" is not the only  caveat so you might wish to re look at the Charter in regards to what is "Freedom of Expression" up here in Canada

I'm not citing the garbage canadian charter. I'm citing the US first amendment as a model of absolute freedom of speech, I was advocating my ideals.

[The Lock]

2 minutes ago, on the cycle said:

You aren't making any sense.

If you have the vaccine (Like I do!) you are very protected against covid and in regards to children they are almost entirely unaffected (Thankfully!)

 

Blocking an ER or any public service is not classified as freedom of speech and those people doing that should be removed. I wasn't saying that at all.

However everyone should be able to peacefully protest and say the opinion even if they are incorrect.

 

BTW as I've already said I am very pro vaccine. I have pre existing respiratory

conditions so I was more than happy to get vaccinated.

 

But people are using blocking hospitals and using "freedom of speech" as their instrument. Also, people's opinions (or at least the actions from their opinions) in this case are literally killing others. How then is me being against those people authoritarian when you yourself just declassified what I am against as not being freedom of speech?

[on the cycle]

1 minute ago, The Lock said:

But people are using blocking hospitals and using "freedom of speech" as their instrument. Also, people's opinions (or at least the actions from their opinions) in this case are literally killing others. How then is me being against those people authoritarian when you yourself just declassified what I am against as not being freedom of speech?

You cannot cause physical harm.

I am for people freely expressing themselves in a peaceful manner.

 

So no I do not agree with blocking infrastructure. There are many anti vaxxers not blocking or being violent and they should be allowed to express their opinions in peaceful protest.

 

I have never and will never classify violence or blocking people from critical infrastructure as free speech.

 

I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend your right to say it.

[BlueDragon23]

As far as I see it, it’s your choice. You are free to choose to not get vaccinated, but you are not free of the consequences of it. 
 

I don’t have any sympathy for anti-vaxxers considering the horrible stories I’ve heard from the front lines. It’s your own damn fault if you end up hospitalized with COVID. 

[JM_]

2 hours ago, bubba6 said:

Question for you. How many peoples natural immune systems helped them beat Covid19 thus far pre vaccine? that number is not a delusion,  to call people anti vaxxers and mentally ill because they do not want a vaccination for a beatable virus is asinine. The Vaccine is really only relevant in rare cases of the most vulnerable the Science backs this up in 100's of studies world wide. I support the vaccine but not for young healthy individuals at least not yet because the data says otherwise at the moment.

 

you know, this post makes me really doubt you are a hospital worker.

[kilgore]

On 10/5/2021 at 11:10 AM, on the cycle said:

Those who choose safety over freedom deserve neither.

 

I'm a free speech absolutist

I'm a Libertarian

I will not stand for authoritarianism

I will not subject others to my will

 

You do not embody these principles.

 

"Those who choose safety over freedom deserve neither."

So you are that character in shows and movies that always runs outside in the Zombie apocalypse shouting "freedom!"

 

To be a modern day "Libertarian" is a joke. Even more than being an "Anarchist". At least anarchists know that if they got their way society would crumble, and it would be a dystopian every-person-for-themselves world.  That's what they want.

 

If libertarians got what they wanted....it would end up the same, a Mad Max world with no rules or laws. And they'd still end up losing their prepper bunker to a gang of young punks. 

 

You don't want no taxes...so no money for infrastructure, police, hospitals etc..and ESPECIALLY if there comes a worldwide pandemic.  No gob'mint authoritarian laws or mandates.  No asking medical experts for their opinions, because you wouldn't accept their views anyways if the authorities....who were voted into power in an act of free speech from voters.......agreed and tried to implement them.  What other body is capable of organizing and vaccinating the entire population in such an emergency? At least the non deluded ones? Who better than in the hands of those in our community who run for office and are elected by, in most cases, a majority in your area?  That IS the government. 

 

And yet...libertarians are happy to, or at least see the reasoning of, abiding by authoritarian government traffic laws.  Stop signs, cross walks, even seat belts. They choose safety over freedom.   If someone breaks into their home, they call the tax supported police to help them. If someone rips them off, they are happy to use the authority of the court system to get their money back.  Thats why I respect anarchists before libertarians. The hypocrisy, and that they really haven't thought things out about how exactly their libertarian utopia would work.

 

You will not subject others to your will?

lol.  Every time you go unvaccinated among the rest of the population you are subjecting your fellow Canadian to an unnecessary risk of lingering illness, and possible death. All because your "will" is more important than anyone elses.  That is not a form of political philosophy, thats just a soup mix of ignorance, fear, and selfishness. 

 

Sorry, I've had it with this anti-vaxer entitlement attitude.  I could stomach it for months, for a year even. I was counting on this being over by the end of Summer. But after the Delta variant reeked havoc and started a whole new wave, all the ICUs full so responsible Canadians couldn't get their other elected surgeries done, harassing the hero workers on the front lines of our hospitals, our venues continuing to have to limit attendances, and that I STILL have to wear this fricken mask all the dam time so laggards and fools can stay healthy, knowing that the more that get vaccinated, the quicker we will come out of this.  I've had it up to here.

 

 

 

[kloubek]

On 10/5/2021 at 2:35 PM, bubba6 said:

Question for you. How many peoples natural immune systems helped them beat Covid19 thus far pre vaccine? that number is not a delusion,  to call people anti vaxxers and mentally ill because they do not want a vaccination for a beatable virus is asinine. The Vaccine is really only relevant in rare cases of the most vulnerable the Science backs this up in 100's of studies world wide. I support the vaccine but not for young healthy individuals at least not yet because the data says otherwise at the moment.

 

Lots of people have beaten covid, and yes - most younger, healthier people will likely come out of it relatively unscathed. They also have natural immunity for a while, which is fantastic. This absolutely needs to be considered in the approach of our government and society when combating the virus and the subsequent restrictions and actions as a result.

 

But to say the vaccine is only relevant in "rare cases" is simply false. To say this is "beatable" as a generality is also false. The older one gets and the more health complications they have (especially immuno-compromised and respiratory deficient), the greater their chances of serious symptoms or death. However, it isn't so black and white. You aren't perfectly healthy and going to have a 100% chance of making it through OR you are doing to die from it because you're old or have prior ailments. There are some 4 billion "in betweens" which you aren't considering.

CDC has stats on their website as far as age is concerned. Now, one would guess that as one ages, they are going to have more ailments, so I consider this data to encompass both as it pertains to Covid death. Inherently factored in is also the fact that older people die more often than younger people naturally. So just because older people might have covid, it doesn't necessarily mean Covid actually killed them. As a result, these stats are likely slightly skewed to show older people get affected more.

 

Anyway:

 

Age      Covid Deaths in USA
0-17     499
18-29   3739
30-39   10872
40-49   27172
50-64   122500
65-74   157673
75-84   185180
85+      193317.

 

So what we can see here is that kids are very resilient to this virus. Even those under 30 tend to fare very well. We start to see more and more die as age goes up - and once we hit 50+, it really picks up. So let's say that it only becomes typically relevant once someone hits 50. The average life expectancy in the USA is 79 years. That means about 35-40% of people really NEED this vaccine. To me, that isn't "rare" at all. And to me, over 700,000 people dead in one single country doesn't sound particularly "beatable" either.

...and this is just picking out protection against actual deaths. It says nothing in regards to the vaccine reducing general spread to these higher-risk segments, or those who might gain lifelong complications as a result of the toll Covid had on their bodies.

To be fair, the vaccines are not perfect. There have been 8,164 reported deaths against 390+ million vaccinations in the USA. This includes people who just happened to die inside 2 weeks from getting the jab - regardless of whether it was what actually killed them or not. (While not completely accurate, that tends to be how they measure covid deaths as well so it's only fair).  Anyway, that's .0021%. I'll leave you to do your own research as to Covid's fatality rate, which varies depending on who you talk to and whether that region has access to medical care of not. (Including due to overflowing ICUs). To me, that is the number that needs to be measured against the deaths happening from Covid. So, I could see an argument to be had about not vaccinating children. But once one ages, the logical choice becomes pretty clear.

Edited October 6, 2021 by kloubek

[MeanSeanBean]

On 10/5/2021 at 3:47 PM, JM_ said:

you know, this post makes me really doubt you are a hospital worker.

Absolutely zero chance. No professional with an understanding of how this pandemic it going down would say these things.

Edited October 7, 2021 by Shayster007

[JM_]

7 hours ago, Shayster007 said:

Absolutely zero chance. No professional with an understanding of how this pandemic it going down would say these things.

we have one or two people on here continually making new accounts and trying new angles to spread doubts about vaccines and other covid issues. He/she is one sick puppy.

[MeanSeanBean]

1 hour ago, JM_ said:

we have one or two people on here continually making new accounts and trying new angles to spread doubts about vaccines and other covid issues. He/she is one sick puppy.

Yeah, you can usually get an idea because it's generally the same very small handful of people who upvote all their posts as well. No doubt in my mind this is some troll account. Normally I would just try to ignore it and move on until the account goes away, but this is straight up dangerous miss information that needs to be shut down.