Junkyard Dog Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 4 hours ago, JM_ said: ugh. So what's the right thing to do then? Tougher judges, more serious sentences when it comes to gang and gun violence, a better task force for dealing with illegal goods(easier said than done) would probably be better than banning certain weapons. Overall you want to find ways to deter these kind of people from using guns the way we don’t want to see. I don’t own guns myself but I don’t see how banning legally owned guns accomplishes lessening gun violence as much as we would like to think. You could ban guns entirely and it would likely make a minimal impact. Solutions are hard to come by. Even the things I suggested are easier said than done and work in theory. Even if we create better deterrents we won’t know how much of an impact it will make. These people that smuggled these weapons(among other illegal goods) are smart, wealthy, find ways around and are usually a step ahead of the curve. It would take a lot of money/resources and individuals smarter than you or I on the matter to combat this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkyard Dog Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 The biggest issue and unique issue we have with guns compared to other countries is that we share the worlds largest border with a certain country down south It’s hard to compare us with other countries when it comes to gun/gang violence with the US right there. We’re forever tied with them to a degree. An unshakable and unfortunate influence. It’s uniqueness is what makes it such a difficult issue to resolve up here. In Toronto in a 2020 report at least 85% of illegal guns seized were traced back to the US. There’s no shortage of illegal firearms in the US. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 9 hours ago, Mossberg said: I'm not really sure. Carding worked pretty good in Toronto before mayor Tory scrapped it. One of the first things Trudeau did was get rid of mandatory minimum for gun crimes. Weak judges letting gang members out on bail, even for murder. unfortunately mandatory minimums turned out to be unconstitutional, thats why it was scrapped. 9 hours ago, Mossberg said: We have to have more enforcement on the entry points of smuggled goods, stiffer sentences and actually keep them in jail we they are convicted, even if it offends some people. Maybe spend some money on programs run by ex gang bangers trying to convince people the problems and consiquences of gang life. I don't know how to stop gang violence but what I do know is spending billions of dollars attacking law abiding guns owners (who statistically commit crimes 1/3 as much as ordinary people) is not gonna make canadians any safer. Just a waste of money that we don't have. I doubt Justin even thinks it will slow gun crime he just knows it will get him votes from people in the big cities who don't like guns and don't know much about them. PS Jimmy I really don't think it's gonna cost 400 million like they said. Depends what they "buy back" it could be billions. Remember the long gun registry was supposed to cost 2 million and that turned into over 2 billion if I recall correctly I do think part of the problem is an unnecessary fight between rural and urban folks, which only serves the interests of various political groups and not gun owners or people in the city. Trudeau's policies might be useless but so are O'Toole's, both want to whip up fear and/or anger tor their "side" but in reality its just a vote grab either way. Rural gun owners do have the problem of convincing the majority tho, which may not be fair but it is what it is. So when someone says something like "we're legal gun owners" no reasonable person in the city is suggesting otherwise or thinks rural use is the problem, people in the city know its a gang issue and not some farmer, e.g. It would be good to have some kind of town hall where the political divisiveness could be set aside and people who are effected by the issue can try to figure out actual solutions instead of vote grabbing slogans. I don't believe anyone in the gun lobby has the right idea either, if they did we would have heard it by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 5 minutes ago, JM_ said: unfortunately mandatory minimums turned out to be unconstitutional, thats why it was scrapped. I do think part of the problem is an unnecessary fight between rural and urban folks, which only serves the interests of various political groups and not gun owners or people in the city. Trudeau's policies might be useless but so are O'Toole's, both want to whip up fear and/or anger tor their "side" but in reality its just a vote grab either way. Rural gun owners do have the problem of convincing the majority tho, which may not be fair but it is what it is. So when someone says something like "we're legal gun owners" no reasonable person in the city is suggesting otherwise or thinks rural use is the problem, people in the city know its a gang issue and not some farmer, e.g. It would be good to have some kind of town hall where the political divisiveness could be set aside and people who are effected by the issue can try to figure out actual solutions instead of vote grabbing slogans. I don't believe anyone in the gun lobby has the right idea either, if they did we would have heard it by now. Very simple solution: No citizen (other than police) need hand guns. The only firearm a citizen should legally be able to own is a hunting rifle. Police find a person in possession of a hand gun, and its serious jail time. Commit a crime with any firearm, and it’s throw away the key time. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 8 hours ago, Junkyard Dog said: Tougher judges, more serious sentences when it comes to gang and gun violence, a better task force for dealing with illegal goods(easier said than done) would probably be better than banning certain weapons. Overall you want to find ways to deter these kind of people from using guns the way we don’t want to see. I don’t own guns myself but I don’t see how banning legally owned guns accomplishes lessening gun violence as much as we would like to think. You could ban guns entirely and it would likely make a minimal impact. Solutions are hard to come by. Even the things I suggested are easier said than done and work in theory. Even if we create better deterrents we won’t know how much of an impact it will make. These people that smuggled these weapons(among other illegal goods) are smart, wealthy, find ways around and are usually a step ahead of the curve. It would take a lot of money/resources and individuals smarter than you or I on the matter to combat this. I don't think we can rely on judges to solve this one for us. We already have a good licensing system for legal gun owners. I'd argue that a database is a good idea to help trace some gun crimes, but no one will likely go down that road again. It seems to matter more who has a gun, vs the type of gun when it comes to crime: https://www.bu.edu/articles/2019/state-gun-laws-that-reduce-gun-deaths/ The biggest issue is the flow of guns from the US, that would seem to be where we should focus most of our effort, but we want to make sure that we don't forget about closing the loop on domestic supply either. If we are actually able to curb some illegal imports, criminals will try to exploit any weakness in our domestic system too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 4 minutes ago, Alflives said: Very simple solution: No citizen (other than police) need hand guns. The only firearm a citizen should legally be able to own is a hunting rifle. Police find a person in possession of a hand gun, and its serious jail time. Commit a crime with any firearm, and it’s throw away the key time. Do you think most current gun owners would agree with this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, Alflives said: Very simple solution: No citizen (other than police) need hand guns. The only firearm a citizen should legally be able to own is a hunting rifle. Police find a person in possession of a hand gun, and its serious jail time. Commit a crime with any firearm, and it’s throw away the key time. This won't fly at all. The last time anything like this was attempted, gun owners were told to register their guns. The government were literally getting registries on items such as nail guns and glue guns due to people against the regulation. The one thing I do agree with though is that tougher sentences have been needed in Canada for a long time. Other than that, this is not a simple solution at all. This also doesn't at all solve the problem of gang members having guns smuggled across the border. It would effectively be a needless regulation that doesn't even solve the problem. Edited October 12, 2021 by The Lock 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 11 hours ago, Junkyard Dog said: The biggest issue and unique issue we have with guns compared to other countries is that we share the worlds largest border with a certain country down south It’s hard to compare us with other countries when it comes to gun/gang violence with the US right there. We’re forever tied with them to a degree. An unshakable and unfortunate influence. It’s uniqueness is what makes it such a difficult issue to resolve up here. In Toronto in a 2020 report at least 85% of illegal guns seized were traced back to the US. There’s no shortage of illegal firearms in the US. See, I wish parites would actually address this actual issue with the border, rather than spewing random stuff about buying back guns which essentially does nothing. During the election, I heard almost nothing but random promises that either, a) were going to happen anyway or b) don't solve a damn thing... and this was from ALL the parties which was the most disappointing part. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnarcore Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, Alflives said: Very simple solution: No citizen (other than police) need hand guns. The only firearm a citizen should legally be able to own is a hunting rifle. Police find a person in possession of a hand gun, and its serious jail time. Commit a crime with any firearm, and it’s throw away the key time. You're just wrong/ill informed/uninformed here on everything but stiff punishments for illegal guns. Edited October 12, 2021 by Gnarcore 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 Wish the media would stop calling them gangsters. They wear that title with pride. Even between everyday people, referring to something/someone as 'gangster' often is a positive. Just call them murderers, attempted murderers, pathetic criminals.....I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Luck Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 10 hours ago, Alflives said: Very simple solution: No citizen (other than police) need hand guns. The only firearm a citizen should legally be able to own is a hunting rifle. Police find a person in possession of a hand gun, and its serious jail time. Commit a crime with any firearm, and it’s throw away the key time. You have no idea what you are talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Luck Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 11 hours ago, JM_ said: unfortunately mandatory minimums turned out to be unconstitutional, thats why it was scrapped. I do think part of the problem is an unnecessary fight between rural and urban folks, which only serves the interests of various political groups and not gun owners or people in the city. Trudeau's policies might be useless but so are O'Toole's, both want to whip up fear and/or anger tor their "side" but in reality its just a vote grab either way. Rural gun owners do have the problem of convincing the majority tho, which may not be fair but it is what it is. So when someone says something like "we're legal gun owners" no reasonable person in the city is suggesting otherwise or thinks rural use is the problem, people in the city know its a gang issue and not some farmer, e.g. It would be good to have some kind of town hall where the political divisiveness could be set aside and people who are effected by the issue can try to figure out actual solutions instead of vote grabbing slogans. I don't believe anyone in the gun lobby has the right idea either, if they did we would have heard it by now. Mandatory minimums weren't the issue. It is these far left idiot judges that are able to give life to criminals for some crimes as per the Criminal Code but they choose to give them 4 years or find them not criminally responsible. Does anyone hear actually think that mental case on the bus in Winnipeg that cut the other bus passengers head off and ate it should not have gone to jail for life? Jail or a mental institution. Either one....but he should of been locked up forever. But nope...not in this weak country. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38945061 This isn't gun related but the same principal applies. Let our weak judges know they need to send criminals away forever. Maybe that will deter a bit. But the biggest part is getting all these illegal guns being sent up from the states seized. Legal gun owners have been hammered by the idiot trudeau. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 58 minutes ago, Canuck Luck said: Mandatory minimums weren't the issue. It is these far left idiot judges that are able to give life to criminals for some crimes as per the Criminal Code but they choose to give them 4 years or find them not criminally responsible. Does anyone hear actually think that mental case on the bus in Winnipeg that cut the other bus passengers head off and ate it should not have gone to jail for life? Jail or a mental institution. Either one....but he should of been locked up forever. But nope...not in this weak country. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38945061 This isn't gun related but the same principal applies. Let our weak judges know they need to send criminals away forever. Maybe that will deter a bit. But the biggest part is getting all these illegal guns being sent up from the states seized. Legal gun owners have been hammered by the idiot trudeau. its not that simple though. Its not just up to judges, they didn't make the decision give that guy day passes, e.g. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucksfollower1983 Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 (edited) On 10/11/2021 at 5:53 PM, JM_ said: ugh. So what's the right thing to do then? If you have that intelligence and can prove it then target the source and don't worry about pissing people off in the process? Edited October 13, 2021 by Nucksfollower1983 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnarcore Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 On 10/12/2021 at 7:19 AM, JM_ said: unfortunately mandatory minimums turned out to be unconstitutional, thats why it was scrapped. Actually that was a good thing. Because when they were put in they were mostly targeted at the wrong things. Petty weed and small drug crimes were hit but many violent crimes and white collar was just left alone. Typical social conservative nonsense that was to be expected under Harpoon. His changes to the prison system in general won't help either. He had goals of private prisons, no rehabilitation, increased recidivism (educational programs were taken away and libraries decimated. This included law libraries.) and you have to wonder who was invested in such an enterprise and his and the party's motivation. I am all for stiffer penalties for many crimes but stop targeting the poor with pissant drug charges. Go after mass scale fraud, distribution of drugs, violent crimes in furtherance of other crimes, sex crimes and domestic abuse of children and partners. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBH1926 Posted October 13, 2021 Author Share Posted October 13, 2021 (edited) 21 hours ago, JM_ said: its not that simple though. Its not just up to judges, they didn't make the decision give that guy day passes, e.g. To be fair, when he got the day passes to go to Winnipeg and later on when he got paroled. He did promise the authorities that he will take his medication, gave them Scout’s honor to be exact. What I want to know is since he was born in China, why wasn’t his citizenship revoked and he got sent packing. Edited October 13, 2021 by CBH1926 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 10 minutes ago, CBH1926 said: To be fair, when he got the day passes to go to Winnipeg and later on when he got paroled. He did promise the authorities that he will take his medication, gave them Scout’s honor to be exact. What I want to know is since he was born in China, why wasn’t his citizenship revoked and he got sent packing. we don't do that up here, unless he lied on his application. I know, I see the irony. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 23 minutes ago, Gnarcore said: Actually that was a good thing. Because when they were put in they were mostly targeted at the wrong things. Petty weed and small drug crimes were hit but many violent crimes and white collar was just left alone. Typical social conservative nonsense that was to be expected under Harpoon. His changes to the prison system in general won't help either. He had goals of private prisons, no rehabilitation, increased recidivism (educational programs were taken away and libraries decimated. This included law libraries.) and you have to wonder who was invested in such an enterprise and his and the party's motivation. I am all for stiffer penalties for many crimes but stop targeting the poor with pissant drug charges. Go after mass scale fraud, distribution of drugs, violent crimes in furtherance of other crimes, sex crimes and domestic abuse of children and partners. yeah I totally agree with this. I would like to see decriminalization of personal possession and use for all drugs, and begin a safe supply program to cut off the fentanyl dealers. Just take the market away and get people a clean supply and help. As far as gun crime goes, I don't think gang kids care at all about more jail time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beni Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 On 10/9/2021 at 3:37 PM, Alflives said: And because of our restrictions (.which should be more) we have less shootings in a year than US cities like Chicago has in a long weekend. What exactly does a citizen need a hand gun for? Hunting rifle, okay, but hand guns? Thinking that more laws will stop crime is Delusional. There are many uses for Handguns. Guess who aren't the ones committing the crimes? Legal gun owners Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldoescobar Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 (edited) I dont think this is a left or right issue or a gun control issue. Edited October 14, 2021 by Ronaldoescobar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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