With the premature departure of Juolevi - do you still think JB is a drafting genius?

[RU SERIOUS]

After the most recent failure & departure of yet another 1st Round pick ( Yo-Levi ), this following another 1st Round failure and deportation of Jake "The Ripper" to Siberia and the 2019 give away of yet another 1st round pick for Miller, do you still believe that Uncle Jim is a drafting genius and can be trusted to properly handle this years 2022 1st round pick?

 

Edited October 11, 2021 by RU SERIOUS
Typo

[Ghostsof1915]

Right now I don't know what to think. 

 

Reserve judgement for the first 20 games. 

[bishopshodan]

4 minutes ago, RU SERIOUS said:

After the most recent failure & departure of yet another 1st Round pick ( Yo-Levi ), this following another 1st Round failure with Jake "The Ripper" and the 2019 give away of yet another 1st round pick for Miller, do you still belive that Uncle Jim is a drafting genious and can be trusted to properly handle this years 2022 1st round pick?

 

A drafting what now?

[Where's Wellwood]

The Miller trade ended up beyond worth it. Our leading scorer over the last two years for a 20th pick

 

 

[RU SERIOUS]

2 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

A drafting what now?

Thanks - typo fixed !  You're a Genius!

[tas]

that question wasn't loaded at all. 

[Rindiculous]

I think Jim Benning did not have a good grasp on the job until after 2016, but after that he got more confident in his job making more off the board decisions that media, fans, and other GMs thought were the wrong pick, however trusted in him and his advisors knowledge and look how it’s worked out since then.  I don’t believe there’s been a move since the 2016 draft that has turned out poorly for Benning.  He had a rough start, but he’s become very good at his job especially evaluating amateur and pro talent.

 

Ive never had more faith in Jim’s skills, however I still don’t know about Green.  Him and his systems may or may not be NHL worthy.

Edited October 11, 2021 by Rindiculous

[King Heffy]

Good drafter who's grown into the position, but he's hampered by an incompetent coaching staff, similar to when Burke exposed Scott Walker for the ED against his better judgement.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

15 minutes ago, Where's Wellwood said:

The Miller trade ended up beyond worth it. Our leading scorer over the last two years for a 20th pick

 

 

Bear in mind Boeser was a 23rd overall pick himself & at the time of the trade, we didn't know what position the Canucks would be drafting (pick wasn't lottery pick protected).  Benning took a calculated risk & it worked out.

 

As to the question of the thread, no GM "hits" on every 1st round pick.  OJ not working out for us isn't remotely sufficient proof Benning isn't a good drafter (as Hughes, EP, Demko, and Boeser are great rebuttals points).

Edited October 11, 2021 by NewbieCanuckFan

[Mike Vanderhoek]

I think he has with the collaboration with his staff been able to find some nice players in later rounds. I don't like moving Juolevi at this time but like that a right handed defenseman who can play all-round and has better skating and dare I say conditioning in Juulsen. I like giving Juulsen on the right side an opportunity but still feel Juolevi will be a very dependable defenseman when its all said and done.

 

As for moving higher picks as the years have gone on I think the trades have been a saw off but Miller was an over the top win. Again I like that the team finds better players in the later rounds and if you go through the teams in the NHL over the past several seasons the Canucks are at or a shade above average when it comes to drafting player who play in the NHL. Not worried.

[bishopshodan]

I think this GM has put together a good squad and we will be a force to reckon with. 

[I.Am.Ironman]

It may be premature to call his departure premature. Nobody knows.

[drummer4now]

I think he just got lucky with some of his picks… no different if Gillis was at the helm.

 

Only advantage he had over Gillis was having higher draft placement in deeper drafts a couple of times. 

[khay]

First criteria for me is how many first rounders he has hit.

 

Except in 2016, he's found an NHLer with every first round pick that he held from 2014-2019. So he passes the first criteria.

 

Then, the second criteria is, given the draft position, did he pick a player below, at, or above the level of player expected?

 

2014: JV was a failure in that regard. McCann is on par -- Boston just did well with Pasta at 25.

2015: First line winger, so he exceed the expectation with Boeser.

2016: Failed.

2017: Drafted a superstar, who was ranked below 5th overall.

2018: Drafted a superstar (a bit of a luck but QH's size was considered an issue by some pundits).

2019: Looks like Podz will be a solid top 6 winger or the very least, a top 9 so that's about par with 10th overall pick.

 

So that's 3 times (EP, QH, BB) that he's done better than expectation, 2 times that he's been about par (McCann and Podz), and 2 times where he failed (JV, OJ).

 

Then, I look at the later round picks.

 

I would expect one NHL player picked in the 2nd or later rounds in about every 2 drafts.

 

2014: Demko and Forsling.

2015: Gaudette.

2016: Lockwood is close.

2017: Rathbone. MDP is probably close too.

2018: No one yet.

2019: Hoglander.

 

3 players (Demko, Rathbone, and Hoglander) remain with the team at the NHL level, over 6 drafts so I think he's done well there too with potential to hit more with Lockwood and MDP.

 

I think someone acutely mentioned this in another thread but I don't think drafting is the problem, but maybe there is an issue with player development.

 

For example, Gaudette had plenty of upside as a scorer but somehow we couldn't help him develop defensive side of his game in the AHL.

 

OJ was obviously hampered by injuries but I think he is another example of failed development in regards to injury rehab and etc.

 

JV and McCann were mishandled to some degrees. 

 

Except Demko, there's really no one that has come through our system in North America. 

 

EP, Hog, and Podz developed in Europe largely independent from the Canucks.

 

Hughes, Boeser, and even Rathbone came NHL ready from college hockey.

 

We will see how things go with MDP, Woo, and Lockwood.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[bishopshodan]

2 minutes ago, drummer4now said:

I think he just got lucky with some of his picks… no different if Gillis was at the helm.

 

Only advantage he had over Gillis was having higher draft placement in deeper drafts a couple of times. 

Gillis took almost got us the cup. This guy might get the job done. 

 

 

[Crabcakes]

Juolevi didn't turn up to his first camp prepared and I'm not sure he ever understood what it took to be an NHL player.  His post bag skate lay down was pathetic and made him look weak in front of coaches and players and fans.  He really needed to have a good summer and show up to camp and make an impression. 

 

He made an impression alright and it's off to Florida for him.

 

You never know what you're really going to get when you draft a 17 year old.  They're coached to do well in interviews.  Some of them clearly have it easy as kids because they don't have the drive to make it in the toughest league in the world.  If you've got a guy with the wrong mindset, and it doesn't change, then you've got to ship him out because you don't win cups with players like this.

 

Good luck Ollie.  Hopefully this is the kick in the rear he needs. 

[drummer4now]

6 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

Gillis took almost got us the cup. This guy might get the job done. 

 

 

Well this guy has a lot pressure on him because he needs to win multiple President trophies including one game 7 SCF match.. anything below that would be regarded as not even close or a failure… now if he won the cup he is god. 
 

I think we are seeing time run out for ol Jimbo.. 

 

 

We will see between this season and the next. 

[EliasSkywalker]

8 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

As to the question of the thread, no GM "hits" on every 1st round pick.  OJ not working out for us isn't remotely sufficient proof Benning isn't a good drafter (as Hughes, EP, Demko, and Boeser are great rebuttals points).

this. 

A first round pick is no guarantee of NHL success. There are lots of GMs who have draft busts.  Imagine being the Ottawa Senators GM Randy Sexton who picked Alexandre Daigle first overall, the next "guaranteed superstar" according to the press.  I do think that OJ's injuries (which JB couldn't have predicted) have also hurt his career upside.  But if a GM's overall success rate with picks beats the odds most of the time, then I wouldn't label him a poor drafter.

[bishopshodan]

9 minutes ago, drummer4now said:

Well this guy has a lot pressure on him because he needs to win multiple President trophies including one game 7 SCF match.. anything below that would be regarded as not even close or a failure… now if he won the cup he is god. 
 

I think we are seeing time run out for ol Jimbo.. 

 

 

We will see between this season and the next. 

I liked Gillis too.

 

[MystifyNCrucify]

Are you trying to spell generous or genius? 

 

I have a hard time taking any topic seriously, when you cant even take two seconds to google the correct spelling for the key word in the title. 

 

Im just going to assume you put the same effort into whatever brain shart you splattered into what is likely a big run on sentence wall of text, and save myself some brain cells by not bothering to “read” it.