AK_19 Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 (edited) I don't think Joulevi failing as a prospect can really be blamed on Benning. By the scouting reports themselves, one of Joulevi's strengths was his mobility and skating. However, it was clearly his biggest weaknesses at camp. The only thing that can explain the drastic difference in his skating has to do with his injuries. Nobody has a crystal ball guys. Virtanen I blame 100% on Benning, Joulevi was just unlucky. Edited October 11, 2021 by AK_19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancaster Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 Lets not forget, Juolevi was one of the "Big 3 Finns" of the draft year. That depending on positional need, any of them could be chosen over the other. Olli being ranked #6, JB didn't take a long-shot with it. It wasn't like he like Burke and was drafting Bryan Allen or anything. I was never disappointed with the pick, but I always thought they should have draft Tkachuk... just because I thought his offensive skills and style of player would be able to extend the productiveness of the Sedins for many more years. That if the Canucks main defensive need was an offensive defenseman. They have pretty good 2-way defenseman in Alex Edler who was still in his prime, 2 very good prospects at the time in Ben Hutton and Nikita Tryamkin, Chris Tanev being a stalwart on defense and Sbisa supposedly on the cusp of being an impact player. But... there's no offense-first defenseman and there hasn't been one since Ehrhoff left town. Since Chychrun was also supposed to be competing to the #1 overall that draft, I would have assumed that the Canucks would pick him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceman64 Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 4 hours ago, Crabcakes said: Juolevi didn't turn up to his first camp prepared and I'm not sure he ever understood what it took to be an NHL player. His post bag skate lay down was pathetic and made him look weak in front of coaches and players and fans. He really needed to have a good summer and show up to camp and make an impression. He made an impression alright and it's off to Florida for him. You never know what you're really going to get when you draft a 17 year old. They're coached to do well in interviews. Some of them clearly have it easy as kids because they don't have the drive to make it in the toughest league in the world. If you've got a guy with the wrong mindset, and it doesn't change, then you've got to ship him out because you don't win cups with players like this. Good luck Ollie. Hopefully this is the kick in the rear he needs. Actually a kick in the rear might not be enough, after being injured, he lost mobility and some he probably may never get back and being able to pivot can only be overcome to a certain degree by positioning but not all the time which is just as bad as attitude (or lack of it) in his case.. In my mind this was a no brainer move by JB, got another player who is bigger, faster, more physical that we need and a good passer who can help on the PK until we get out systems down and play better in it, we'll certainly need that out of Lammikko and he's got experience so an easy pick for some help on the PK until the penalties start to drop. Juulsen? Imo could do with some more experience to get better but Rathbone simply out everythinged OJ, end of story... Nothing wrong with this move at all.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Patel Bure Posted October 11, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted October 11, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, AV. said: Well, that's easy to answer: success on the ice. One GM took over a team - one that had missed the playoffs 2/3 seasons prior - and propelled them to multiple division titles, PTs, a SCF run. This doesn't happen by accident. Good decisions in pro-scouting facilitate that. The other GM took over a team that, yes, had it's best days behind them, but, all these years later, has yet to do anything of substance with that same team on the ice. There are other reasons that fans have a rightful disapproval of Benning, but when your team doesn't win games, you aren't gonna win over a fanbase. [] One GM inherited Henrik, Daniel, Luongo, Kesler, Edler, Hansen, Bieksa, Grabner, Raymond, and Schneider. The "missed the playoffs 2/3 seasons prior" is also a very weak supporting argument because the Canucks were briefly re-tooling at the time (i.e. shifting from the WCE era to the Sedin era that was ready to take over). That's not to take away from Gillis, as Gillis did a great job of bringing in guys like Torres, Erhoff, Malhottra, Samuelson, Sundin, Demitra, etc. to supplement our core, but you also have to realize that bringing in top UFA's at discounted contracts is a FAR easier task when your team is perceived to be sharply trending upwards as the Canucks were. Unfortunately, Gillis' regime couldn't draft worth a lick and so this is one of the reasons why our team completely fell off a cliff in 2014, before experiencing a dead cat bounce in 2015 (thanks to Benning ;-)). "all these years has yet to do anything of substance." LOL. You're definitely an HF Canucks poster. What's your handle over there eh? So Benning hasn't done anything of substance on the ice eh?..........like defeating the defending Stanley Cup champions in the first round of the 2020 playoffs per se? Getting within one game of the 3rd round? Guys like Pettersson, Hughes, and Boeser all knocked on the doors of the Calder. Dude - all teams go through a rebuild. 2015: 1st round appearance / 1996 1st round appearance 2016: DNQ / 1997 DNQ 2017: DNQ / 1998 DNQ 2018: DNQ / 1999 DNQ 2019: DNQ / 2000 DNQ 2020: 2nd round appearance / 2001: 1st round appearance (Sweep) 2021: DNQ / 1st round appearance / 2002: 1st round appearance Like most posters on HF, The Athletic, etc., you are pretending that the 2015 and 2020 playoffs did not occur because it does not suit your narrative. 2015 was all because of Gillis, and 2020 was all because of Judd Bracket, Jacob Markstrom, and Chris Tanev, and so you guys are trying to pretend like these things never occurred. During our rebuild, Benning has done what most teams are expected to do during a rebuild: 1) Established a new core 2) Drafted and developed a first line Center (Pettersson) 3) Drafted and developed a starting goaltender (Demko) 4) Drafted and developed a 1st pairing calibre defensemen (Hughes) 5) Drafted and developed a 1st line winger (Boeser) 6) Developed a leader and 2nd Line center (Horvat) 7) Drafted and developed supplementary pieces (Hoglander, Rathbone, and Podkolzin) 8) Used assets to help supplement the core nucleus (Miller, OEL, Garland). 9) May have some more pieces in the pipeline such as Woo, Klimovich, Lockwood, Dipietro, etc. Since 2013, the Canucks, on average, have brought in at least relevant drafted prospect onto their roster (Horvat, Demko, Boeser, Pettersson, Rathbone, Hughes, Hoglander, Podkolzin). Even their failed drafted and/or developed prospects within their system (Hutton, Virtanen, Tryamkin, and Gaudette) all played at least one full season here and were given ample opportunities to succeed (excluding Tryamkin, the aforementioned players played at least two years here). Look at other teams and show me a team that "rebuilt" more quickly and more effectively. If you want to know what a true rebuild looks like, then I suggest you shut off your playstation, and actually study real life organizations. Have a look at Tampa Bay's journey since 2004. Was their journey completely linear? What about Colorado since about 2008? How long did the Islanders, Hurricanes, and Panthers struggle for? Oilers, Flames, Jets/Thrashers? How many playoff series' has Toronto won since 2004? Get some perspective buddy. Sheesh..... Edited October 11, 2021 by Patel Bure 1 1 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locke Lamora Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 Gotta admit the spelling of “genious” in the thread title made me chuckle. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceman64 Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 25 minutes ago, AK_19 said: I don't think Joulevi failing as a prospect can really be blamed on Benning. By the scouting reports themselves, one of Joulevi's strengths was his mobility and skating. However, it was clearly his biggest weaknesses at camp. The only thing that can explain the drastic difference in his skating has to do with his injuries. Nobody has a crystal ball guys. Virtanen I blame 100% on Benning, Joulevi was just unlucky. You blame someone for what's in someone else's head and especially that of a potential power forward? that's one of the hardest positions to fill with a guy who has tamed himself just enough to be that guy who knows how to play and exactly when to pick battles and if you think that's easy with the kind of attitude it takes and then be honed perfectly by self control, seriously if you think it's just that easy you'd be a fool.. I'll point to a young mark messier, who at first played like a bull in a china shop, dumb penalty after another until WG was yelling in his face at times giving him a WTF were you thinking, sadly JV never got there as seldom prospects do.. so again if you think it's easy and just blame someone for taking a chance which is the same for any prospect not named Gretz McD etc, that's just being... well not thinking the whole picture out enough.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vancan2233 Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 4 hours ago, drummer4now said: I think he just got lucky with some of his picks… no different if Gillis was at the helm. Only advantage he had over Gillis was having higher draft placement in deeper drafts a couple of times. By that logic no GM is good at drafting just lucky. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownUndaCanuck Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 I still don't hate the Juolevi pick, he's just been super unlucky with injuries and hasn't panned out. The worst thing is that I think we haven't managed him well and IMO given him a decent chance whereas Rathbone slots straight in. This is more the coaching problem. Not many other teams would develop a top 10 pick defenceman slowly, get him playing full time AHL minutes and then the season that he could break into the NHL, trade him for fodder at his lowest value. I think JBs hand was forced by how the coaches messed up. I stand by the pick for the most part - he's what we needed at the time (remember we had just picked Virtanen so didn't need a top 6 tough guy, and were desperately thin on the blueline in terms of prospects). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alienhuggyflow Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 5 hours ago, RU SERIOUS said: After the most recent failure & departure of yet another 1st Round pick ( Yo-Levi ), this following another 1st Round failure and deportation of Jake "The Ripper" to Siberia and the 2019 give away of yet another 1st round pick for Miller, do you still belive that Uncle Jim is a drafting genius and can be trusted to properly handle this years 2022 1st round pick? I gotta say this place is getting as bad as the other place lately. The amount of posters that only post when there is any type of chance to spew negativity makes it hard to be a fan of this team. No GM is ever perfect but the one thing that is absolutely paramount when rebuilding is getting a1c, 1d, 1g and high-end wingers. The rest is all abundant and can be acquired in different ways. The fact that he got all those without ever having a top-four pick makes up for the misses in 2016 and 2014 IMO. Look around at what other value teams have gotten in the other rounds compared to some of the hits he's hit on. As for trading picks, JT and Garland are quality players that will be more valuable to this core than a #21 that ended up being a Dman that is year's away and a winger who most likely ends up as a good player in 3-5 years. It's not like they were moved for pieces of crap or to create cap space. He has made mistakes but what is the point of whining over spilled milk ? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabid Rooster Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 Losing OJ is a heartbreaking decision, and untimely. Just as he was showing poise, confidence and injury free we trade him for finnished players. I’m not sure who pushed for this but I’m thinking Green. Virt may have been a bust no matter where he played, but Green hated him as well. Sad really. 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patel Bure Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 1 hour ago, vancan2233 said: By that logic no GM is good at drafting just lucky. HF Canucks’ Melvin actually believes this, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanucks25 Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 lol "still" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wai_lai416 Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 what i'm starting to see is our prospect pool is starting to be pretty bare i don't care what anyone else say.. we don't have any surefire looking prospect left and i'm not high on any of the prospect we currently have.. i mean the best prospect we had left last year other than podz couldn't even crack the seattle kraken's line up lol. we have been trading away a lot of draft picks lately i'm just wondering wth do we even have left to trade when this team is ready to actually compete? gillis traded away lots of picks and prospect during his years but the team was actually competing all those years.. right now we are trading away a bunch of picks and prospect but we are not even actually competing yet.. with our prospect pool pretty much empty of anything significant.. when we do need to make a big trade for a rental or 2 for the playoff.. that means we have to throw in even more draft picks since we don't have prospects.. i wonder how this is going to setup for the next GM. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timråfan Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 9 hours ago, Where's Wellwood said: The Miller trade ended up beyond worth it. Our leading scorer over the last two years for a 20th pick Anyone who plays with Petey get a bonus. Miller without Petey isn’t first line. You can put Motte with Petey and he would have score similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phat Fingers Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 Feed the trolls. Yup. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ajax- Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 13 hours ago, King Heffy said: Good drafter who's grown into the position, but he's hampered by an incompetent coaching staff, similar to when Burke exposed Scott Walker for the ED against his better judgement. Really, Really really we all understand you do not like the coaching staff, wait no you HATE green and company But to use every single post to rant on and on about it is pathetic in my honest opinion I was going to suggest giving it a rest for 10 games to see how the team is doing, but haters going to hate no matter what Go Canucks Go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ajax- Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 4 hours ago, wai_lai416 said: what i'm starting to see is our prospect pool is starting to be pretty bare i don't care what anyone else say.. we don't have any surefire looking prospect left and i'm not high on any of the prospect we currently have.. i mean the best prospect we had left last year other than podz couldn't even crack the seattle kraken's line up lol. we have been trading away a lot of draft picks lately i'm just wondering wth do we even have left to trade when this team is ready to actually compete? gillis traded away lots of picks and prospect during his years but the team was actually competing all those years.. right now we are trading away a bunch of picks and prospect but we are not even actually competing yet.. with our prospect pool pretty much empty of anything significant.. when we do need to make a big trade for a rental or 2 for the playoff.. that means we have to throw in even more draft picks since we don't have prospects.. i wonder how this is going to setup for the next GM. what are you talking about? right now we are trading picks? good lord, get excited about the season opener 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ajax- Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 7 hours ago, Rabid Rooster said: Losing OJ is a heartbreaking decision, and untimely. Just as he was showing poise, confidence and injury free we trade him for finnished players. I’m not sure who pushed for this but I’m thinking Green. Virt may have been a bust no matter where he played, but Green hated him as well. Sad really. We did not loose him we traded him. not heartbreaking. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ajax- Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 7 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said: I still don't hate the Juolevi pick, he's just been super unlucky with injuries and hasn't panned out. The worst thing is that I think we haven't managed him well and IMO given him a decent chance whereas Rathbone slots straight in. This is more the coaching problem. Not many other teams would develop a top 10 pick defenceman slowly, get him playing full time AHL minutes and then the season that he could break into the NHL, trade him for fodder at his lowest value. I think JBs hand was forced by how the coaches messed up. I stand by the pick for the most part - he's what we needed at the time (remember we had just picked Virtanen so didn't need a top 6 tough guy, and were desperately thin on the blueline in terms of prospects). I love it, you turned a topic of GM drafting into a coaching problem 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 13 hours ago, RU SERIOUS said: Thanks - typo fixed ! You're a Genius! Typo? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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